Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
labour are really just as bad as the conservatives they have no back bone. Dont want to stand for anything and just want to wait the country into a disaster in hope that they take over after.
 
mancan92 said:
labour are really just as bad as the conservatives they have no back bone. Dont want to stand for anything and just want to wait the country into a disaster in hope that they take over after.
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Or they want to force the vote for a second ref at a time where it's more likely to succeed? A week is a long time in politics.
 
Adebesi said:
I do agree with you but resistance to a second vote is hardly baffling. There was plenty of information available before the last vote, which led a lot of us to the conclusion that Brexit was a really stupid idea. What has happened in the last two years vindicates what a lot of people were saying back then, it is not brand new information. True, it is a lot more obvious now, but I wonder whether it is any more obvious to the people inclined to vote for Brexit? I suspect, as i have said dozens of times before (tho I have no evidence to back it up) that it has merely made people who already opposed it even more certain of their view. I reckon the majority of people who wanted Brexit still do. And that is because people's opinions on this question derive from emotions, not rationality.

Also, while you didnt mention this aspect, a lot of the time when I talk to people about this they cite the lies that were told last time as a reason not to treat that result as sacrosanct. But does anyone think another election would be conducted with a greater spirit of honesty? There'll be just as many lies the next time around as there were last time. Different lies, I guess. Nobody could say German car manufacturers will ensure we get a great deal anymore with a straight face. But there'll be lies about how well Britain would fare trading on WTO terms, all that bullshit about eradicating all duties on imports and cheap trainers that JRM loves going on about.

And the fact that the vote was two years ago is only relevant if we are proposing to have ongoing votes every few years to confirm we are happy with our current EU membership status - in or out. We could have GEs and EU referendums, alternating like Euros and World Cups, one every 2 years. That way everyone gets to vote on the most accurate, up to date information.

And of course a Brexiter would also complain that if the result had gone the other way, they wouldnt be getting a second chance. Not an analogous situation of course because there is no confusion or uncertainty around continuing with the status quo. But every time there was a crisis in the EU, if there was a decision to set quotas for migrants or increase the budget or anything like that, Brexiters would say: "THE SITUATION HAS CHANGED! WE NEED ANOTHER VOTE."

Having said all that, I do think a second ref is the best - perhaps only - way out of this hole we've dug ourselves into.
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The issue is that the current government is simply incapable of delivering Brexit. Whatever democratic mandate it had been granted by the referendum evaporated by now. The negotiated deal was defeated twice, no deal was defeated - even though it is still the default outcome -, there doesn't seem to be even a hint of rethinking Britain's red lines so that a soft Brexit might be possible.

At this point they are out of options. Either accept no deal - which was voted down by Parliament - or ask the public opinion about the existing possibilities.

That doesn't mean there has to be a vote every two years from then on. I don't know how referendums work in the UK but in a lot of parliamentary democracies it is simple: if anyone collects enough signatures to support a petition for a referendum then Parliament has to vote on it. Those who would want another vote in the future, either to leave or to rejoin, should get busy with those petitions, organise themselves or at least vote for politicians who promise that vote.
 
MoskvaRed said:
It’s not the last chance and even ardent remainers like Alastair Campbell didn’t want this put to a vote today. They need to get c.30 Tories on board (to offset the DUP and Labour kippers like Hoey and Mann).
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We don't do nuance here. fecking corbyn!!!1!​
 
Maybe they should keep voting on it until they get a majority for?

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mancan92 said:
labour are really just as bad as the conservatives they have no back bone. Dont want to stand for anything and just want to wait the country into a disaster in hope that they take over after.
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The vote today was just TIG, Lib Dems and SNP being arseholes, and trying to win some cheap points against Labour. By pushing it today they hurt the people’s vote cause, not helped it.
 
Wait, so what happens now? If that extension was rejected and no deal was rejected yesterday, how does that work?
 
Wait so we're in limbo now?

Edit: Never mind. Main vote coming up.
 
They don't want Mays deal, they don't want no deal and they don't want an extension for a 2nd referendum. What exactly are they after here? Other than personal political gain?
 
MoskvaRed said:
It’s not the last chance and even ardent remainers like Alastair Campbell didn’t want this put to a vote today. They need to get c.30 Tories on board (to offset the DUP and Labour kippers like Hoey and Mann).
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I know. I don't think that it should have been brought today but the amount of labour MP's who broke ranks and voted against it means that it will be next to impossible to get it through the Commons.
 
Penna said:
Are they now in the lobbies for the Benn amendment? I turned on late.
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Yep. The amendment to his amendment was close so this could be as well.

Edit: on the BBC parliament channel they have the amendment being voted on up on the screen when they are out voting.
 
Right hold on..

So the House of Commons has turned down 3 (or maybe 2?) deals presented by Theresa May.

Then the House of Commons turned down any possibility of a No Deal.

Now they're turning down any possibility of a second referendum?

So this is just a group of people who are standing up and saying something has to be done while voting against every possible action they've been presented with?

I could be way off.
 
EU were right British parliament is only able to agree on things against something but never in favour of anything.
 
GDaly95 said:
Right hold on..

So the House of Commons has turned down 3 (or maybe 2?) deals presented my Theresa May.

Then the House of Commons turned down any possibility of a No Deal.

Now they're turning down any possibility of a second referendum?

So this is just a group of people who are standing up and saying something has to be done while voting against every possible action they've been presented with?

I could be way off.
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Just looks like a bunch of people trying to score political points off each other and hang the consequences for their electorate.
 
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