The Remake Draft

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I see 5:40.

Time London or Time Paris (CEST) ?
 
01) Tuppet (Inter 1964, 1-3-4-2) - 1. Ronaldo 2. Pirlo 3. Puyol
02) paulscholes18/Marty1968 (Germany 1972, 4-3-3) - 1. Nesta 2 Vidal 3 RVN
03) crappycraperson (Milan 1989, 4-4-2) - 1. Ronaldinho 2. Thiago Silva 3. Beckham
04) Downcast (Juve 1983, Lop-sided 4-4-2) - 1. Kaká 2. Shevchenko 3. Zambrotta
05) harms (Ajax 1995, 3-3-1-3) - 1. T. Müller 2. J. Martínez 3. Abidal
06) DavidG (River 1941, 3-2-5) - 1. T. Henry 2. Bale 3. Ivan Cordoba
07) Šjor Bepo (GER 1990, 3-5-2) - 1. Suarez 2. Ribery 3. Boateng
08) Gio (Hungary 1953, 3-2-1-4) - 1. Totti 2. Raul 3. Robben
09) Enigma_87 (ITA 1934, 2-3-2-3) - 1. Seedorf 2. Busquets 3. Eto'o
10) P-Nut0712/mazhar13 (BRA 1982, 4-2-2-2) - 1. Neymar 2. Pogba 3. van Bronckhorst
11) Raees/anant (Austria 1932, 2-3-5) - 1. Schweinsteiger 2. Alaba 3. Griezmann
12) NoPace (Arsenal 1931, 3-2-2-3) - 1. Godin 2. Mascherano 3. Fabregas
13) Brwned (ENG 1966, 4-1-3-2) - 1. Rio Ferdinand 2. Gerrard 3. Cole
14) Kazi (BRA 1958, 4-2-4) - 1. Modrić 2. Vidic 3. David Villa
15) EAP (Barca 1992, 3-4-3) - 1. Vieira 2. Xabi Alonso 3. Pedro
16) MJJ/VivaJanuzaj (Dynamo 1975, 4-1-3-2) - 1.Lahm 2. Iniesta
 
01) Tuppet (Inter 1964, 1-3-4-2) - 1. Ronaldo 2. Pirlo 3. Puyol
02) paulscholes18/Marty1968 (Germany 1972, 4-3-3) - 1. Nesta 2 Vidal 3 RVN
03) crappycraperson (Milan 1989, 4-4-2) - 1. Ronaldinho 2. Thiago Silva 3. Beckham
04) Downcast (Juve 1983, Lop-sided 4-4-2) - 1. Kaká 2. Shevchenko 3. Zambrotta
05) harms (Ajax 1995, 3-3-1-3) - 1. T. Müller 2. J. Martínez 3. Abidal
06) DavidG (River 1941, 3-2-5) - 1. T. Henry 2. Bale 3. Ivan Cordoba
07) Šjor Bepo (GER 1990, 3-5-2) - 1. Suarez 2. Ribery 3. Boateng
08) Gio (Hungary 1953, 3-2-1-4) - 1. Totti 2. Raul 3. Robben
09) Enigma_87 (ITA 1934, 2-3-2-3) - 1. Seedorf 2. Busquets 3. Eto'o
10) P-Nut0712/mazhar13 (BRA 1982, 4-2-2-2) - 1. Neymar 2. Pogba 3. van Bronckhorst
11) Raees/anant (Austria 1932, 2-3-5) - 1. Schweinsteiger 2. Alaba 3. Griezmann
12) NoPace (Arsenal 1931, 3-2-2-3) - 1. Godin 2. Mascherano 3. Fabregas
13) Brwned (ENG 1966, 4-1-3-2) - 1. Rio Ferdinand 2. Gerrard 3. Cole
14) Kazi (BRA 1958, 4-2-4) - 1. Modrić 2. Vidic 3. David Villa
15) EAP (Barca 1992, 3-4-3) - 1. Vieira 2. Xabi Alonso 3. Pedro
16) MJJ/VivaJanuzaj (Dynamo 1975, 4-1-3-2) - 1.Lahm 2. Iniesta 3. Reus 4. Koke

