Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Rams]

2 years ago the Swiss voted for immigration quotas which caused immediate clash with the EU and even with some bilateral agreements between the Swiss and the EU. Talks are still ongoing. It's too early to predict the exact consequences and it will be a long process. The financial markets will take a hit naturally and there will be a political crisis that's a given, however it's still one of the biggest economies that we're talking about here.

Financial markets
Sterling
Political turmoil
Sterling
Britain's standing in the world
Divided society
Breaking up of the U.K.
Economic uncertainty
...and the list goes on and on.
And to think that in at a time the UK will need a strong government more than ever the government will have to spend an enormous amount of energy and resources on extracting the UK from the EU. Grrrrrreeeeaaaaaatttttt!!!!

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

Isn't that precisely the reason why they wouldn't want a GE right now?

Well, it won't happen literally by the end of the week, but it wouldn't surprise me if an election is called for next summer.

 

[JPRouve]

Financial markets
Sterling
Political turmoil
Sterling
Britain's standing in the world
Divided society
Breaking up of the U.K.
Economic uncertainty
...and the list goes on and on.
And to think that in at a time the UK will need a strong government more than ever the government will have to spend an enormous amount of energy and resources on extracting the UK from the EU. Grrrrrreeeeaaaaaatttttt!!!!

Raheem isn't that bad.

 

[Enigma_87]

Don't investment banks make up like 10% of the ecomony?

Scary, cause they are not staying through a Brexit.

The'll stay put until the new government is elected. Emerging companies that are in the course of settling in the UK however would be fended off by that vote which will be the bigger hit.

 

[Rams]

At the moment the Monster Raving Looney Party has more chance of providing credible opposition to the Tories than Labour or the LibDems.

 

[Tarrou]

I do want stronger regulations for exactly all these reasons. But while we live in a capitalist world, it's important to acknowledge that "right" and "wrong" have different meanings for businesses and other people.
For example, let's remove the complication of children and say I'm a lone adult who owns an oil company. Say I'm 50 years old. The worst effects of global warming will take place after I die. Lobbying is legal in most countries, and lobbying influence is directly proportional to the money I put in. Why shouldn't I lobby for barriers for renewable energy, for lower taxes and better subsidies for my company? Why shouldn't I donate to politicians who say climate science is bogus and that no more money needs to be put into research on climate change?

Fair play. I've never heard anyone make that argument before.

Why can't I help destroy the planet for the future of the entire human race including my children and grand kids, and all life as we know it. Why, goddammit!?

fecking lefties, you can't do anything these days.

 

[Rams]

Raheem isn't that bad.

A left wing crisis

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Heseltine really nails Boris here

 

[Enigma_87]

Financial markets
Sterling
Political turmoil
Sterling
Britain's standing in the world
Divided society
Breaking up of the U.K.
Economic uncertainty
...and the list goes on and on.
And to think that in at a time the UK will need a strong government more than ever the government will have to spend an enormous amount of energy and resources on extracting the UK from the EU. Grrrrrreeeeaaaaaatttttt!!!!

You mean foreign investments and offshore companies in the service sector. Truth is no one expected that vote which would make an ever bigger impact.

With that said - what's done is done. It's better to direct the energy at cutting off the loses and restricting the damage rather than pointing fingers and create further instability.

As you said strong government is what you need especially in a time like this. With that said the leader of the "Leave" party is the exact opposite of that. Whenever the next elections happen people should stay away of demagogic crap.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Interesting. So you didn't agree with the Green Party's firm position that leaving the EU would lead to more austerity, a bonfire of workers' rights, and would jeopardise our environmental progress?

Or did you in fact vote Remain?

Broadly speaking, no i did not; moreover, the EU's support of TTIP will damage all three. I also consider Brussels' handing of the migrant crisis as a reason to doubt its competence in that area, which i corroborated by the MSF (an organisation i support).

And i most certainly voted Leave, i'd been waiting fifteen years for such an opportunity.

 

[Rams]

You mean foreign investments and offshore companies in the service sector. Truth is no one expected that vote which would make an ever bigger impact.

