I don't know the British media so do you think the shareholders of media companies want a Brexit?
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I don't know the British media so do you think the shareholders of media companies want a Brexit?
The only project fear was the Turkish invasion and all the other lies from Leave. The cake and eat it was just impossible and still is, Mr Corbyn.
Project fear for a no deal departure will become reality if the UK leave with no deal. There's no escape from that and it definitely isn't nonsense.
People who work two hours a week are counted as "employed" and someone is here quoting lowest unemployment in decades. Absolute nonsense.
farage said that in the event of it not going the way he wants he’d move abroad. Let’s hope so, though not sure how that’d work out for him with ‘abroad’ being full of the people he doesn’t like
It'll be 5 million within the next half-an-hour.
Democracy is about asking the electorate questions about leadership on a regular basis.
A single referendum, and all the monomania that's ensued, is no more democratic than North Korea.
Democracy is about asking the electorate questions about leadership on a regular basis.
A single referendum, and all the monomania that's ensued, is no more democratic than North Korea.
I was surprised yesterday when a couple of Sky newsreaders announced they had both stocked up their house ready for shortages. I know chatting bollocks is part of their job, but they seemed genuine.
So, I haven't stocked up a jot, but maybe I'm out of line, what have the boys and girls of RedCafe done, has anyone already filled their cupboards ready for doomsday?
So, I haven't stocked up a jot, but maybe I'm out of line, what have the boys and girls of RedCafe done, has anyone already filled their cupboards ready for doomsday?
Said before and I’ll say again, the damage is already done. Even if UK were to somehow remain, big business will not trust that it won’t happen again a few years down the line. They will start looking at stability in other EU countries
Aye, even if the UK remained, the level of euroscepticim and British exceptionalism within the country (and particularly the political class) would remain too. In other words they'd continue to be a pain to deal with as far as the EU is concerned, especially as relationships between both sides have only deteriorated as a result of Brexit. Bah.
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Agreed, we should do best of 5, first to win 3 referendums is a true winner
As opposed to the 56 General Elections we've had in this country?Agreed, we should do best of 5, first to win 3 referendums is a true winner
Yeah, it's laughable. Let's just keep the Whigs in for ever and ever.
Democracy is not about a single snapshot of public opinion. It's a regular temperature gauge of how the people believe the country is being/should be run.
Brexit was too big a choice to left to a single vote., particularly when there are at least 3 stages to be concerned with (leaving, the nature of the breakup and nature of our relationship with non-EU countries). Each stage has a knock-on effect to the next one. So at the very least, there should be another referendum to ask whether we're on the course that 2016 promised.
Most newspapers (and trash that masquerades as newspaper) are money loosing businesses these days. They are kept alive to preserve their influence for those owning them. The owners of the Telegraph, Sun, Times, and Sunday Times (last 3 are all Murdoch) are all on record as pro Brexit.
They are no longer businesses in the traditional sense (they won't make money again, ever, by themselves), they are propaganda outlets for corporations with an agenda.
Yep, most of them will have drawn up plans, assessed feasibility already.
What a complete shitshow this has become.
I'm fed up reading comments like, "out means out" or "leave means leave".
Nobody seems to have any idea what they're talking about.
And this Lisbon treaty bollox has been rolled out again this week which is some sort of fake news as it was activated years ago.
I'm fed up reading comments like, "out means out" or "leave means leave".
Nobody seems to have any idea what they're talking about.
And this Lisbon treaty bollox has been rolled out again this week which is some sort of fake news as it was activated years ago.
@RedTillI'mDead demonstrating the Dunning-Kruger effect in spectacular form in the last page or so. You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about but you’re parroting the official Tory lines with total confidence.
Even if the numbers on a zero hour contract are relatively small, I think what's important to note more than job figures is job security. As we increasingly move towards automation and as we largely live in an economic setup where people are disposable in an instant as companies make cut, what you end up finding is that people still have a lot of anxiety and face uncertainty because jobs are no longer anywhere near as stable as they once were. You're a lot more liable to have to move from job to job than you were in the past - jobs for life are largely things of the past. Couple that with, say, rent increases and difficulties when it comes to getting a house, and the general chances people have to achieve stability aren't as great as they were before.
Even as someone who thinks Brexit is incredibly fecking stupid, I don't think a lot of the PV types do themselves any favours.
If one talks of shortages people think you're being overdramatic and scaremongering and all the rest.
If there is a no deal, things that were taken for granted will be different. Nobody knows to what extent but it won't be the same as before but certainly fresh produce will be affected, food wise. You can't stock up on fresh produce.
What makes even less sense is that people say there may be an initial shock but unless things change back to how they were, the initial shock would be continuous. It's not suddenly going to go away.
Furthermore until it happens most people think everything will carry on as normal. I've no idea why.
