Stupid question but would Ken Clarke's CU have solved the border issue in Ireland?
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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The EU has nothing to back down from. The UK isn't being pushed out: it wants out. The EU has made it clear that the UK can revoke A50 at any time and stay. There would be no negotiations, nothing.
And your 'long term legal framework' is called the Treaty of Lisbon. It is all there.
No. The only country that is not not in the EEA and is in a Custom's Union with the EU is Turkey. Here is the border between Turkey and the EU (Bulgaria)
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So the UK hasn't had to give up any territoty to the EU then.
It's a Saxon word anyway, isn't it?
As far as I'm aware we haven't given Gibraltar to Spain and were we to remain in the EU, the EU would keep itself out of that dispute as it would be a neutral party. Were the UK to leave the EU, the EU would of course take the EU member's side, as you would expect if it were Spain the one threatening to leave the EU instead.
Instead of prophecy, shall we talk about facts? What British territories does the EU expect the UK give up?
Who the EU is supposed to be in your scenario? Because for the rest of us, if you are a member states of the EU, you are the EU.
As far as I know, the Anglia form is Latin. The original Saxon is Angeln.
You seem to be making the same mistake a lot of folk do - that the EU is some monolithic structure with which we negotiate but to which we do not belong. It's simply not the case - rather the EU is the result of negotiations between equal (and unequal) partners and the mechanism through which further negotiations between these partners take place. We are a powerful member of the EU.
The relationship you are describing is the one we will have post departure (and as demonstrated right now during negotiations to depart).
Yep, poor old Britain being asked for territory...that'd be a fucking travesty, wouldn't it.
OK, no prophecy then none. But as long as they keep that up and respect that, I'm good. If I can be assured it wouldn't get any worse, I have no complaints.
In theory yes, but I always feel this 'special agreement' keeps things a bit frosty during negotiations.
Actually, I have always personally felt that if we really must remain we should probably join the Euro and fully align our laws with EU etc etc. I have never been a fan of this 'some parts in, some parts out' kind of relationship that we have had for the last many years.
This 'special agreement' creates a public perception (on both sides) that the UK thinks it is better not being part of the EU. This is not helpful and goes partly to answering the reason why there is a deep rooted suspicion of the EU from the British public.
But that's a different argument for another time.
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This is good/catchy.
Throughout my short stay in the UK I voted for the staunchest Remainer parties there was available and in favour of remain. So I guess I care about the Irish border more then the majority of British people and a big chunk of the Northern Irish who still keep the DUP in control
Having said that we live in dangerous times. Our borders are threatened by Russia, the US president openly hates the EU and populism is raising its ugly head almost everywhere in the world. Thus the last thing the EU needs is to allow an unreliable member who hates the EU and is master in the divide and rule tactics to retain its membership and therefore its VETO. The EU is in dire need of reform which include more integration in issues such as security. We can't and we shouldn't keep a country who would probably sell us down the river either to try and appease Trump or just because it can.
I am not against a deal quite the contrary. However its evident that the UK doesn't want one. They dragged their feet throughout the past 2 years and when they finally agreed on a deal they couldn't pass it through parliament because of something they wanted in the first place (the backstop). So seriously, should we risk ruining the EU project, the same EU project that made Europe prosperous and peaceful for decades for some pipe dream?
PS I am not against offering some sort of temporary deal that safeguard the GFA up until we can agree a more permanent deal (the WA is all about that) However we simply can't allow such unreliable partner to retain its veto and to represent himself in the EU parliament. That would be madness.
@pocco
If I hated the British then I would have voted for Brexit as that was the surest way to damage the UK in numerous ways. Which isn't the case. However please understand that I am in no mood to see my country and the majority of Europe being dragged into chaos because of the clowns you voted in at Westminster.
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Non Angli, sed angeli.
Opt outs aren't special agreements, they are treaty based and unilaterally there are no negotiations about them. And again the EU isn't a foreign entity, the UK are the EU, this is the issue with some british they still don't understand that they are the EU.
Whoever voted for Brexit knew that the GFA would be at risk and those who insist on a no deal Brexit including those who voted against removing a no deal Brexit off the table simply do not care about the GFA at all. The same can be said about those who are voting against the WA which seem to be one of the very few viable ways for the UK to leave the EU in an orderly manner and in total respect of the GFA.