With that said - what's done is done. It's better to direct the energy at cutting off the loses and restricting the damage rather than pointing fingers and create further instability.

As you said strong government is what you need especially in a time like this. With that said the leader of the "Leave" party is the exact opposite of that. Whenever the next elections happen people should stay away of demagogic crap.

Firstly, what I meant by a strong government is a government & civil servants focusing on sorting out the UK's problems rather than having to spend a vast amount of time of extracting the UK out of the EU and fighting the invevitable referendum in Scotland (if the triggers art 50).

Secondly, I could spend all night listing the problems the referendum result has caused. I've already mentioned enough examples this evening. You have to be in complete denial not to admit the country is in a very damaging crisis. I don't know whether I should laugh or cry. What a feckin mess!!!!

 

[Tyrion]

There will be a new boogeyman to blame unfortunately which will let the likes of Boris get off scot free.

I hope the scapegoat isn't foreigners. I'm sure Farage would be all too happy to pin it all on them.

 

[Rams]

Broadly speaking, no i did not; moreover, the EU's support of TTIP will damage all three. I also consider Brussels' handing of the migrant crisis as a reason to doubt its competence in that area, which i corroborated by the MSF (an organisation i support).

And i most certainly voted Leave, i'd been waiting fifteen years for such an opportunity.

Please explain to me what to be pleased about and what do you think of the current predicament the country's in? I for one am struggling to think of anything positive to say about the whole mess.

 

[Minimalist]

I don't think the U.K. as a group is very good at this politics thing.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Financial markets - FTSE was up today, thankfully.
Sterling - Will recover.
Political turmoil - Has merely been accelerated: the shadow cabinet isn't in need of encouragement to move against Corbyn, and Cameron wasn't standing in 2020 anyway.
Divided society - Did Brexit create the divide, or merely shine a light upon what already existed?
Britain's standing in the world - This will be determined by our deeds in the years t come.
Breaking up of the U.K.- Without a significant political shift, Scotland as on its way regardless. We can trace this back to a botched devolution policy and the complacency of Labour in particular.

...and the list goes on and on.

And to think that in at a time the UK will need a strong government more than ever the government will have to spend an enormous amount of energy and resources on extracting the UK from the EU. Grrrrrreeeeaaaaaatttttt!!!!

Go eat your Frosties.

 

[Enigma_87]

Firstly, what I meant by a strong government is a government & civil servants focusing on sorting out the UK's problems rather than having to spend a vast amount of time of extracting the UK out of the EU and fighting the invevitable referendum in Scotland (if the triggers art 50).

Secondly, I could spend all night listing the problems the referendum result has caused. I've already mentioned enough examples this evening. You have to be in complete denial not to admit the country is in a very damaging crisis. I don't know whether I should laugh or cry. What a feckin mess!!!!

Don't get me wrong I agree with you, was a huge surprise when I saw the vote. Going out is a mistake at this point and will cause a major ruptures. However, albeit a minority, some have valid points behind their vote, which is kinda encouraging(otherwise I couldn't really explain myself the vote).

Still not everything is in the crapper. The UK is huge economy and a big market and can get a pretty good deal in the negotiations with the EU if they go along with it.

In the long term you can't be sure of the consequences - again much like the Swiss you can come with treaties that wold serve pretty well and still you can be out of the EU, albeit not having a serious effect on the economy.

In the short term - yeah you are pretty much fecked.

 

[Minimalist]

I despair, keep seeing" Remain lost, accept it " - can someone tell me who won?

The media.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

I don't think the U.K. as a group is very good at this politics thing.

We used to be known as a sensible bunch - now half the country has been lead by morons and has wrecked the economy.

 

[Rams]

Go eat your Frosties.

When you've finished eating your humble pie go and analyse your answers more closely and then honestly tell me if you seriously & truthfully believe in the answers you've just written down.

