I agree with your general point about the comparisons between young Ronaldo and Garnacho being absurd, but I think you're being over the top. Put it this way, imagine a player who fits your exact description. There's no way that player could have Garnacho's output. The deficiencies you mentioned are only true, sometimes. I reckon Anthony Gordon is a good comparison for what Garnacho could be in a couple of years. Is that player good enough to be a starter for the time we wanna be? No. Could be be a reliable backup? Absolutely.
17
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 25
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 4
- Yellow cards
- 1
I'm wondering if he could be converted into a striker. 
His output? He barely has any. Average players put out his output.
Those weaknesses are always true, it just depends if his opponent gives him lots of space.
Well you need good finishing for that to work.I'm wondering if he could be converted into a striker.
Maybe a Prem loan. His Ego probably won’t take it. Everton…Leicester…Fulham?
Yong and lernin.
I think he's going to end up being a victim of the new formation, just don't see a natural role for him atm.
He's young so has time to try and change, but he needs to start quick.
He's young so has time to try and change, but he needs to start quick.
I think the management of him is key. Hes 20 and has had over 100 appearances. But it says a lot that under ETH he was the one we looked mostly to, for creation from the attacking sense. Its like a goal every five games. And some assists too.
Hes not the finish article, but one thing Fergie used to do with Ronaldo is give him the whole Xmas period off when he was younger and then challenge him to meet targets. We have seriously over used and over relied on him under the ETH run. Having a change of managers and formations wont help him either.
The one thing you can say about him is he keeps on trying if it doesnt work out, even if it frustrates us. I think the aspects of him being wasteful in front of goal or not picking the right option can be be annoying especially if it happen at 0-0 or 0-1.. But im hopeful we will use him correctly now especially as you could say this season is now a writeoff in terms of league and a good learning period for us before next season
Hes not the finish article, but one thing Fergie used to do with Ronaldo is give him the whole Xmas period off when he was younger and then challenge him to meet targets. We have seriously over used and over relied on him under the ETH run. Having a change of managers and formations wont help him either.
The one thing you can say about him is he keeps on trying if it doesnt work out, even if it frustrates us. I think the aspects of him being wasteful in front of goal or not picking the right option can be be annoying especially if it happen at 0-0 or 0-1.. But im hopeful we will use him correctly now especially as you could say this season is now a writeoff in terms of league and a good learning period for us before next season
There’s a weird drive to hate on this kid based on people’s insecurities what seems to be around social media hype.
We all have eyes as much as he idolises CR7 he’s never had the ability to back it up but unless your 7 and under I don’t think anyone ever felt this was true.
He has great attributes that will make him an amazing player but he needs to fill out as a man and improve his decision making.
There is no rush, we have seen many players have the same trajectory be that Gareth Bale, Mo Salah etc. He might not make that level, he might not make it here.. but people’s lack of vision is just bone idle.
He fits in as a 10 but as stated above he lacks the physical attributes and decision making to be a threat. He does have the skillset, just needs rewiring.
We all have eyes as much as he idolises CR7 he’s never had the ability to back it up but unless your 7 and under I don’t think anyone ever felt this was true.
He has great attributes that will make him an amazing player but he needs to fill out as a man and improve his decision making.
There is no rush, we have seen many players have the same trajectory be that Gareth Bale, Mo Salah etc. He might not make that level, he might not make it here.. but people’s lack of vision is just bone idle.
He fits in as a 10 but as stated above he lacks the physical attributes and decision making to be a threat. He does have the skillset, just needs rewiring.
Just swap Diallo and Garnacho's role.
Very simple.
Very simple.
Just saw this today. Just an example of what a potential star at 20 actually looks like (doesn’t really have anything to do with Martial either, could find a lot of top level 20 year old wingers to put here).
I just don’t see remotely the same level of natural ability from Garnacho. If he wasn’t an academy kid plenty would happily be looking to replace him
I just don’t see remotely the same level of natural ability from Garnacho. If he wasn’t an academy kid plenty would happily be looking to replace him
I like Garnacho and Hojlund (bit concerned about the latter sometimes) but Martial was on a different level I feel. His first season under LvG was one of the few good things about that season. I think Garnacho seems to demonstrate more of a will to make it though. Phil Jones recently said Martial was constantly late for everything and was never bothered about being fined.
