Argentina players singing racist chant targeting French players after Copa America final

tbf, this France nt is full of "African" players "joke" isn't new.
Racism or not, this song is meant to be an insult, not a joke. That is the root of problem. Maybe native Argie don't see it that way but rest of the world do
Yes, it is meant as a racist insult quite obviously. There are some serious mental gymnastics going on to try to say it wasn't meant that way. The whole ridiculous song was horrible, not just one part of it, and they managed to cram in a bunch of insults attacking different people, so I have no idea how anyone can claim there was a constructive message stuck somewhere in there.

The only question is...what should happen next and how should this be investigated. This is not a grey area where we question if they did something wrong or not.
 
Th

That is two different things as I see it. One is first of all positive, as in I am claiming these guys as African, the other is insinuating they are not French.

People can be African and French. As can be American and Chinese/Asian etc...

I think beyond that it is a bit of a silly point to make, there are many different types of people in Africa, it's like saying all Europeans are the same. He is actually doing his cultural identity a bit of disservice in my opinion by lumping everyone in he could.

That's not really it either are positive. With that tweet what Ruto was doing is appeal to the most extremist pan-africans, who have since turned against him because he isn't anti-west enough. The best example I can give you is like a European politician tweeting about the Springboks, listing only the white players and congratulating his European team for winning the Rugby World Cup.
 
If 'rest of the world' means parts of Europe, US, Australia and New Zeeland, then sure. I don't think you'd get in trouble for it many places outside of that.

According to Argentinians black people in France are Africans, so based on the reaction in France it doesn't look like Africans appreciate it either.
 
Call it his African team and putting the flags of the countries of their parents or in multiple cases their grandparents is clearly an insinuating that they are african. In fact it's bit a more than an insinuation.
There is no insinuation - they are ethnically African. This doesn't mean, as Argentina's racist players and fans contend, they aren't French because of it.

Also, inserting their French jerseys reminds you they are French. That image reasserts their French-ness. Good (not great) optics from the Kenyan government press team.

According to Argentinians black people in France are Africans, so based on the reaction in France it doesn't look like Africans appreciate it either.

There's plenty of giant b-words in France willing to support the 'theory'. When they won the WC, le Pen announced they 'had another nationality at heart'. Thankfully, unlike the clown Miliel in Argentina, she did not win.
 
tbf, this France nt is full of "African" players "joke" isn't new. I remember these meme during World cup got thousands likes on twitter.

Racism or not, this song is meant to be an insult, not a joke. That is the root of problem. Maybe native Argie don't see it that way but rest of the world do
Some Spanish fans already used to say this about the French national team, when they lost to them back in 2006. Now they have pictures of Lamine Yamal winning the Euros.
 
I've got a question for people in this thread.

Now I've made it clear to people at my work any time the subject ever comes up how absolutely stupid I think racism is. If anyone ever hints at it I usually start with "gosh, anyone that's racist really must be an absolutely world class moron, how stupid do you have to be to judge someone by where they were born or the colour of their skin?" In order to instantly plant the flag on where I stand before anything gets said that could begin to upset me, there's all kinds in the UK now of course.

But I am not naive and I know that deep down some of the people I work with I don't doubt are racist. Less than 10% or so I hope. There's a lot of hate out there. So if you were ever in a situation where the reverse was true 90% of the people in a room were saying obnoxious things, how would you handle it? I don't believe for a second that the whole Argentine squad is racist, and I think they've got swept up in some nonsense chanting without really thinking about it. But Enzo Fernandez seems to be leading it all and just... wow.
 
This Argentina team gave me the best football memory of my life thus far. When that Final kick sent the ball ripping into the net, the whole world went crazy. Love every member of this squad but obviously singing so publicly was a dumb move by Enzo. Should be smarter. Doesn't take away from their massive achievements in football though.
 
We need a foot in mouth emoji for this
Why? There's loads of posters here saying it isn't offensive. I'm white and it isn't up to me to decide that. If a black person says its offensive, it's offensive and we need to support them, not try and tell them how to feel.
 
