Were other players stopped from scoring in the same games?
The agenda here is insane. He had 1.5 season of top flight football and has 38G/A at 20 years old. “Simply not good enough “
17
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 25
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 1
The agenda here is insane. He had 1.5 season of top flight football and has 38G/A at 20 years old. “Simply not good enough “
Garnacho avgs 0.5 dribbles per game, that's less than almost every winger in the premier league.
Truly elite wingers can make 3+. Hazard routinely was around 4, Neymar and Messi at 5 etc etc. The avg dribbles per game for his position is 1.74 and since the start of last season his number is 1.47 so he's significantly below avg.
He has given no full backs a torrid time with his dribbling and what's incredible to watch is how opposition teams are specifially setting up vs United to allow CB's possession and then pack the centre of the pitch week after week because they know United are weak in the wide areas.
No team would set up against opposition who had elite levels wingers like they do vs us because leaving FB's 1v1 with that winger would get you crushed. It's all day every day vs Garnacho and Rashford.
Well Diallo got subbed on in the 84th minute when United were winning 7-0, Hojlund didn't play at all so actually yes they were.Were other players stopped from scoring in the same games?
The agenda here is insane. He had 1.5 season of top flight football and has 38G/A at 20 years old. “Simply not good enough “
He wasn't as bad as many of you are making out, there were plenty of worse players.
Are you going to post that exact same diagram after every match he plays, all season long?I told you the last time you posted it how pointless it was. Please don’t post it after every fecking match.
Ah he was pretty crap. Probably the worst performance of any starting player who wasn’t a goalkeeper or defender. He’s having a bad run of form recently. Not the only one, to be fair.
Grealish does a lot of work "behind the scenes" draw opponents to him, freeing space for the other attackers in the process, winning fouls and is often at the start of a movement that leads to a goal. He was one of Man City's essential pieces to win the Treble.
Goals and assists are not the end all and be all in football, and I discard anyone coming at me just with numbers.
But I do agree that Pep stifled his game game quite a bit for the sake of his system. He's not the maverick with a free role he was at Villa. The same happened to Mahrez. Grealish also never was a 100M player and Man City obviously overpaid for him.
Nevertheless, comparing Grealish to Garnacho borders on blasphemy. In terms of technique, footballing IQ, end product and vision, they have nothing in common and age is not an excuse.
I'm noping out of this thread as I don't want to appear as someone who's just winding up MU fans about one of their favourites. We can gladly resume this discussion in the general football forum.
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I''d have to give that to Kobbie by a distance personally, he was a passenger all game and Ugarte had to do his running for him, he played with zero intensity. Garnacho at least got into good positions, won fouls in dangerous positons and was involved in the goal. Feel some of the posts are a bit over the top compared to others who didn't try.
I used to be a pro Garnacho fan, but I have strong doubts about him, there is certainly a place for these type of players, but they shouldn't be the star players in bottom half teams. They lack team play skills, but can provide the edge. A team like united needs such a player, but the quality has to be Ronaldo'esque.
Fair enough. Where do you see him in Amorim’s system going forward?
And also he is the person who has the most chances. He's great at getting into good positions and then needs to be more deadly (despite still scoring).
Rashford doesn't seem to be the answer either as he should be out the door waaaay before Rashford.
I meant to say that he's not playing/being used to his strenghts in this setup and I don't see him as a person who will just wait at United for that to change.
I thought Kobbie was decent in the first half. Completely gassed not long into the second half. Which is a recurring problem and a bit of a worry.
Garnacho looked quite sharp for maybe 5-10 minutes but then everything he did went wrong from that point on.
Not a huge problem for either of them, mind you. They’re both very young.
I told you the last time you posted it how pointless it was. Please don’t post it after every fecking match.
Last time you claimed it was pointless because Savio played for Man City and Doue hasn't had a good season this year and I told you the graph shows the last 365 days of football so 90% of games for Savio were for Girona and Doue at Rennes, both massively outperformed Garnacho, you didn't respond to that post though.