Up to you Sir @Edgar Allan Pillow
 
01) Tuppet (Inter 1964, 1-3-4-2) - 1. Ronaldo 2. Pirlo 3. Puyol
02) paulscholes18/Marty1968 (Germany 1972, 4-3-3) - 1. Nesta 2 Vidal 3 RVN
03) crappycraperson (Milan 1989, 4-4-2) - 1. Ronaldinho 2. Thiago Silva 3. Beckham
04) Downcast (Juve 1983, Lop-sided 4-4-2) - 1. Kaká 2. Shevchenko 3. Zambrotta
05) harms (Ajax 1995, 3-3-1-3) - 1. T. Müller 2. J. Martínez 3. Abidal
06) DavidG (River 1941, 3-2-5) - 1. T. Henry 2. Bale 3. Ivan Cordoba
07) Šjor Bepo (GER 1990, 3-5-2) - 1. Suarez 2. Ribery 3. Boateng
08) Gio (Hungary 1953, 3-2-1-4) - 1. Totti 2. Raul 3. Robben
09) Enigma_87 (ITA 1934, 2-3-2-3) - 1. Seedorf 2. Busquets 3. Eto'o
10) P-Nut0712/mazhar13 (BRA 1982, 4-2-2-2) - 1. Neymar 2. Pogba 3. van Bronckhorst
11) Raees/anant (Austria 1932, 2-3-5) - 1. Schweinsteiger 2. Alaba 3. Griezmann
12) NoPace (Arsenal 1931, 3-2-2-3) - 1. Godin 2. Mascherano 3. Fabregas
13) Brwned (ENG 1966, 4-1-3-2) - 1. Rio Ferdinand 2. Gerrard 3. Cole
14) Kazi (BRA 1958, 4-2-4) - 1. Modrić 2. Vidic 3. David Villa
15) EAP (Barca 1992, 3-4-3) - 1. Vieira 2. Xabi Alonso 3. Pedro 4. Pique
16) MJJ/VivaJanuzaj (Dynamo 1975, 4-1-3-2) - 1.Lahm 2. Iniesta 3. Reus 4. Koke

@Kazi
 
Raees said:
Quick question to the draft committee..

http://www.pesmitidelcalcio.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=2149

That is a slightly different lineup to the team listed in the OP (World cup semi team.. which misses out Nausch - one of the most legendary Austrians from that era but missed out on World Cup - due to injury??)
Click to expand...

Can't open that link for some reason - is that lineup from a particular match, or is it just a general take on a Wunderteam lineup?

EDITED (for clarity).
 
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01) Tuppet (Inter 1964, 1-3-4-2) - 1. Ronaldo 2. Pirlo 3. Puyol
02) paulscholes18/Marty1968 (Germany 1972, 4-3-3) - 1. Nesta 2 Vidal 3 RVN
03) crappycraperson (Milan 1989, 4-4-2) - 1. Ronaldinho 2. Thiago Silva 3. Beckham
04) Downcast (Juve 1983, Lop-sided 4-4-2) - 1. Kaká 2. Shevchenko 3. Zambrotta
05) harms (Ajax 1995, 3-3-1-3) - 1. T. Müller 2. J. Martínez 3. Abidal
06) DavidG (River 1941, 3-2-5) - 1. T. Henry 2. Bale 3. Ivan Cordoba
07) Šjor Bepo (GER 1990, 3-5-2) - 1. Suarez 2. Ribery 3. Boateng
08) Gio (Hungary 1953, 3-2-1-4) - 1. Totti 2. Raul 3. Robben
09) Enigma_87 (ITA 1934, 2-3-2-3) - 1. Seedorf 2. Busquets 3. Eto'o
10) P-Nut0712/mazhar13 (BRA 1982, 4-2-2-2) - 1. Neymar 2. Pogba 3. van Bronckhorst
11) Raees/anant (Austria 1932, 2-3-5) - 1. Schweinsteiger 2. Alaba 3. Griezmann
12) NoPace (Arsenal 1931, 3-2-2-3) - 1. Godin 2. Mascherano 3. Fabregas
13) Brwned (ENG 1966, 4-1-3-2) - 1. Rio Ferdinand 2. Gerrard 3. Cole
14) Kazi (BRA 1958, 4-2-4) - 1. Modrić 2. Vidic 3. David Villa 4. Carrick
15) EAP (Barca 1992, 3-4-3) - 1. Vieira 2. Xabi Alonso 3. Pedro 4. Pique
16) MJJ/VivaJanuzaj (Dynamo 1975, 4-1-3-2) - 1.Lahm 2. Iniesta 3. Reus 4. Koke
 