 

[Tyrion]

Nothing is going to change with regard immigration until at least 2019 when and if the divorce is sorted, and as the Uk need the EU to trade it's likely the immigration laws will probably remain unchanged anyway.
At least in the short term the economy is going to suffer, during that time until 2019 there could be hordes of immigrants coming in to beat the doors being locked behind them - plus a stream of panicking ageing expats returning to the UK. So the immigration Brexit was trying to reduce could easily increase because they "won"

Apparently Boris said that most people didn't vote because of immigration so that spike in immigration you're taling about will go over smoothly.

You'


The hope that this will actually happen is the only positive crumb I can find from this whole debacle, although I suspect a lot the spearheads of the leave campaign will publically be keeping a low profile during the coming years (although possibly not Johnson and Farrage to be fair).

What I also find striking has been the retraction of promises made by the leave campaign, as well as the denial of the immediate negative effects on sterling, on the financial markets, financial institutions, UK's credit rating, the popularity & standing of the United Kingdom in the world, etc etc.
Probably the most worrying thing is the political crisis the referendum result has created in the UK. (Not to mention the likely break up of the United Kingdom Brexit is likely to cause.) Furthermore, I think its absolutely disgusting that the government or leave campaigners made no contingency plans or strategies what so ever before the referendum for the scenario that Britain voted to leave. This also is another indication of the pack of lies sold by the leave campaign and a complete lack of foresight shown by the government.
And to put the cherry on the cake, the referendum result also seems to be judged as an approval of racist behavior by parts of the British public.

But, apart from that, it hasn't been a bad few days for the United Kingdom...

I think Johnson is trying to rustle up support for himself as PM. After that, he'll probably come out swinging. Osbourne has ruled himself out apparently. I think people will think less of him if he doesn't try for PM. He wanted this but if he doesn't make a serious effort to take over then people will doubt how committed he really is.

I'm not really surprised by the lack of a plan by Leave. They said people were "tired of experts". Who were they going to consult for a plan?

When did the UK morph into the third reich? Only matter of time before I get some racial abuse on public transport

You think that public transport will still exist?
(mostly joking)

 

[Mystry]

The media.

I imagine Farage will do very well out of this. When it turns out we can't get a deal that doesn't involve free movement he'll blame the tories for being weak negotiaters. UKIP will probably also pick up even more labour voters due to their turmoil.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Please explain to me what to be pleased about and what do you think of the current predicament the country's in? I for one am struggling to think of anything positive to say about the whole mess.

If we can formalise an associate status with the EU, with distinct separation fro its excesses, i will be pleased about that. But winning the referendum was only the beginning of a hard road, the key figures of Vote Leave need to be more visible and assertive then we've seen in recent days (such assurance would ease the uncertainty somewhat). For Tories, this will form part of the leadership race.

As for the predicament in which we find ourselves...well it was to be expected. Yet while my stake in Ocado is presently down by 33%, my position as prospective buyer of a house/apartment could possibly be a silver lining.

 

[RedSky]

I imagine Farage will do very well out of this. When it turns out we can't get a deal that doesn't involve free movement he'll blame the tories for being weak negotiaters. UKIP will probably also pick up even more labour voters due to their turmoil.

Agreed. People will be finding people to blame and they'll see Farage being sidelined as yet another example of their views being oppressed. I want him involved just to watch him crash and burn.

 

[Jippy]

If we can formalise an associate status with the EU, with distinct separation fro its excesses, i will be pleased about that. But winning the referendum was only the beginning of a hard road, the key figures of Vote Leave need to be more visible and assertive then we've seen in recent days (such assurance would ease the uncertainty somewhat). For Tories, this will form part of the leadership race.

As for the predicament in which we find ourselves...well it was to be expected. Yet while my stake in Ocado is presently down by 33%, my position as prospective buyer of a house/apartment could possibly be a silver lining.

My Barclays and ITV shares have been pummulled. Where are you looking to buy? My flat's value has no doubt been battered too

 

[afrocentricity]

Wow, some of you fcukers are quite callous! My god

 

[Stanley Road]

Um, nah. You can't vote to feck your country up on maybes and threats. They voted for union, we essentially voted to tell them to do one because our politicians and voters are all apparently deluded bellends.