He won't turn out to be as shit as Martial.
He’d do well to have a single season as good as the one Martial had as a freshly arrived teenager.
I agree and have said many times that Garnachos attitude and drive are probably his biggest attributes/strengths as a player. It’s why I think no matter what he’ll be a solid player somewhere. I’m more so pushing back on what seems like the popular media narrative that he’s a future star that’s untouchable and needs to be be nursed to reach this huge potential some think he has. Especially when it pertains to our planning for future seasons
Garnacho needs to punch through the level he’s been at over the last 12 months.
In 15/16 Martial had the following stats:
Games: 49 (4,128 min)
Goals: 17 (243 min/G)
Assists: 8
G/A: 25 (165 min/G+A)
Garnacho so far this season:
Games: 22 (1,384 min)
Goals: 8 (173 min/G)
Assists: 4
G/A: 12 (115 min/G+A)
So far it doesn’t look like Garnacho is having it worse…
Like I said, he'd do well to have that level of season.
(not withstanding that the actual performances between the two aren't close if you actually watched both)
The biggest flaw to Garnacho's game is that he just will not play a forward or inside ball to a forward to his feet. Every single time he will look for the back pass or the safe sideways pass to recirculate play. He's allergic to a central ball into Hojlund, or into a channel, or between the lines. It's almost anathema for a player playing in a no.10 role to have no desire to play a forward progressive pass along the floor.
Case in point
His progressive carries is excellent, as expected, but, look at his progressive passes!!!!!!!! He's in the 5 percentile of players playing in his position!!! It's atrocious and is indicative of exactly why Hojlund doesn't get chances and why we struggle to create chances.
I repeat. He is in the 5 percentile for progressive passes per 90 minutes vs other AM's and wingers
1.95 progressive passes per game!
His progressive carries is excellent, as expected, but, look at his progressive passes!!!!!!!! He's in the 5 percentile of players playing in his position!!! It's atrocious and is indicative of exactly why Hojlund doesn't get chances and why we struggle to create chances.
I repeat. He is in the 5 percentile for progressive passes per 90 minutes vs other AM's and wingers
1.95 progressive passes per game!
I’ve been following United for c.30 years already - so I’ve seen both.
That’s absolutely unacceptable. But can it be amended without proper training? As Amorim says, we now have games every 3 days more or less, and there are only recovery training sessions for the most part
I really think he should be converted into a LWB to be played against weaker opponents. He runs for days, he's better receiving the ball in space, he's not an especially creative passer or good on the turn. However he's fast, he's dangerous arriving late in an attack, and he's effective when his starting position is wide. He has an excellent cross in him. His attitude to defending is excellent, and he knows how to tackle. Doesn't know his defensive positioning but has never really needed to before, and at 20 he can certainly learn.
In a team containing Bruno, Amad, Mount, Zirkzee, Mainoo and Eriksen there's no sense whatsoever playing him as one of the #10s. But I'm also sick of seeing Dalot struggling out of position at LWB after his year and a half of consistency under ETH on the right, where he should now be a strong back-up to Mazraoui. Garnacho would give teams so much more to think about as LWB.
In a team containing Bruno, Amad, Mount, Zirkzee, Mainoo and Eriksen there's no sense whatsoever playing him as one of the #10s. But I'm also sick of seeing Dalot struggling out of position at LWB after his year and a half of consistency under ETH on the right, where he should now be a strong back-up to Mazraoui. Garnacho would give teams so much more to think about as LWB.
Quite easily when you bench him more often so you get more time on the training pitch. Think his lack of passing must be rooted out asap.
Remember when he used to even attempt these kind of passes at the beginning?
The more you watch the videos from his early days the more it feels like he's gotten worse. He's physically stronger and runs more than ever, but the rest just looks to have regressed a bit. Strange.
Agree with this, I think his best chance to stay and make an impact here is to covert to one of the wingback positions. He's simply not techincal enough to be an attacker for a top team (at least not as a starter), but he's got good legs/pace and great positional instincts the the final third to be able to poach goals as an auxilliary attacker.
Case in point
His progressive carries is excellent, as expected, but, look at his progressive passes!!!!!!!! He's in the 5 percentile of players playing in his position!!! It's atrocious and is indicative of exactly why Hojlund doesn't get chances and why we struggle to create chances.
