Ah the famous Donald Trump 'locker room talk' defense . You've done a lot off waffling to defend racism, very interesting.
Argentina players singing racist chant targeting French players after Copa America final
- Thread starter Gandalf Greyhame
- Start date
Crazy how many Argentinians are doubling down.
It's like trying to explain women rights to the Taliban.
But that was the point: the USSR fell apart along the lines of existing jurisdictions. They may largely have followed ethnocultural zones, but that wasn't considered or fought over. (Unlike in Yugoslavia, yes.)
Of course that's too much. It's a comment to say that racism is common in Argentina (I don't know myself if it's true, but it's something that might possibly be), but an unfair generalization to say that all Argentinians are racist. And it's right for you to call that out.
But that's not what you were saying in the post I responded to. You were saying, 'well what about France and Germany'. That's just a separate discussion that says nothing about Argentina.
Not a Trump expert so I've no idea what you are on about.
I'm not defending racism. I very clearly stated its a terrace chant that leverages hate speech that appeals to certain French people in order to create disunity / split camps.
It's certainly not something you want to be broadcasting to the world and it wasn't. End of story.
Saying "it's not something you want broadcasting" rather than "it's a racist chant nobody should be singing" sure sounds a lot like defending racism.
You're not defending it but you are certainly mitigating racism. Which sucks.
From what I have gathered you are saying it's OK as its in the terraces/in private. Sounds like you are making excuses to me.
If the goal was to create disunity/split camps then broadcasting to the world is a deliberate action. It's also a racist tactic, by using discrimination in order to create disension.
In essence you described a racist campaign. And not a joke or banter.
@lexisonfire @JPRouve @Ramos @Iker Quesadillas @NotThatSoph
Too many message to respond to individually for me but with the combination of your posts it has opened my eyes a bit to things I wasn't aware and I can see how it is racist because of the underlying connotations, thanks for your detailed responses and it's a shame stuff like this is so rife in so many countries. Seen some outlets push the notion that these SA countries are behind Europe and our progressive way of thinking but it's quite prevalent in countries like Italy still I thought? Anyway I'm surprised it still happens in this day and age either way, do Argentina have a particular issue with France or was this just something they found "Funny"?
Too many message to respond to individually for me but with the combination of your posts it has opened my eyes a bit to things I wasn't aware and I can see how it is racist because of the underlying connotations, thanks for your detailed responses and it's a shame stuff like this is so rife in so many countries. Seen some outlets push the notion that these SA countries are behind Europe and our progressive way of thinking but it's quite prevalent in countries like Italy still I thought? Anyway I'm surprised it still happens in this day and age either way, do Argentina have a particular issue with France or was this just something they found "Funny"?
I'm just of the opinion if a bunch of people are singing terrace chants in private, unsavoury or not, it's none of my business.
Moreover, that every time private matters like these are forced into the public domain to elicit reaction all you get is more deeply entrenched and obfuscated viewpoints.
I call it tolerance, some of you will call it turning a blind eye. I'm just a bit fed up of the Twitter everything is public and everything gets amplified world, don't see how it is getting us anywhere good.
Its interesting you're saying about people having feck all grounds to make statements all the while not having a clue about African-Argentines and their number.
First you said its made up data then you dont know about it. Which is it then? Its made up cause you didnt have a clue about it?
So Argentines are racist to fellow South Americans but not towards blacks? Got it. It all makes sense. I mean, singing a racist song is just banter, right.
Not to mention ridiculous take you keep repeating that if someone stops filming a racist songs it doesnt make it racist.
You're having an absolute mare in this thread.
That would have been the original objective of the terrace chant pre-WC final. Now it's just a chant, an obsolete chant that will get new life in the terraces.
But these aren't private matters. It's a chant that is sung in public spaces and it was broadcasted live to the public. Argentines are the ones who made it public, not the people reacting to it.
No. It's a racist chant, chanted with a racist motivation that you described perfectly. And it will be like that for the rest of time.
Edit: And I should add that this applies to similar chants sung in french stadiums that are racists, homophobic or xenophobic.
we don't have any knowledge of what they say and sing in private.. so obviously that is not being discussed
this thread is discussing a public broadcast of a racist chant
It's just banter.
It's bad news for Chelsea as it's just going to keep this story running. They'll want to get the quick PR job done and move on asap.
Interesting part is about that being a stadium chant so it makes it ok cause well you know people sing lots of things in the stands.
@antohan what's your stance about bananas being thrown from the stands I wonder?
Nobody is claiming all Argentines are all racist, just that racism is going on there and among Argentines as it was evident from the bus video.
@antohan what's your stance about bananas being thrown from the stands I wonder?
Nobody is claiming all Argentines are all racist, just that racism is going on there and among Argentines as it was evident from the bus video.
It's not the first time either. A few days ago he was disingenuously claiming that people in Uruguay don't know that saying all Koreans look the same is racist, and so it was fine for a professional international footballer to joke about it on national tv.