Ok

 

[Stanley Road]

Was talking to 2 dutch guys in a pub tonight and they both wanted a referendum and would vote out

 

[Crossie]

It depends mate. Look at Switzerland. You still might have all the benefits of the free trade, free moving of people and so forth even adopt some laws but have your own legislature.

You don't have universal solutions because each local market is different. Some cost of goods or manufacturers are not competitive within the local market simply because the cost of production is higher when you take into consideration the labor force and the standard of living. So it's tough to draw the line especially if you try to enforce universal laws and regulations.

Sometimes as a local manufacturer you pass regulations that you have already fulfilled by local regulators with different name. Sure it is fixed after some time and generally mistakes are made and fixed, but during that time it's a disadvantage for locals who already have high quality products and goods.

No system is perfect, I can understand where some are going when it comes to fulfilling EU regulations and generally most of them are not a bad thing, but still that is valid point in some case so many voters that have this personal interest is perfectly normal to go behind that campaign.

The problem is - most that do vote for Leave are not educated to the effects of the vote, don't really care, or are mislead by unrealistic expectations.

However it is still democratic if you are an idiot to vote, so unless the referendum is rigged you really can't do anything about it.

I suggest you talk to those in Switzerland who deal with the EU treaties. About 20-25% of Swiss law comes directly or indirectly from Brussels. Switzerland also contribute a lot to the EU budget and had to allow a substantial amount of free movement of people. No market access otherwise.

 

[TwoSheds]

Broadly speaking, no i did not; moreover, the EU's support of TTIP will damage all three. I also consider Brussels' handing of the migrant crisis as a reason to doubt its competence in that area, which i corroborated by the MSF (an organisation i support).

And i most certainly voted Leave, i'd been waiting fifteen years for such an opportunity.

Ok then you're very much mistaken. TTIP is currently likely to be vetoed by at least the Germans and the French. If we were to stay in it could also be vetoed by us. If we don't stay in though, it would be forced upon us by the EU anyway as part of any trade deal.

And the real problem is not that there is literally nothing we could do to take positives from this situation, it's that our national politics is in such a mess that we don't definitely won't do anything positive with it. We have a government that I've no doubt supports TTIP and if we leave, the rest of Europe won't be able to save us from something similar being negotiated here. We also have a shit national election system and a lot of very thick voters who dont understand what they can do to lead us away from the path we're on.

I also agree with you that the EU's handling of the asylum seekers etc is both shameful and illegal. Again though, is our government speaking out about it or are they in support? And is the rest of Europe only going along with it to try to pander to the far right idiots in their countries? That worked really well for Cameron, hopefully they all realise this and change tack.

I don't disagree with you that the problems being thrown up were mostly already there, I just disagree that this will, or even can, do anything positive to change them at this time (in the UK - it could conceivably do some good in one or two other countries).

 

[Crossie]

But the EU, and freedom of movement within it, are not to blame for their economic stagnation and struggles. Suggesting otherwise is a horribly poisonous thing to have done:

1. The EU may be an ally of the globalisation and market capitalism that has left the working classes behind, but leaving cannot cure globalisation's failings. To combat the ills of globalisation you need the opposite of a retreat into the nation state. You need countries to work together to develop a more equitable settlement.

It would be fair to point out that one of the major drivers of a deregulated, liberal market within the EU28 was in fact the UK, both Tories and New Labour governements.

It will be interesting to see if an EU27 will be as liberal or more considerate and if a UK government without Brussels' restrictions will ease the pain of the losers of the globalization.

 

[Drifter]

So according to Cameron if the paper headlines are to be believed. It was the fault of the EU why there was a leave vote. No it's all down to you Mr Cameron .And your legacy will show that you took us out of Europe and the break up of the United Kingdom.