I have plenty more, you just name the elite level player or prospect and I can show you how poorly he matches up.
Here's Garnacho vs:
Fatawu: https://postimg.cc/XXj1XtTG
Cherki: https://postimg.cc/7fcKshb0
Estevao:https://postimg.cc/GHsFpQhT
Wirtz: https://postimg.cc/8FwWYXw9/ea3a77de
I mean I can keep going but it's only going to get worse and worse.
No, I told you that the Doue data you were using had him compared with midfielders, not wingers. And obviously Savio will have had more touches, passes etc having played for City over the past year.
Here’s a thought. Why not compare him to players the same age, playing the same position, in the same league?
He's twice the player coming on as a sub than he is as a starter. But regardless of that, I can't see him fitting into an Amorim system long term. Doesn't have the defensive capabilities or physicality to play wing back. Doesn't have the technical ability or eye for a pass to play as one of the 10s. Where does he go from there?
Fair points. I just don't believe in his so-called potential.
He could and would improve under the right coach, but his ceiling is definitely much lower than most people think.
Savio only joined City in the summer, he hasn't played for them for a year or even close to it.
The graphic shows 365 days of football so 90% of his games were in La Liga which makes your "of course his stats are better he plays for city" argument null.
The idea that I can't compare players at the same age because 1 is playing in La Liga and the other in the premier league is fairly lauaghable. Are we sure Vinicius is a a good player if he hasn't done it in the premiership?
Here's 20 year old Fatawu vs Garnacho: https://postimg.cc/XXj1XtTG
Fatawu made a premier league high 12 dribbles vs United when we played them at old trafford. He's an elite talent playing who massively outperforms Garnacho despite playing for a much worse team.
If your logic that Garnacho's stats won't be the same as Savio because he plays for City then how do you explain Fatwu and his output for Leicester?
I can't embed media but youtube Fatawu vs Manchester United and watch what an actual elite prospect looks like.
Are you even looking at the diagrams you’re sharing?
Look at all things Fatawu is doing more often than Garnacho. The vast majority of them are defensive. Now take a moment to think who does more defending. A wide player at Leicester? Or one at Manchester United?
For the rest of their stats there’s not much between them. Garnacho’s better at some things, Fatawu’s better at others. Fatawu more likely to assist, Garnacho more likely to score. I would be worried about the pass completion % of the Leicester player if I was considering signing him, mind you. Not good to be such an extreme outlier on such an important stat.
Anyway, where were you? Oh yeah, one of these players is an “actual elite prospect” and one is “simply not good enough”. Classic.
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Are you even looking at the diagrams you’re sharing?
Look at all things Fatawu is doing more often than Garnacho. The vast majority of them are defensive. Now take a moment to think who does more defending. A wide player at Leicester? Or one at Manchester United?
For the rest of their stats there’s not much between them. Garnacho’s better at some things, Fatawu’s better at others. Fatawu more likely to assist, Garnacho more likely to score. I would be worried about the pass completion % of the Leicester player if I was considering signing him, mind you. Not good to be such an extreme outlier on such an important stat.
Anyway, where were you? Oh yeah, one of these players is an “actual elite prospect” and one is “simply not good enough”. Classic.
Yes I am looking at the diagrams I'm posting. Why don't you tell me what's wrong with Savio and his last 365 days of play?
If Fatawu is mainly doing defensive actions then why does he average 5x as many dribbles as Garnacho? I mean you said it yourself, who spends more time defending a wide player for Leicester or United? So despite spending far more time defending Fatwu massively outperforms Garnacho in Dribbles/progressive carries/progressive passes/assists.
Just imagine what he'd do in a team who dominated the ball.
Not much between them....... except that Fatawu is in the 99th percentile for dribblers which puts him in the same category as Vinicius whereas Garnacho is in the 46th percentile which puts him around the level of Trossard.... By your logic there's not much between the dribbling of Garnacho and Vinicius. Go home you're drunk.
