He seems to be saying it as a matter of pride, whereas the Argie chant was done out of pure mockery based on racial grounds.
Argentina players singing racist chant targeting French players after Copa America final
- Thread starter Gandalf Greyhame
- Start date
He seems to be saying it as a matter of pride, whereas the Argie chant was done out of pure mockery based on racial grounds.
Absolutely. I can tell you this because I have family members that are like that, they are racist, they dislike white people, they denigrate them at every opportunity and they also consider that any african decent born abroad has to consider himself african or he is a traitor.
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Yes, that where I am on Messi as well. The fact he wasn't on the bus doesn't remove my suspicion in this case. He has been on that bus when they have been singing the same junk. Whether he was an active participant or sat idle, for sure he has done nothing to stop it in the past.
Messi is the father figure of that Argentine team, if he said knock it off and dont be a bunch of racist cnts, I am pretty sure that would happen.
Not the first time sadly with Messi. A few days earlier...where was his support statement for Bombito and where is his condemnation of his fans that racially abused Bombito?
Messi is I suspect just more clever about it than Fernandez.
Ah, so the issue is that Argentinians football fans are even worse songwriters than regular football fans, not even able to stay on topic for a sentence or two, completely incapable of telling a coherent story. The song is actually saying "France is a poor footballing nation, having to import black players to win for them. This is in no meant to reflect badly on the black players mentioned, who by the way are tr*nnyfeckers and f*gs."
Compare that to other dodgy songs, like for instance the Park one:
"Park, you're South Korean, which means you eat dogs. That's pretty disgusting, but it's at least better than being from Liverpool, because then you'd be so poor that you'd eat rats to survive while living in government provided housing"
It's a trash, racist chant, and even here they manage to tell a coherent story.
These contortions make no sense, and it's pretty sad to see the attempts. The whole point of the chant is to be as offensive as possible, in the charming Argentinian football tradition of "everything is fair game in an attempt to get under your skin, no exceptions", but when people react to the provocation (the whole point in the first place!) the backtracking begins. It's so cowardly.
Enzo was wrong, but I understand the song as a mockery against France needing africans to win, not against black people.
Exactly. It really is quite painful that it needs to be pointed out that celebrating the African heritage of various French players is not equivalent to ridiculing it.
I never made any excuses for Suárez. In fact, before the 2010 World Cup when he had no widespread controversial track record whatsoever I said I didn't want him at United because he would be trouble. We had an embarrassment of riches as well, mind.
I've always been clear he resorted to racist language to wind up an opponent and was rightly punished for it.
Where I did defend him was on not agreeing he was racist per se or a despicable human being.
I did get stuck into the nuances of "negrito" in the same way many of us did re: Cavani, but never as a defence of what was said to Evra.
For the most part, I blamed Liverpool being completely useless and handling the matter in a way that was far more concerning and absurd than what could be expected of a kid with minimal education, from an impoverished background, who moved away from his parents home and into club digs in the city when he was 15 or so.
Read below as a sample, but go knock yourself out digging up my "excuses for Suárez". I never excused him, just laid out nuances to be considered by those readily drawing out the pitchforks or, characteristically, not being at all racist when extrapolating one guy's actions to an entire nation being racist.
Maybe you could let Jackson himself know then because he's given his support to Enzo.
How does it make it any better then? It is even worse when you put it that way, because that implies, apart from implying they are not French, that these players have no say whatsoever in who they want to represent. As if they are less of a human beings, and that they are French just because they are good at football.
100% this. This notion that black/african/arabic people can't be racist or make ill-informed remarks is so stupid. The shit i hear some of my relatives say when a France game is on is exhausting...
"africans"
Yeah, you're being deliberately obtuse.
Griezmann is not a gamechanger then I guess?
Well I hope that his kid(s) will never have European citizenship then because Enzo and friends will probably mock them for being from Angola.
I’m not saying the song is ok or right, or accurate. I just don’t think Enzo is racist.
You really don't have to give the benefit of the doubt to Argentinians when it comes to racism.
That's how I felt initially. However as Argentine has a mostly white population, and it's obvious that their players view France also as a "white" country, the essence of the song can be described as: "You French white boys need help from black people from Africa to play football, while we are all white." And it can be sensed that "black people from Africa" here is implied to be subhuman. Therefore the racism is undeniable, albeit subtler than usual racial insults.
Thought it was a national pastime
They are the smartest bigots, they know how to behave in public but have zero filters when they speak in their own tongues or behind closed doors. People should pay closer attention to african politics, it becomes very obvious, a large amount are racists, xenophobes, ethnophobes and generally massive bigots because dividing people through faith or any other thing is also very common.
There's a world of difference between celebrating a person's heritage and mocking it. Somalis in the UK being proud of Mo Farah being a Brit with Somali heritage is wildly different from some Reform UK bloke telling Mo Farah he isn't a real Brit because he is from Somalia.