 

[Rory 7]

I'm looking forward to landing in Heathrow later and buying myself a new iPad Pro for 20% less than I would have a week ago. Every cloud

 

[Enigma_87]

I suggest you talk to those in Switzerland who deal with the EU treaties. About 20-25% of Swiss law comes directly or indirectly from Brussels. Switzerland also contribute a lot to the EU budget and had to allow a substantial amount of free movement of people. No market access otherwise.

yes, I mentioned all those above. They are in tight relationship yet outside the EU but in Schenghen. Something that UK can do as well in the upcoming negotiations.

 

[devilish]

yes, I mentioned all those above. They are in tight relationship yet outside the EU but in Schenghen. Something that UK can do as well in the upcoming negotiations.

As long as they are willing a lot more money, have no say on EU business and accept freedom of movement then the answer is yes.

 

[M18CTID]

I'm looking forward to landing in Heathrow later and buying myself a new iPad Pro for 20% less than I would have a week ago. Every cloud

To be honest Rory, that's why I voted to leave - I knew you were over here this week and figured that a leave vote would enable you to pick up a cheaper iPad

 

[Crossie]

yes, I mentioned all those above. They are in tight relationship yet outside the EU but in Schenghen. Something that UK can do as well in the upcoming negotiations.

As long as they are willing a lot more money, have no say on EU business and accept freedom of movement then the answer is yes.

What devilish says is my point:

The leave campaign did make references to countries like Norway or Switzerland without clearly saying how the exact relationship of countries with the EU is: What it exactly entails. It would have become obvious that their promises were not substantiated.

The remain campaign was dumb enough to not point out clearly enough that all those promises made by leave were BS and that this won't change in the future. They also failed to point out the consequences if the UK had treaties with the EU like Canada will have.

Don't get me wrong: I fully respect the outcome of the referendum. All I'm saying is that the leave campaign worked with a bunch of lies and remain wasn't able to highlight this. The deal UK will get won't be better.

 

[devilish]

What devilish says is my point:

The leave campaign did make references to countries like Norway or Switzerland without clearly saying how the exact relationship of countries with the EU is: What it exactly entails. It would have become obvious that their promises were not substantiated.

The remain campaign was dumb enough to not point out clearly enough that all those promises made by leave were BS and that this won't change in the future. They also failed to point out the consequences if the UK had treaties with the EU like Canada will have.

Don't get me wrong: I fully respect the outcome of the referendum. All I'm saying is that the leave campaign worked with a bunch of lies and remain wasn't able to highlight this. The deal UK will get won't be better.

Some of the delusion comments I've read by some of the leaver's supporters are beyond relief. One actually told me that Brexit will bring the empire back. I am not suggesting that all Leave supporters are as dumb as this person is. However there's high expectations out there and usually that always end up in a massive dissapointment

 

[Manny]

The remain campaign was dumb enough to not point out clearly enough that all those promises made by leave were BS and that this won't change in the future.

They did. Repeatedly, but it was dismissed as scaremongering and Leave had the UK's two biggest newspapers backing them.

 

[TwoSheds]

They did. Repeatedly, but it was dismissed as scaremongering and Leave had the UK's two biggest newspapers backing them.

Indeed. News Corp and whatever the Daily Mail's holding company are called make up nearly 60% of newspaper readership in this country with the Express making up I think another 7 or 8% and I believe every one of their papers was / is pro-Leave? Then you've got Sky News and various other shit sources including the currently awful political reporting of the BBC as well who are constantly more interested in covering the Labour party throwing their toys out of the pram that they have to be socialists again than actually reporting on anything useful such as what appalling bellends the Tory Leave MPs are.

There needs to be a new call for splitting up the press. ******* Harman proposed a bill in 2013 to limit share of readership for one owner to 15%, it was smashed down by all the cowardly MPs who think they can butter up Murdoch to get elected. Well look what happened to Cameron for selling his soul to Murdoch. Career over. Same with Osborne.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Some of the delusion comments I've read by some of the leaver's supporters are beyond relief. One actually told me that Brexit will bring the empire back. I am not suggesting that all Leave supporters are as dumb as this person is. However there's high expectations out there and usually that always end up in a massive dissapointment

I have not heard one sensible rational comment from any Brexiter yet, that includes before the vote and since the vote, not one single sensible reply.