White people like Fofana and Kounde to be precise. :+1:
That's my point. Fofana kounde have said its offensive,.so people arguing it isn't is just wrong. Other people can't make that determination for fofana and kounde.

My sarcasm was obviously missed.
 
As someone who’s lived and worked in Latin America, this doesn’t surprise me at all. While there’s racism and colorism all over the continent, nowhere is it so open and brazen as in Argentina.
as someone who has no clue about south america why is it that Argentina has a big problem with it? Is this based on some history or something?
 
Footballers being racist is so unsurprising. Bunch of thick twats a lot of them are
 
People say these things but Argentina has always been a cesspool of racism. The country itself was birthed out of racism for those that know their history. The whitening of Argentina was not that long ago. It is quite surprising why anyone is surprised by this behaviour from the player(s). Given not every Argentianian is racist but fundamentality the country was birthed in racism, they systematically eradicated its black population. I have never cheered for them and generally players from Argentina are not my cup of tea but I have grown to like the Argentinian players that have played for us.
 
The following is the translation of the song (it seems):

"Listen, spread the word;
They play in France, but they are all from Angola;
How nice it is! They are going to run;
They are 'cometravas'*, like fecking Mbappé;
Their mom is Nigerian;
Their dad, Cameroonian.
But in the document ..Nationality: French".


*cometravas is a slang term that loosely translates to someone who likes fecking transgender people.

The above is transphobic for sure which makes it quite distasteful. The heat that this video gets should be about this.

But, Racist? Are we sure?
  • Could this be more of a mocking of how France poaches players and talents from all over Africa and yet "we" beat them?
  • Is the premise of the chant any different from the one used by Trevor Noah for this segment? Did Africa Just Win The World Cup? | The Daily Show With Trevor Noah (youtube.com)
  • When USA beat Pakistan in the T20 cricket world cup. Many were joking about how India's H1B team (and not USA) beat Pakistan. Is the Argentina song about the nationality of the player's parents any different?
These players have exposure, have colleagues and friends who have roots in Africa and play for Franch/Netherlands/Germany etc. Can we not assume the best in them and think that all this is not coming from a bad place. Is it possible this is healthy banter?

They're actually born in France. Mbappe's mum's Algerian and father's Cameroonian but he's born and bred in Paris...like the other players of African heritage. Totally different to ex junior Indian players representing USA in cricket(and even that' sno big deal). It's far right stuff....you can't be French unless you're white or don't have parents/grandparents/ great great great great grand parents born on the African continent.
 

This Argentina team gave me the best football memory of my life thus far. When that Final kick sent the ball ripping into the net, the whole world went crazy. Love every member of this squad but obviously singing so publicly was a dumb move by Enzo. Should be smarter. Doesn't take away from their massive achievements in football though.
So, singing the song privately makes it ok then ? He was just dumb, ah ok…I’m with ya
 
I thought Nick Millers article in the athletic was quite poignant .

As will be depressingly familiar, it is the black players that have been left to do the emotional work, to carry the mental baggage of having to deal with a racist incident. It enforces the idea that racism is a problem only for black people, when it’s a blight that shames us all. It isolates the black players, suggesting that it’s not something that anyone else has to worry about.

Imagine the power that would come from a white player standing up, unprompted, and condemning the song. It would provide a valuable symbol, but it would be more than just a surface-level thing. It would have genuine import.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/56...-football-silence/?source=user_shared_article
 
People say these things but Argentina has always been a cesspool of racism. The country itself was birthed out of racism for those that know their history. The whitening of Argentina was not that long ago. It is quite surprising why anyone is surprised by this behaviour from the player(s). Given not every Argentianian is racist but fundamentality the country was birthed in racism, they systematically eradicated its black population. I have never cheered for them and generally players from Argentina are not my cup of tea but I have grown to like the Argentinian players that have played for us.
Strange, cause it was the first country to abolish slavery. England, France, Portugal and Spain did what they wanted in Africa. And that wasn’t being kind precisely.
 