Sorry for not consulting Wikipedia to form an opinion on the history of a country I know very well. The % looked off as a representation of Argentina and indeed they were.
Didn't say not, just not on their radar in relative terms. And yes, they didn't sing that to make a racist statement. In fact, the guy bringing it up says "what was the one about Mbappe?" Doesn't make the song innocuous, but that's why it came up.
I think we would all be better off and live in a better society if instead of focusing on the viralisation of the (omitted) song those who knew it just reacted thinking "good thing he didn't broadcast that shit!".
“Nothing to see here… let’s all move on” 
So if somebody committs a crime, others in the know should just not talk about it right? First Suarez (which I understood 1%) and now defending this.. Unbelieveable.
So what was the representation of Afro-Argentines in the 19th century?
I mean, its good he didnt broadcast the whole thing, but again the problem is not the timing of the filming but the song itself. I repeat, its a ridiculous take, he stopped filming so its ok.
But since you dont find it racist I cant help you.
Or they didnt sing it to make a racist statement? Why did they sing it? Why did they have the need to sing a song about French black players?
Not to mention they had to need to sing about the French after winning Copa America against Colombia.
Anyway your views about racism are pretty skewed and strange.
Tolerating intolerance and division only has one logical outcome.
I just can't get over the fact that it somehow eludes these people that 100% of their squad should actually play for Spain, Italy or Germany by their logic.
You're speaking Spanish for feck sake.
You're speaking Spanish for feck sake.
“Nothing to see here… let’s all move on”
Clubs would do well to make these players stop talking and receive education.
I made the same point. Even if they included every french players and didn't somehow target a specific group. Their point applies to every single one of them, they have no business representing Argentina, yet they are proud Argentines.
“Nothing to see here… let’s all move on”
Good thing he didnt say Enzo isnt racist, he has black friends.
Also, the logic isnt we were wrong but you that you have to be careful not to film singing racist songs the next time.
What about Suárez? I only defended him over the handball incident.
I literally had just explained to you that on the clip you can clearly hear someone propose "what was the one about Mbappé?". That's what registered in the mind of that guy at least. I also think Enzo most likely cut it off thinking about not offending Mbappé, not the rest.
And that Europeans need to be less sensitive.
The number is presented in two ways:
1) The total population of black people, either slaves or descendants of slaves, in the area of modern Argentina, was around 30 %.
2) In some cities and regions it was over 50 %.
If the regions with over 50 % was low population areas, then the rest of Argentina must have had a lot of black people for it to reach 30 % in total. But, you're saying that's not true. Unless you want to go back to denying historical data, then it looks like you've trapped yourself in a logical impossibility.
For the total Argentinian population to be around 30 % black, then you either need it to be standard for basically any Argentinian city to have a population of black people approaching that 30 %, or you need some high population regions in those 50+ % areas to drag up the national average.
I think you misunderstood what I was getting at, the scope of our discussion was 19th century onwards where for the most part intranational ethnic strife at least as it pertained to western Europe was limited not that internation rivalry and war of domination ceased to exist.
19th century saw a period of relative peace after the concert of Europe, the more major wars afterwards were the wars of Italian unification and the Franco prussian war, as it relates to the 20th century nazi germany it saw the eradication of European Jewish population from a significant percentage of the population in countries like Germany and Poland to almost nonexistent with the survivors mostly moving abroad so seeing how the European Jewish population undergone major growth in the previous century and their newly granted rights and them starting to hold more visible roles in the society it does not negate the hypothesis that I put forward, if anything it confirms it.
El andulus also basically ended with the total decimation of the Muslim population from the iberian peninsula though it surely left some long lasting genetic impact but all in all not the best example to go about.
Edit: kinda forgot about Austro Hungarian empire, the tensions inside led to some very undesirable results at the start of the 20th century to say the least.
Last edited:
Quite a long post to say that you don't actually care about what the Argentina team did. Just be honest next time, it would save you a lot of typing.
I think it's broadly true that SA countries are 'behind' but exaggerated as an excuse.
I am Latin American, I grew up there. 20+ years ago when I was a teenager, we knew what racism was, how a joke could be offensive and wrong, etc. You were just allowed to get away with it more. It was transgressive, but not too transgressive. You knew when to say these things and when not to say them, you just had more leeway in when to say them.
It's similar here, the players are not naive simpletons, they know when they're not supposed to say these things, it just so happens they were caught doing it in private.
“Nothing to see here… let’s all move on”
From a PR point of view it's an unmitigated disaster for the Argentinians, even if it were to be done in an insincere manner they still would have been better of recording an official apology while promising to work on the issues and so on.
I just hope Licha wont say anything on the matter.
“Nothing to see here… let’s all move on”
They just keep digging themselves deeper and deeper into a hole with each comment,. Not the brightest bunch, these Argentinians.