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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
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  • Poll closed .
Paul the Wolf said:
Extend A50 for what purpose?
An extension has to be agreed by the E27 and to have a different change of direction and a goal.
There is no consensus in parliament.
They won't extend it just to have endless discussions going round in circles.
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As I say I could see her using an extension forced on her to call a ge... It's one of the things the EU has said would be likley to get them to agree the extension ... Plus it gives her an opportunity to present labour as being the drivers behind blocking brexit... Plus take advantage of the shambolic state they are currently in.

There is also an argument that she actually wants cooper letwin to pass which would allow parliament to take control of brexit on 13th march ... She then presents her deal with the Cox codpiece attached and tells the erg and dup they back the deal or parliament will take over the following day... Might get them on board ... Plus remain conservative MPs might be nervous to vote against knowing a general election could be called the next day if an extension is forced.
In that scenario it could be down to labour leave MP's Vs conservative remain MP's... And that would be a very close vote.
 
africanspur said:
The NHS is falling apart but nobody really cares because of Brexit. They unveiled this grand plan for the NHS a few months ago, with prevention at ts forefront and then cut the budget for public health. :lol: Numbers of doctors applying for training falling, number of EU applicants dropping and number of nurses leaving their jobs rising. Morale at rock bottom throughout.

God only knows what they're going to push through to make things 'better' next time.
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That's the overall plan though, isn't it. Make it worse, and worse and worse until the British public start to come around to the idea of privatized care and selling off the NHS.
 
sun_tzu said:
As I say I could see her using an extension forced on her to call a ge... It's one of the things the EU has said would be likley to get them to agree the extension ... Plus it gives her an opportunity to present labour as being the drivers behind blocking brexit... Plus take advantage of the shambolic state they are currently in.

There is also an argument that she actually wants cooper letwin to pass which would allow parliament to take control of brexit on 13th march ... She then presents her deal with the Cox codpiece attached and tells the erg and dup they back the deal or parliament will take over the following day... Might get them on board ... Plus remain conservative MPs might be nervous to vote against knowing a general election could be called the next day if an extension is forced.
In that scenario it could be down to labour leave MP's Vs conservative remain MP's... And that would be a very close vote.
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If a GE would need to lead to a change in position but it won't.

Taking a step back, the reason the current agreement won't get through parliament is because the Uk may be tied to a permanent customs union.
The only direction to take to change the current withdrawal agreement is .... to join a permanent customs union (which is what the objection is) .... or cancel Brexit - both seems unlikely.
An extension doesn't seem worth it because parliament will never agree on anything.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
If a GE would need to lead to a change in position but it won't.

Taking a step back, the reason the current agreement won't get through parliament is because the Uk may be tied to a permanent customs union.
The only direction to take to change the current withdrawal agreement is .... to join a permanent customs union (which is what the objection is) .... or cancel Brexit - both seems unlikely.
An extension doesn't seem worth it because parliament will never agree on anything.
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This is spot on, but which scenario is most unlikely?

Attachment to a permanent CU blows away a lot of Red lines and includes a weakening of what is supposed to be May's main red line FOM. The Brino that results pleases no one except maybe some elements in the EU. If the No deal (as we are told) is going to be a suicidal outcome, then any party or individual politician backing this is finished for decades in the UK.

So, if you cant get what you want, and what you can get is not what the majority want, then you stand still and wait for the space to form around you and be ready to receive the ball (Scholesy turned this into a fine Art on the pitch). May pulls Art 50 then disappears into the sunset. History will then judge her as to whether she was the biggest traitor ever to the people of the UK, or their Saviour. A May legacy will be left either way!
 
I really wish people wouldn't use the "playing chicken" anology when it comes to brexit and dealing with the EU.

In a game of chicken both sides have a definite direction and that direction is in direct conflict. If someone doesn't move both parties will be destroyed.

This is not what is happening with Brexit.

With Brexit the UK is on a motorway along with the rest of the European nations. It is indicating that it is going to leave the motorway. The rest of the traffic is keen that they come off the motorway in a safe way, but is more concerned with getting to their destination, having a nice picnic, and maybe choosing which attractions to stop off at along the way.

If Britain decides to just drive off the motorway and head towards some cliffs, that is not playing "chicken" it's an act of madness.

It's time to confiscate the drivers keys as they have clearly lost the plot.