I repeat. He is in the 5 percentile for progressive passes per 90 minutes vs other AM's and wingers
1.95 progressive passes per game!
I'd also argue that I'd rather see my wingers have very high progressive passes and less progressive carries unless their take on numbers are really good. His are below average, so those numbers sort of just say he dribbles and shoots a feckton but isn't an elite goal scorer, and doesn't create much else. Scarily looks like Antony's metrics from 22/23 if I'm honest.
Thing is, I think players who don't naturally have an eye for a pass or great technique struggle to ever improve as passers. They sort of are who they are. McTominay is a good example of this: If he could have developed as a passer he could have completely transformed his overall value as a player, but even from the time he first came into the team until we sold him he was terrified of passing it forward consistently and didn't really want much of the ball either.
It’s an unfair comparison to be honest. Martial’s natural talent was absurd. I don’t see why we need to replace Garnacho - he’s a good young player and solid backup / rotational player. Get rid of Rashford who is paid a fortune, average and doesn’t run enough.
Yup ive been bleating on about his passing for ages. People say he doesn’t want to pass but he’s not really got a pass on him so he always try to use his other tools with passing being a last resort unless it’s a very simple one.
Agreed, definitely hang on to him as a rotational player for now with the added bonus that (imo) he has the potential to kick on to be a top class first team player, with a bit of luck, a lot of effort and steady development.
But passing can be improved with training, at least in theory…
Right, and those things can improve insofar as a defined system automates those things better, however, choosing to be brave enough to look for an incisive pass is an internal trait. You can train someone within the system to know where to find them, but the player has to be disposed in his own mind to want to make them.
That being said, at this point, I could easily bring up many sample games, screenshot Garnacho on the ball, show you the clear and obvious inside or forward pass, and show you how he settled for a back pass 90% of the time. There is, unfortunately, not a lot you can do about that. He has to want to do things he's not comfortable doing, and until he attempts them in the first instance, he'll never get better at them.
Yep, I’d agree with this, at least give it a go, if Garnacho doesn’t want to do the defensive side of the game then he’d have to fight for a No 10 role but he’d be behind, Diallo & Bruno if all attacking players are ever fit.
I personally don't think it's possible at this point for someone to both improve their eye for a pass as well as technique in making passes. You can do one or the other, but trying to improve both drastically at the same time is extremely hard, especially for a winger who's first instinct is to just constantly do a CR7 impression.
In a vaccum I agree, I wouldn't replace Garnacho in the squad. I'm speaking from a POV of the squad having clear holes that have to be upgraded significantly on and a somewhat tight budget to do so. Rashford won't fetch much on the market at this point, we've let his stock run into the ground and he's paid a fortune which severely limits our options. But if a team fell in love with Garnacho and wanted to pay us 60-70m I think we'd be stupid to say no.
But yes ultimately his role should be as a supersub and rotational option (which suits his current strengths the most anyways).
Maybe because we had a clueless Dutch manager who stagnated his progress. Let's wait to see how he develops his game under somebody who knows what he's doing. Hopefully.
Everyone wondering if he is good enough but that's not even the main question. The question is - Can he fit in Amorims system? He's not a LWB or RWB that's for sure. Can he play as a 10? Sure but only in certain games. He will do a job but he will never be integral in this system I feel. And is even fair to him? It will just stagnate him. He needs a system where he is a winger and allowed to basically score goals. He could easily be a 15/20 goal a season winger and be a key player in the right system. But we made our bed and decided we arnt playing with wingers. So for me he should be sold even if that hurts to allow us to get players that it the system. For instance Id take 70 mill and use it to buy Wirtz for 90 if that was at all possible. But even if its unrealistic the theory is sound.
38 G/A contribution as 20 year old these days is not good enough apparently.
Unless young wingers are not showboating and doing fancy dribbling, their talent start getting questioned. Some of the attacks he is getting on social media is bizarre considering he is our top scorer and is second in G/A at 12 to Bruno’s 13. Its just crazy how fickle fans are these days with young players
Unless young wingers are not showboating and doing fancy dribbling, their talent start getting questioned. Some of the attacks he is getting on social media is bizarre considering he is our top scorer and is second in G/A at 12 to Bruno’s 13. Its just crazy how fickle fans are these days with young players
It’s very likely he will increase his G/A number today