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Yes but the more stuff you opt-out from, the less aligned you are with the EU surely? And the UK opts out of quite a lot. That brings problems during negotiations for continued membership.
If anyone is wondering why it's so important to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland, this is well worth a watch.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0003n65/border-country-when-ireland-was-divided
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0003n65/border-country-when-ireland-was-divided
It's actually bizarre how the Irish border/backstop was the main focus for a good while a couple of months back and has barely been mentioned since.
Do people think that just ignoring the problem will make it go away?
Do people think that just ignoring the problem will make it go away?
There are no negotiations for continued membership, that's not a thing. The opt outs aren't fundamental, they don't really affect much, so no there are no alignment issues.
Of course it's a damn thing. It's what started this shitstorm to begin with.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_United_Kingdom_renegotiation_of_European_Union_membership
Well not quite. And this is one of the biggest problems, people voted totally ignorant of the complexities of it. so really they didnt know it would be at risk cos it was never put at the forefront of things. The GFA was an afterthought in all this. I dont recall anyone mentioning it, or the difficulties around it that Brexit would pose pre-referendum.
The light only came on well down the line after the referendum.
Mate, that renegotiation was instigated and sought by the UK itself in addition to its already continuing membersip. If the UK had failed in those negotiations it would have failed to change the terms of its membership but would in no way have undermined membership itself - which is not up for negotiation.
If they weren't then they were ignorant and they shouldn't have had any business coming anywhere close to the voting poll. I knew about it and I wasn't British. Having said that, while ignorance might sort of justify then Brexit vote it certainly do not justify the clowns in parliament who keep insisting on a no deal brexit or against the withdrawal agreement/second referendum. That also include the Northern Irish who still stick to the DUP.
I don't mind an extension to article 50 past the 12th April IF the UK was willing to give some sort of direction to were things are going. But that's not the case. They keep saying No to everything from a second vote to the Withdrawal agreement. Thus I don't think its fair that the entire continent has to wait for these un elected bureaucrats (ie none of us in the continent had voted for) to decide our fate.
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This is not a thing. It wasn't a negotiation linked to membership but propositions made by the UK, some concerned everyone others only the UK, the latter were out of the EU framework. This had no impact on the UK's membership unless the UK unilaterally decided to leave the EU.
So what actually happens now? I mean there's not support for anything.
The current default position is No Deal on April 12th so that's currently where we're heading.
I don't agree with everything he's saying but I don't see how he's "going strong with anti-British rhetoric" just for giving his opinion on how the EU should respond to Britains behaviour during this ordeal. Nothing he has said about the way in which Britain have conducted their business is untrue.
I'm also not sure of the relevance of the second part of your sentence? 99% of Manchester United supporters are from outside Britain and I'd imagine, the majority of members on this website follow suit.
Brexit discussion, opinion and impact is not a British only affair. If it was, we'd have left you adrift to it years ago.
It was barely mentioned as part of the leave debates as they pushed we'd get a deal and without knowing what that deal was no one could argue much further.
Let's not forget the likes of Farage sold this whole thing on some pie in the sky and leaned towards the Norway model. Only now do they pretend it was always no deal.
Chill out mate. The British people are responsible for the shitstorm at the end of the day.
I agree. In my opinion another extension shouldnt be granted. It really is time to just end this once and for all.
In reality though I dont see it happening. While the EU probably arent in favour per se of another extension I can see them granting one but a very long one this time and probably for the simple reason that it would give space for a full and proper discussion in the UK to determine if this is truly what they want.
Oh yes, that's right. I remember the conditional extensions now. Well, good luck with that.
This is what I wouldn't like to see happening. I don't mind giving the UK a sort of temporary EEA deal which would safeguard the GFA just the same. However the VETO and any influence the UK has within the EU parliament must go at this point in time.
My initial idea of 2027 doesn't sound that crazy anymore. I thought that the UK and the EU needed to make the all thing as painless as possible and that the best way to do it was to set the No Deal deadline after the next EU budget period by 2027 everyone will know where it stands and how to move forward.
And all the people who voted to leave will be dead by then anyway so I'm all for it.
The idea of a 2 year hard end date was always a foolish one. They should have it rolling and if they need to put a stop to it to protect EU interests then a 12 month notification timeframe.
I currently reside in Canada and plan to get permanent residence so hopefully I'll be ok.Oh yes, that's right. I remember the conditional extensions now. Well, good luck with that.
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