Couldn't one say the same for Argentina? His mother is from Italy and father from Germany but he plays for Argentina?
 
This Argentina team gave me the best football memory of my life thus far. When that Final kick sent the ball ripping into the net, the whole world went crazy. Love every member of this squad but obviously singing so publicly was a dumb move by Enzo. Should be smarter. Doesn't take away from their massive achievements in football though.
What a special take. Well done you. Singing a racist song is disgraceful whether it is done in private or public. Their footballing achievements mean nothing if they don’t have respect for fellow human beings.
 
Why? There's loads of posters here saying it isn't offensive. I'm white and it isn't up to me to decide that. If a black person says it’s offensive, it's offensive and we need to support them, not try and tell them how to feel.
Well said
 
Why? There's loads of posters here saying it isn't offensive. I'm white and it isn't up to me to decide that. If a black person says its offensive, it's offensive and we need to support them, not try and tell them how to feel.
This whole issue was brought to the world's attention by a black player complaining about it. It's the first post...
 
This Argentina team gave me the best football memory of my life thus far. When that Final kick sent the ball ripping into the net, the whole world went crazy. Love every member of this squad but obviously singing so publicly was a dumb move by Enzo. Should be smarter. Doesn't take away from their massive achievements in football though.
It's genuinely impressive how people keep coming into this thread and one upping each other, in terms of utter stupidity.
 
Strange, cause it was the first country to abolish slavery. England, France, Portugal and Spain did what they wanted in Africa. And that wasn’t being kind precisely.
Why are their no black people in Argentina then since they had slaves? You did not pause to ask yourself that question?
Anyway not for this thread
 
Enzo was wrong, but I understand the song as a mockery against France needing africans to win, not against black people.
So the song is a mockery against France needing Africans to win, and in effect implying Argentina are somehow a more pure bred/real country compared to France?
 
Actually, it's about ethics in colonialism... gave me a good laugh.
As the young people say, it seems France lives "rent free" in the heads of some over there.
 
People bringing colonialism to the discussion should bear in mind that it wasn't France the country who criticized the team for the racist chant, it was the players who felt attacked by the racist song.

France remains a colonial superpower in effective terms, but it doesn't play a role in the discussion, it was the players who took issue with the song and they have the right to point it out and Enzo should receive a suspension + fine. Once again I don't believe him to be racist, just an idiot who did not realize what was he was singing could offend another person.
 
Recently, Mexico fans have poured down a lot of hate against Argentina fans (remember WC2022 threads). Most common mockery was calling them out "waitresses, poor or Hungertines". Also a lot of racial/ethnic slurs.

Although I feel that rivalry comes from bitterness and resentfulness from Mexicans towards Argentina fans due to their success in the sport and we also gave very bad example (the "eeeh put0 chant"), that doesn't mean most Argentinians are genuinely racist and disregard other 'brown' Latin Americans as inferior, just because most of their direct ancestors are European and they exterminated almost all their local indigenous people. I know not all Argies are like this, I have a few friends from over there, but I don't know why they detest so much black people.
 
What the feck are you lot on about?
Argentina is apparently special and Argentinians can't truly be racist. Also, white people from former colonizing counties can't judge others, and we'll gloss over the black people directly addressed by the song that do feel offended.

I feel that's a reasonable summary.
 
Argentina is apparently special and Argentinians can't truly be racist. Also, white people from former colonizing counties can't judge others, and we'll gloss over the black people directly addressed by the song that do feel offended.

I feel that's a reasonable summary.

You replied just before I deleted my post!

I decided quickly that I didn't care what the feck they are on about.
 
For people interested in the lack of afro-descendants in Argentina, here is a great study on the subject.