So let's see if I follow the logic here, we can't compare Garnacho to Savio because he played for City this year even though the stats show most of his play was not at City. But the reason these stats wouldn't be fair is because by playing for City of course his attacking stats would be better as it's a better team.
But yet when we compare Garnacho to Fatawu who unquestionably plays for a much worse team yet still outperforms Garnacho it's what exactly?
Basically everything you've said demonstrates you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Not much between a player in the 99th and 46th percentile in one of the most significant attacking categories is like thinking there's no difference between a 30 and 5 goal a season striker.
What? He clearly has. Ben White got twisted in and out at OT last season. Garnacho gave Gusto a torrid time at Stamford Bridge. I'm not sure why you're trying to rewrite history, acting as if he has never been a thorn in the opposition's side. I remember speaking to a City fan after the FA Cup final (the one they won with Gundogan, not the one we won where Garnacho played his part) and he said that only after Garnacho came off the bench, he started to worry about conceding from open play, as he was the only one causing them problems by taking on their defenders.
You’re all over the place. So many words. So few good points. Fatawu dribbles more than Garnacho. Thus he is clearly an “elite talent” and Garnacho (who passes the ball more accurately and scores more goals) is “simply not good enough”. In your bizarre world where there is apparently only one way to play that position. Genius. I’ll leave you to it. This is boring.I still really like and rate Garnacho highly.
He was useless today.
He was useless today.
Correction Garnacho passes backwards more than Fatawu. Not forwards.
He's prob better at passing backwards than Saka/Salah/Son too.
We lost the game 1-0 and Ben White finished with a higher statistical rating than Garnacho who took more shots on his own than the entire United team.
This type of lazy/emotional analysis is a huge part of the problem at United when we're competing against clubs like Liverpool/City/Arsenal who use a data driven approach to recruitments and crush us.
The same person on this forum asking why we spend 80m on Anthony is defending Garnacho to the death.
Oh well if Ben White finished the game that his team won with a higher statistical rating than the winger he was up against then I guess that puts to bed any suggestions that Garnacho was a tricky opponent for him. Do you remember the game or are you going off the player ratings you've seen online?
The irony of calling someone else's analysis "lazy" whilst in the same post referring to a United player as "Anthony". Did you forget to cross-reference his name with your go-to 'postimg.cc' source?
Somebody needs to sit the kid down and tell him that he has yet to reach the levels of prime CR7. Just an incredibly selfish selfish player.
The very suggestion that an entire years worth of data that details every second of play/pass/dribble/shot would be invalidated or could be countered by "I saw him playing against Arsenal last season and he was good" should be absurd enough that it really doesn't deserve a response.
Even if he had a good game which the analytics doesn't support you wouldn't be making the point you think you are. Munoz had a higher performing game vs City this weekend, is he good enough for United?
Claiming that he's good enough because of a one off game when the data shows that over the past year he's performed worse than Fatawu/Savio/Estevao/Cherki/Yamal/Wirtz/Doue/Saka/Palmer/Son/Doku/Kudus is laughable and one of the big problems at United.
Yeah you got me with the typo, congrats. Let's give Garnacho a new 5 year deal on Rashford wages while Liverpool/Arsenal and City all use data instead of hot takes and vibes then wonder how we ended up getting wrecked 5-0 by them.... again.
He would be in Sevilla, Valencia in 2 years. Weak and lack any real quality other than the odd goal
The hate this guy gets is so unproportional to his performances its pathetic.
as a winger, his dribbling ability almost non existent (around 0.5 per game), a typical EPL winger has 1.5-2, a good dribbler has 3-4 (young ronaldo was in that range). messi was 5-6.
His off the ball movement is probably the best out of all the players in the team. He always manages to get himself into good positions, but then he squanders them a lot of the time.
A good example is Hojlund's goal yesterday. Great work by Garnacho to find that space, but then he really should be scoring from there. Had Rasmus not managed to follow up then Garnacho would have caught a lot of flack for that moment.