Raees said:
Quick question to the draft committee..

http://www.pesmitidelcalcio.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=2149

That is a slightly different lineup to the team listed in the OP (World cup semi team.. which misses out Nausch - one of the most legendary Austrians from that era but missed out on World Cup - due to injury??)
Click to expand...

It is in accordance with the official team listed by Fifa for the semi-final encounter

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/matches/round=3492/match=1107/index.html#nosticky

EDIT: As Chester stated, it's hard to accommodate all the names - the 4 foreigners in the Dream Team for eg - and the committee decides upon one of the options available
 
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@Raees

The problem here is that if you go for a different line-up, you easily end up with the same conundrum: Somebody misses out.

The 1932 CEIC match against Italy, for instance, where Austria won 2-1, is one possibility - but while that XI featured Nausch it did not feature, among others, Bican.

The standard gone for here is that the manager gets a blueprint which is an actual, historical XI from a particular match - not a generic XI.

Your blueprint is listed as Austria 1932, which is just a typo - the actual team is the 1934 WC semi-final XI.
 
the fact that one player in particular hasnt been picked by SOMEONE is astounding. He has absolutely no place in my team but i can see at least 9 teams that he should have been a first choice for
 
I might be a while folks. Haven't given this one much prior thought and I really haven't a clue which way to go, so I'm gonna have to dig around.

One thing I've still not entirely got my head around is the whole quality element. Gordon Banks' quality - not necessarily his style of play - was absolutely fundamental to the success of this England team. So do I get the best available (with reasonably similar traits) to replicate his star status in the squad or do I get the most similar player?
 
http://eu-football.info/_match.php?id=5789
http://www.11v11.com/matches/austria-v-bulgaria-25-april-1934-224370/


http://www.11v11.com/matches/austria-v-hungary-15-april-1934-224368/

http://www.11v11.com/matches/netherlands-v-austria-10-december-1933-224337/

http://www.11v11.com/teams/austria/tab/matches/season/1934/


Number of games to choose from there.. but it proves Nausch was a starter in many games pre world cup alongside Bican, Sinderlar and Smistik. Are we allowed to use international friendlies (of which there are many from that era) as a reference point?
 
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With keepers it's different, they are, once again, pretty much irrelevant as they are all very similar style-wise (apart from 2 notable exceptions, and arguably a couple of others). So, like you would pick someone with an exceptional passing skills as a Platini's replacement, you should pick someone who resembles Banks in his strongest qualities, which are similar for most of the keepers - reaction, control of the box and positioning. In this particular case the matching quality of the player actually is synonymous to the similarity.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
@Raees

The problem here is that if you go for a different line-up, you easily end up with the same conundrum: Somebody misses out.

The 1932 CEIC match against Italy, for instance, where Austria won 2-1, is one possibility - but while that XI featured Nausch it did not feature, among others, Bican.

The standard gone for here is that the manager gets a blueprint which is an actual, historical XI from a particular match - not a generic XI.

Your blueprint is listed as Austria 1932, which is just a typo - the actual team is the 1934 WC semi-final XI.
Click to expand...

I get that but it seems harsh that if we are looking to replicate a legendary team of the past and one of the players was absolutely key to the making of that side but missed out through injury during one tournament, we are unable to cite him as a reference point.