A night in a motorway service motel should give them the cold harsh grasp of reality that being a satellite of America rather than a European nation is a grim prospect.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Extend A50 for what purpose?
An extension has to be agreed by the E27 and to have a different change of direction and a goal.
There is no consensus in parliament.
They won't extend it just to have endless discussions going round in circles.
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I am also slightly hopeful the EU27, (or at least one country which would be enough) would just say "no" if May asks for an extension.

They might as well force a conclusion one way or the other. It's not like the options will change with an extension.

I think that would probably spell the end of May, the government, and Brexit ,for the time being anyway.

Can't be exactly sure of the outcome of such a move so a little risky, some in the EU27 must be tempted to do that.
 
RAWK's take:
Brexit is like that girlfriend you broke up with who was a solid 7 or 8 out of 10 but had her flaws. However, she was always trying to better herself and would listen to you in order to make everyone happier. She's the one you'll miss the most when you're sat in your rundown council house with a right cnut who you accidentally had two kids with. You're just longing for the days with your first one and plan to get in touch when the kids have moved out. Either that, or you're now with a 10 but she's absolutely bat shit crazy. The sad state of affairs is we don't have 10s in the UK.
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Maagge said:
RAWK's take:
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Brexit is like that girlfriend named Rafaela Beniteziera you broke up with who was a solid 7 or 8 out of 10 but had her flaws. However, she was always trying to better herself and would listen to you in order to make everyone happier. She's the one you'll miss the most when you're sat in your rundown council house with a right cnut who you accidentally had two kids with. You're just longing for the days with your first one and plan to get in touch when the kids have moved out. Either that, or you're now with a 10 but she's absolutely bat shit crazy. The sad state of affairs is we don't have 10s in the UK.
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Revised to reflect actual rawk thoughts.
 
DavidDeSchmikes said:
she's playing chicken hoping that they'll vote for her deal
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She really only has two options:
1. Try to persuade the EU to change the WA sufficiently to go to Parliament and get her deal accepted. I see little chance of this as the EU has repeatedly to her this is not going to happen.
2. Run the clock down (which is precisely what she is doing) so Parliament only has her deal or no deal; hoping that her deal is the lessor of the two evils.
 
Mb194dc said:
I am also slightly hopeful the EU27, (or at least one country which would be enough) would just say "no" if May asks for an extension.

They might as well force a conclusion one way or the other. It's not like the options will change with an extension.

I think that would probably spell the end of May, the government, and Brexit ,for the time being anyway.

Can't be exactly sure of the outcome of such a move so a little risky, some in the EU27 must be tempted to do that.
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Seems the EU would agree to extend
.
Brexit: EU would back extending article 50 if deal not passed soon, says Tusk - Politics live
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https://amp.theguardian.com/politic...-50-extension-minister-suggests-politics-live
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Extend A50 for what purpose?
An extension has to be agreed by the E27 and to have a different change of direction and a goal.
There is no consensus in parliament.
They won't extend it just to have endless discussions going round in circles.
Click to expand...

And that would be exactly the outcome.
There is no point in trying to extend the timescales as nothing has or will change.

For us, it is decision time. We voted to leave the EU and so we should either
accept her deal as it stands or leave with no deal.
Nothing in this world is perfect and we are at the point of least worse wins.
That being the case I cannot see how no deal could be argued as being least worse.
 
sun_tzu said:
Seems the EU would agree to extend


https://amp.theguardian.com/politic...-50-extension-minister-suggests-politics-live
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Has to be unanimous EU27 to extend. Agree it's likely they would all agree.

I'm not sure if they should though. Maybe better to say to May "You made your bed and now you've got to lie in it". Force the UK to decide something. 2 years is enough, isn't it?

Or at least say no extension till concrete voted through plan for what you're going to do

Frankly that is probably what May deserves.
 
Complete and utter shambles. How are we simply being led off the edge of a cliff and nothing and no one is doing anything to stop it? We have a choice of a deal which suits no one but May, no deal which is by all accounts going to drive the country into financial ruin, and we're seemingly too scared to either provide a final vote or revoke this disaster in case people get upset. What do they think the reaction will be if companies keep closing and jobs keep being lost? What about when the already struggling NHS can't cope any more? What about the almost inevitable hard border and serious risk of the troubles kicking off again? It's as if they think people will just shrug their shoulders and be happy we're out of the EU.