Basically, Argentina did buy slaves from Africa. The phenotipycal factors were diluted by intermarriage and assimilation, while a fragment of the afro descendant population died in wars, famines and pandemics. This, combined with very large migration from Spain and Italy and changes in the way the census was conducted effectively "erased" them from history. You can read more about it here:https://digitalcollections.sit.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1158&context=isp_collection

That study is in spanish, but you can feed it to an ai to get a summary.

The afro-argentinian identity is currently undergoing a bit of a revival, so not everything is bad news.
 
For people interested in the lack of afro-descendants in Argentina, here is a great study on the subject.
Basically, Argentina did buy slaves from Africa. The phenotipycal factors were diluted by intermarriage and assimilation, while a fragment of the afro descendant population died in wars, famines and pandemics. This, combined with very large migration from Spain and Italy and changes in the way the census was conducted effectively "erased" them from history. You can read more about it here:https://digitalcollections.sit.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1158&context=isp_collection

The afro-argentinian identity is currently undergoing a bit of a revival, so not everything is bad news.
It is almost as if slavery has been studied by historians.
 
Why are their no black people in Argentina then since they had slaves? You did not pause to ask yourself that question?
Anyway not for this thread

Simply because African slaves weren’t brought to this part of South America as much as other places and slavery Has been abolished early, most of them died in wars. Argentina, chile, Paraguay , peru, Bolivia do not have a particulsr amount of African ancestry. The Europeans that came here in the first place decided it was better to exterminate the natives, although most descendants have native blood, in less amount than those of Bolivia or Peru, or Mexico who doesn’t have black people among their population. That story you read is just political agenda and I won’t get into that.

It wasn’t Argentina the country that colonialized. Divided and exploited Africa and all Africans. Or the one that made human zoos in the 1900s or African expositions in 1 9 9 4. That’s France, among other countries. I’m just saying this because you’re talking a load of no sense about a whole country you probably don’t know.


It’s a very tough things to ask you to understand the some people see the world. There are more than one way being racist in my opinion. You can’t judge the same Way people who is racist through hate and people that doesn’t have hatred but are too ignorant in the matter and don’t understand the weight of words and how they can hurt other people. As many posters have said here, Argentina has never went through racism problems internally, as it has happened in other places, and that added to the culture of football where chants tend to be offensive about anything and with no limits, take us to these situations. Besides they use terms that other people would find offensive between them, just like Cavani used the word negrito as an affective form.

It’s easy to stand in your position and judge people ignoring their culture. All these people need is education because there’s no hatred inside these things. These are just stupid things they do without understanding how bad it can be. That’s how you can build a better society. Of course there will be real racial hatred as it happens all over the world sadly. But as people who live here in Argentina has posted, the vast majority of people just need education and have no hatred at all. I’m sure Enzo Fernandez is not a bad person, he’s basically an ignorant kid who thought it was nice to sing a football chant and doesn’t understand how bad this can be. Of course it’s a racism case and he must be banned for a time, fined, but I’m sure that with education this will be erradicated since it’s not a hated based problem.

Edit (since I can’t post more messages): Argentina is a country that makes football chants all the time and they generally sing about things from the past, or use old chants aswell against England, Brazil, who are considered their rivals. The chants have sports related lyrics most of the time but sometimes they can be stupid as it happened with France. That’s why they keep singing the song. In fact in every single game Argentina fans sing against England and Brazil. It’s the way people are, when it comes to football.

I hope you don’t get me wrong, this is terrible, but some people are acting as if Argentina and all of Argentinians are the devil. I’m glad people who lived here said many concepts i said before.


Edit: wanted to clearify the slavery part, which wasn’t my main objective regarding to my post.
 
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The song is racist, Argentina has a big racism problem. Just google monkey gesture fans Argentina, there literally is one case per Libertadores game. I'm not talking like once or twice, I'm talking at least 100 times it has happened; also, one player was arrested for calling Grafite a monkey as well. It's just that Europe literally didn't seem to care and Argentina was not in the spotlight that much.