Racism goes both ways
The point was about the song, the song is racist. Now you make your own judgement on whether someone singing a racist song is racist, I tend to think that they are especially when it's an 18 month years old tune. They have had enough time to think carefully about it.
Probably the worst example you could have used to support anything here. That guy has near to zero respect in his own region. He is what you would call a quintessential house slave. He recently went crawling his ass to Washington to make his country a NATO ally, so that they can use his country men as mercenaries and fodder for various imperial projects, and make it easy for him to get loans that he can enrich himself on. It is not a surprise that he has such a backward view on migration and humanity in general.
This is an entirely reasonable description of the dynamics involved here. You can argue that the sentiments expressed in the song probably don't fully reflect the world views of the morons on that team bus this is absolutely what they were singing.
People are never gonna stop pretending that, unfortunately. I must have seen a dozen responses in this thread along those lines. They've made their minds up.
Apparently, getting all the countries wrong (none of them are from Angola, which is not a former French colony, except Camavinga, who moved to France when he was two; Mbappe's mother is Algerian, not Nigerian, as Nigeria is not a former French colony, etc.) and ignoring the fact that they were almost all born and raised in France (hence the passport reading 'nationality; French') is just a further sign of respect to them and a dig at the French Football Association.
You're giving them too much credit, a good chunk of them know exactly what they're doing. It feels like I'm reading the Daily Mail comment section.
Out of this car crash of a thread.
I think it's definitely unfair (xenophobic?) to categorise all (or even the majority of) Argentinians as racist but it's fair to say there is a good amount of casual racism in Argentine society. Usually more based in ignorance than actual hatred.
Anybody making excuses for Enzo Fernandez and his cohorts is nothing more than a racist. I'm sorry, if you're defending racism as okay then you are clearly a racist.
They are more conspicuous for obvious reasons. You can make a case for Hernandez, since he has a Spaniard surname and should be more recognizable than say Giroud or Griezmann, but even then it's not necessarily a proof of racism, since you'd likely use the more extreme examples to make your point.
How Sub-Saharans enslaved other Black tribes(and no, that not started after their contact with Europeans) and that mostly of the slaves in America were bought from Africans are not talked enough. Amerindians too; they even made pacts with Portugueses to help exterminating other tribes in exchange for their guidance in the forest, and not many were as brutal doing that in world history(the skinning and dismemberment of children alive are examples of their practices). Every ethnic group has an ugly history if you search enough.
Yes, if you are a person with zero empathy, you surely can. I hope other people are more empathetic when interpreting whatever you say.
I'll give you a hint as to what those obvious reasons are. It starts with r and ends with m.
"obvious reasons"
This person is making excuses for the Transatlantic slave trade, in which an estimated 100 million Africans died in transit, and those that made it were subjected to centuries of abuse and bigotry. Incredible. Next you'll be telling us that the Holocaust is not a big deal because of Jewish collaboration with Nazi Germany (which existed).
Being conspicuous shouldn't actually lead to the suggestions made in the song unless you add a particular idiology. To make it particularly obvious, is someone nationality or culture exclusively linked to the color of their skin?
He's not exactly saying they're not French, is he?
He is insinuating it and people really shouldn't defend it.
Not to mention, included homophobic and transphobic taunting alongside the racial slurs.
Sad whataboutery is being to distract from Argentina's racist WC winners.
Not surprising, though.
Showing the French team in their France jerseys may not be the best way of 'insinuating' the French aren't French.
Small wonder there are protests about his rule in Kenya.
Call it his African team and putting the flags of the countries of their parents or in multiple cases their grandparents is clearly an insinuating that they are african. In fact it's bit a more than an insinuation.
Th
That is two different things as I see it. One is first of all positive, as in I am claiming these guys as African, the other is insinuating they are not French.
People can be African and French. As can be American and Chinese/Asian etc...
I think beyond that it is a bit of a silly point to make, there are many different types of people in Africa, it's like saying all Europeans are the same. He is actually doing his cultural identity a bit of disservice in my opinion by lumping everyone in he could.
That is two different things as I see it. One is first of all positive, as in I am claiming these guys as African, the other is insinuating they are not French.
People can be African and French. As can be American and Chinese/Asian etc...
I think beyond that it is a bit of a silly point to make, there are many different types of people in Africa, it's like saying all Europeans are the same. He is actually doing his cultural identity a bit of disservice in my opinion by lumping everyone in he could.
tbf, this France nt is full of "African" players "joke" isn't new. I remember these meme during World cup got thousands likes on twitter.
Racism or not, this song is meant to be an insult, not a joke. That is the root of problem. Maybe native Argie don't see it that way but rest of the world do
Racism or not, this song is meant to be an insult, not a joke. That is the root of problem. Maybe native Argie don't see it that way but rest of the world do
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