Yeah I know. Everything from the very start until now is beyond ridiculous. There should have been more options in referendum in the first place because as you say, you can leave EU in a lot of different ways. Leave campaign was mostly based on laughable lies and false promises (infamous £350m per week for NHS...) and unfortunately there are over 17 million fools who believes (or believed) that. I don't think having a second referendum with more options (Leave with no deal, leave with a deal that is currently on the table, revoke Article 50) would be any less democratic than having an entire campaign based on lies. It's a complete shambles and there will be no winners whatever the outcome will be. I am not into politics at all and I don't even live in UK anymore so I might be talking nonsense I am not sure
That's how the party works. Manifesto policy (i.e UNDER LABOUR) doesn't tend to be made to order for the benefit of the Beeb.Can this lot pick a fecking position and stick with it?
Dunno what's going on with RedCafe mods but if @Dobba hasn't earned himself a Corbyn or Labour related tagline yet I don't know what he has to do.
Congratulations you've managed to point out that government spending is more complicated than buying pints!
This does not mean spending more on public services is a always going to be good, so spend as much as possible.
Yes much of government spend will cycle around the economy, but in some places it will be sunk or make it's way to the rich and be tied up in their savings.
Some government spend will also be tied up in profit making investments which are certainly good investments assuming of course the longer term profit offsets interest costs.
The NHS is a perfect example. Spending more money will most often go to drug companies and their shareholders, many of which will be abroad. Cutting spend on the NHS is thus more like the pints example. Although yes more money on drugs might mean a UK HQ and extra jobs, so again not crystal clear, but what is clear is £100 going into the NHS might only say £70 making it's way back into the UK economy. I don't know exact numbers, but the principle holds. It's highly unlikely that money is going back into the government pot.
Yeah I know. Everything from the very start until now is beyond ridiculous. There should have been more options in referendum in the first place because as you say, you can leave EU in a lot of different ways. Leave campaign was mostly based on laughable lies and false promises (infamous £350m per week for NHS...) and unfortunately there are over 17 million fools who believes (or believed) that. I don't think having a second referendum with more options (Leave with no deal, leave with a deal that is currently on the table, revoke Article 50) would be any less democratic than having an entire campaign based on lies. It's a complete shambles and there will be no winners whatever the outcome will be. I am not into politics at all and I don't even live in UK anymore so I might be talking nonsense I am not sure
Absolutely the greatest quote on here today, well done, dove thank you, you've restored my faith in the human "I'm not sure what I'm talking about" syndrome
And running football clubs ?
Good counter and I just get frustrated by people who blame Conservatives for reduced public spending when often this is a counter to rising debt.
The truth is somewhere in the middle. You are right to some extent that with cheap debt it's a good time to invest in profit making investments. For example, privatising trains would be a huge investment, but could be good all round. Instead of money to shareholders leaking out of the country, it could instead fuel the economy.
Regarding the cut of austerity there are multiple elements. For a start forecasts are inherently difficult to get right as the global economy is not easy to predict, secondly there is no benefit in saying austerity will last for a massive period of time, it's more palatable to drip feed this information. Otherwise many may change their career routes damaging the needs of the country.
As for zero hours contracts. What would you prefer someone who racks up 10-20 hours on a zero hour contract and pays some tax or someone claiming benefits and thus extracting taxes, some of which will or course flow back into the economy, but some of it will be sunk in cigarette, alcohol, gas & electric companies, etc.
Yep. Got a couple weeks’ worth of extras in. I figure if the shit is hitting the fan after that brexit will be toast and there will be urgent discussions with the eu to stabilise the situation.
You can’t trust the govt, self evidently.
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Well the Labour manifesto was very clear that they wanted to Leave, so he should saying that shouldn't he?
You are very welcome. I just replied to someone and gave my opinion, I don't follow all this nonsense everyday hence why I never post in this thread.
That's what I mean, its your opinion, like most of what appears on here, but you were completely honest in declaring it so... we could all take a lesson from you!
Just in the last few years we’ve seen the run on northern rock and how fecking close the system came to collapsing, we’ve seen the incompetence over Iraq and we have seen what happened to Greece. The govt lacks the competence and foresight to navigate safe passage thru brexit. I don’t trust them to get this right.
That sort of civil action goes against all my principles, but in this situation, and considering it worked in the case of the poll tax, maybe it might wake the Government up a bit.
Will of the people, my arse!
Ignoring a million people marching in the street and 5 million petition signatures is not Democratic.
It's no point trying to explain stuff like this on here, it's a markedly left leaning forum.
What he's saying is largely incorrect though - austerity isn't the only approach to tackling debts and deficits. Plenty of economists have said so - the only reason the Tories pursued austerity was because the financial crisis gave them a convenient disguise for doing so. And the fact the party have went for Brexit so keenly shows they don't give a feck about good economic management of the country, it's always been an ideological desire for them to reduce the size of the state.
So if you'd be a good lad and do what redtillhe'sdead failed to do and cite me the maximum gdp spend of Blair's government prior to the banking crisis that'd be great.
No point preaching to the converted either! So better to have a tough conversation and open someone's mind.
Democracy is only as good as your candidate.
Ignoring a referendum where it was laid out in plain terms what voting out entailed (and all the scare mongering that came with it) and then demanding a second referendum before the results of the first one is even implemented or asking for a soft brexit which isn’t actually what leave was painted as (by both sides), is democratic I suppose?
You’re all asking for the far right to truly have cause to get behind by literally wanting to overturn the results of the referendum.