Totally get the fact it has to be from an official match to prove they played alongside each other, hopefully my links above prove they played alongside each other regularly and were very successful in doing so.
 
Raees said:
but it proves Nausch was a starter in every game pre world cup alongside Bican, Sinderlar and Smistik
Click to expand...

Both Bican and Sindelar missed several (big) matches during the glory years of the Wunderteam.

Anyway, Armfield would have played in '66 if he hadn't gotten himself injured just before the tournament - and he was clearly a better/more interesting player than his replacement.

Similar cases may be found all over the spectrum here - so there it is.
 
A question for the Draft committee.

I have watched the entire following games

- Final of the Champions Cup 1983: Hamburg-Juventus 1-0:


- Derby Torino-Juventus



Regarding the Juventus, the positioning of Bettega is particularly misleading on this map.

4902_60_news_hub_multi_630x0.jpg


My recommendation for the voters is to have this following map

ByaDH66.jpg


And I am not the only one to understand the Zona Mista like this as you can see below:

hZaKesT.png


http://www.pesmitidelcalcio.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4698
 
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Brwned said:
I might be a while folks. Haven't given this one much prior thought and I really haven't a clue which way to go, so I'm gonna have to dig around.

One thing I've still not entirely got my head around is the whole quality element. Gordon Banks' quality - not necessarily his style of play - was absolutely fundamental to the success of this England team. So do I get the best available (with reasonably similar traits) to replicate his star status in the squad or do I get the most similar player?
Click to expand...

It comes down to how you see him as a cog in the machinery, I suppose: If you think that having an absolutely first rate, top-of-the-line keeper is vital in terms of re-creating that machinery, then - well - you go for that.

Best available (with reasonably similar traits) sounds pretty good to me - but that's just my personal opinion.
 
@Downcast Boniek and Bettega often changed places, in domestic games Boniek played №7 more often and in European games he was given a free role which led to the burst in his goalscoring in Europe (Bello di notte etc.). There were basically forwards (Bettega and Rossi), two attacking midfielders (Boniek and Platini) and two defensive ones (Bonini and Tardelli(

№7 in Zona Mista is traditionally a player who covers the whole right flank along with №8 (look at Conti in 1982, for example, in the similar system), so the original blueprint is more accurate in terms of the original philosophy.

Hamburg game was actually a game which was lost because of the flaws in the philosophy - Gentile followed Bastrup to the left (masterstoke by Happel), Tardelli had to move to the right full-time etc., so it's not an ideal example
 
Yes, the '83 match is in some ways problematic. But let's not over-complicate this: You're not supposed to assemble a team capable of reproducing the actual performance of Juventus in that particular match (that would be a bit bizarre).

It was chosen as a blueprint because Bettega features in the line-up, and he was considered a more interesting player than his successors in the role. The role, as such, is as harms describes it above - a hybrid role of sorts which involves covering plenty of ground.
 
WsVf1UV.png
WlwR0NE.png
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Both Bican and Sindelar missed several (big) matches during the glory years of the Wunderteam.

Anyway, Armfield would have played in '66 if he hadn't gotten himself injured just before the tournament - and he was clearly a better/more interesting player than his replacement.

Similar cases may be found all over the spectrum here - so there it is.
Click to expand...

Noted.
 
Ok, I'm going to firm up my defence some more...