The fact that there's no opposition standing against this and campaigning is lunacy. How is it that someone like James O'Brien is the biggest voice against Brexit and not one of the opposition shutting down the pure lies coming from Farage/Boris/JRM et al?
 
Relfy said:
Complete and utter shambles. How are we simply being led off the edge of a cliff and nothing and no one is doing anything to stop it? We have a choice of a deal which suits no one but May, no deal which is by all accounts going to drive the country into financial ruin, and we're seemingly too scared to either provide a final vote or revoke this disaster in case people get upset. What do they think the reaction will be if companies keep closing and jobs keep being lost? What about when the already struggling NHS can't cope any more? What about the almost inevitable hard border and serious risk of the troubles kicking off again? It's as if they think people will just shrug their shoulders and be happy we're out of the EU.

The fact that there's no opposition standing against this and campaigning is lunacy. How is it that someone like James O'Brien is the biggest voice against Brexit and not one of the opposition shutting down the pure lies coming from Farage/Boris/JRM et al?
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The answer is Party Politics.

Sad times.
 
Relfy said:
It's as if they think people will just shrug their shoulders and be happy we're out of the EU.
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This is exactly what people are going to do. They'll also blame anything bad that happens to them on Remainers or the EU, instead of looking at how daft they've been.

It's reached the stage where even if you told everyone that no one in the UK would have a job after a no deal Brexit, they'd still want it because "will of the people".
 
It's stupid extending A50 without some sort of promise of change to the political landscape. The problem is there is no parliamentary arithmetic to do anything, not now, not next year.
 
Relfy said:
It's as if they think people will just shrug their shoulders and be happy we're out of the EU.
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Have you gone on some of the forums in places where companies are closing? These people are either blaming the companies or the EU. Our politicians will let anything happen as long as they do not take the fall. This country is beyond redemption.
 
Klopper76 said:
This is exactly what people are going to do. They'll also blame anything bad that happens to them on Remainers or the EU, instead of looking at how daft they've been.

It's reached the stage where even if you told everyone that no one in the UK would have a job after a no deal Brexit, they'd still want it because "will of the people".
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Yes, because the vast majority of leave voters didn't vote on an economic basis, indeed for many of them why should they, having been left behind by that economy?
Leavers collectively are a motely crew, but their main theme was as someone once said, " to get our country back". Whether you think that stupid, or xenophobic or racist, or all the above, no sane politician is going to stand up against that sentiment when 17.4 million voted for it, because it is "the will of the people"...right or wrong. Therefore unless a politician is ready to retire, or fancies a change of career, they wont stand against it when push comes to shove, which its about to do shortly.

May is the only one who can save us now from "the will of the people" and by a massive act of self-sacrifice. If she can't face down the EU to amend the backstop, or the ERG to bully them into accepting her deal, then rather than allow a no deal she will capitulate... think of her legacy after that!
 
Fully on board for the next 2 weeks watching Chuka's goofballs trying to balance their apparent desire for this and instinctive opposition to anything tabled by Corbyn. Didn't think we'd ever top last week.
 
'jezbollah' in 5...4...3...2...
 
Think the obvious question for Labour is, if they got what they want on the Brexit deal, would they still back a public vote or not? If yes then this is a major shift in policy. If not then it’s not really a change in position from their conference vote, albeit it is a definite change in tone.
 
I suspect this will probably be a referendum on whether or not they should be the ones to negotiate from their position instead of the Tories, as opposed to an actual referendum on Brexit or anything like that. Which would be fairly absurd considering we're a literal month away from this all happening.
 
Thankfully, looking at any potential second referendum, we haven't had the sudden appearance of a bunch of morons who've spent the best part of a week going on TV and radio explaining that not everything needs a second vote when the circumstances of the previous one change, who will be arguing for the remain side of matters.
 
The statement is not exactly crystal clear but it seems Corbyn has finally come off the fence. Probably forced out of him by threat of further defections but welcome nonetheless.
 
Dobba said:
Thankfully, looking at any potential second referendum, we haven't had the sudden appearance of a bunch of morons who've spent the best part of a week going on TV and radio explaining that not everything needs a second vote when the circumstances of the previous one change, who will be arguing for the remain side of matters.
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Considering you've largely been supportive of Corbyn's strategy not to have one until now, does this worry/concern you at all?
 
Now come the fun questions as to which way they'd campaign.
 
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