A good example is Hojlund's goal yesterday. Great work by Garnacho to find that space, but then he really should be scoring from there. Had Rasmus not managed to follow up then Garnacho would have caught a lot of flack for that moment.
I blame the fans for his ego spiraling out of control. A 19 yr old kid, done nothing for the club yet, getting his name chanted by match going fans at Old Trafford, the manager getting booed when he's subbed, singing for him to come on when games aren't going well etc. We did this to ourselves.
Now he thinks he's some world-class superstar player and that's reflected in his incredibly selfish gameplay. He thinks he's the star of the team, next Ronaldo hell some fans were clamoring for him to be given the number 7. The truth is that he's currently barely above average. Not even more talented that Amad who's quite honestly 1 or 2 levels above him. Someone needs to sit him down and talk to him.
Now he thinks he's some world-class superstar player and that's reflected in his incredibly selfish gameplay. He thinks he's the star of the team, next Ronaldo hell some fans were clamoring for him to be given the number 7. The truth is that he's currently barely above average. Not even more talented that Amad who's quite honestly 1 or 2 levels above him. Someone needs to sit him down and talk to him.
Nah its down to management. Take Ronaldo as an example. Every man and his dog knew how ridiculously talented he was and how desperate we were for a top quality RW. Yet during the early years SAF would send him on the bench every time Ronaldo dribbled too much. It was so predictable that it was almost like reading a script. Ronaldo could be MOM in the previous game but if he dribbled too much or he lost the ball then rest assured that he won't play in the next game. Don't think we had talent back then to put him on the bench either. The alternative to Ronaldo was often Darren Fletcher who was as comfortable as RW as Moyes was sitting in SAF's chair.
SAF knew how to pull the sting out of the hype. He paid the price of that with Beckham and he was hellbent not to pass from it ever again. We need that sort of discipline back
Please say this is satire??
Absolutely not. Garnacho' s ego is out of control. Immediately after the game yesterday he was on Twitter liking tweets criticizing Martinez for getting beat for the first goal, he's got a history of that as well. He liked tweets from Mark Golbridge and Fabrizio criticizing Ten Hag for subbing him and had to apologize for that.
Remember that this is a 20yr old who has achieved nothing of note in his career, acting like a superstar player who can get away with things like this. Just because he starts for the current Man Utd and gets his name chanted in the stadium makes him feel like he can get away with rotten behavior and that should never happen. As i said, just watch him when he plays, he's the most selfish player in the team. Amorim needs to get to him and quickly.
He's our top goalscorer this season, he works his socks off every game and is consistently the most dangerous player on the pitch.
He's a young player so will inevitably make mistakes or the wrong judgement call.
As for people singing his name, that's general behaviour from match going fans, are you expecting fans to not sing songs about players now??
He didn't have a great game but I thought our attack looked better with him rather than rashford. Would like to see him as a wing back but I guess his defensive side could be the issue.
liking tweets on twitter criticizing your teammates? is he brainless?
I think you’re being a little harsh @TempusFugit
Though I do think his ego needs checking a bit.
I think he was massively overplayed last season by ETH and not pulled out the team during periods of underperformance. That isn’t good for a young player.
But yeah Amorim needs to get into him sharpish. Iron out all the poor and selfish decision making in the final third. As well as knowing when to pass and when to take someone one. He plays like a player given free rein to do what he wants and that can’t be the case let alone for a kid with still lots to prove.
Though I do think his ego needs checking a bit.
I think he was massively overplayed last season by ETH and not pulled out the team during periods of underperformance. That isn’t good for a young player.
But yeah Amorim needs to get into him sharpish. Iron out all the poor and selfish decision making in the final third. As well as knowing when to pass and when to take someone one. He plays like a player given free rein to do what he wants and that can’t be the case let alone for a kid with still lots to prove.
His contract doesn't expire until June 2028. No one is advocating for him to get a renewal anytime soon, and certainly not on Rashford's wages. It might do your health some good to stop getting wound up over fictitious scenarios that you've concocted in your own head.