JackieCharlton_228x250.jpg
article-1080102-02F4148600000578-267_306x454.jpg


01) Tuppet (Inter 1964, 1-3-4-2) - 1. Ronaldo 2. Pirlo 3. Puyol
02) paulscholes18/Marty1968 (Germany 1972, 4-3-3) - 1. Nesta 2 Vidal 3 RVN
03) crappycraperson (Milan 1989, 4-4-2) - 1. Ronaldinho 2. Thiago Silva 3. Beckham
04) Downcast (Juve 1983, Lop-sided 4-4-2) - 1. Kaká 2. Shevchenko 3. Zambrotta
05) harms (Ajax 1995, 3-3-1-3) - 1. T. Müller 2. J. Martínez 3. Abidal
06) DavidG (River 1941, 3-2-5) - 1. T. Henry 2. Bale 3. Ivan Cordoba
07) Šjor Bepo (GER 1990, 3-5-2) - 1. Suarez 2. Ribery 3. Boateng
08) Gio (Hungary 1953, 3-2-1-4) - 1. Totti 2. Raul 3. Robben
09) Enigma_87 (ITA 1934, 2-3-2-3) - 1. Seedorf 2. Busquets 3. Eto'o
10) P-Nut0712/mazhar13 (BRA 1982, 4-2-2-2) - 1. Neymar 2. Pogba 3. van Bronckhorst
11) Raees/anant (Austria 1932, 2-3-5) - 1. Schweinsteiger 2. Alaba 3. Griezmann
12) NoPace (Arsenal 1931, 3-2-2-3) - 1. Godin 2. Mascherano 3. Fabregas
13) Brwned (ENG 1966, 4-1-3-2) - 1. Rio Ferdinand 2. Gerrard 3. Cole 4. Terry
14) Kazi (BRA 1958, 4-2-4) - 1. Modrić 2. Vidic 3. David Villa 4. Carrick
15) EAP (Barca 1992, 3-4-3) - 1. Vieira 2. Xabi Alonso 3. Pedro 4. Pique
16) MJJ/VivaJanuzaj (Dynamo 1975, 4-1-3-2) - 1.Lahm 2. Iniesta 3. Reus 4. Koke

@NoPace
 
Raees said:
Noted.
Click to expand...

The way I see it you can go about it in two basic ways:

a) Use a generic XI. A sort of "best of" line-up featuring the most prominent players associated with the team and the period.

or

b) Use a particular, historic XI from a particular match (preferably a match of some magnitude).

It was considered, for several reasons, that b) would be the best/most convenient approach - not least because the a) approach will almost inevitably lead to debates over the inclusion/exclusion of individual players.
 
1460268_831882056852012_1026374221_n.jpg


01) Tuppet (Inter 1964, 1-3-4-2) - 1. Ronaldo 2. Pirlo 3. Puyol
02) paulscholes18/Marty1968 (Germany 1972, 4-3-3) - 1. Nesta 2 Vidal 3 RVN
03) crappycraperson (Milan 1989, 4-4-2) - 1. Ronaldinho 2. Thiago Silva 3. Beckham
04) Downcast (Juve 1983, Lop-sided 4-4-2) - 1. Kaká 2. Shevchenko 3. Zambrotta
05) harms (Ajax 1995, 3-3-1-3) - 1. T. Müller 2. J. Martínez 3. Abidal
06) DavidG (River 1941, 3-2-5) - 1. T. Henry 2. Bale 3. Ivan Cordoba
07) Šjor Bepo (GER 1990, 3-5-2) - 1. Suarez 2. Ribery 3. Boateng
08) Gio (Hungary 1953, 3-2-1-4) - 1. Totti 2. Raul 3. Robben
09) Enigma_87 (ITA 1934, 2-3-2-3) - 1. Seedorf 2. Busquets 3. Eto'o
10) P-Nut0712/mazhar13 (BRA 1982, 4-2-2-2) - 1. Neymar 2. Pogba 3. van Bronckhorst
11) Raees/anant (Austria 1932, 2-3-5) - 1. Schweinsteiger 2. Alaba 3. Griezmann
12) NoPace (Arsenal 1931, 3-2-2-3) - 1. Godin 2. Mascherano 3. Fabregas 4. Alexis Sanchez
13) Brwned (ENG 1966, 4-1-3-2) - 1. Rio Ferdinand 2. Gerrard 3. Cole 4. Terry
14) Kazi (BRA 1958, 4-2-4) - 1. Modrić 2. Vidic 3. David Villa 4. Carrick
15) EAP (Barca 1992, 3-4-3) - 1. Vieira 2. Xabi Alonso 3. Pedro 4. Pique
16) MJJ/VivaJanuzaj (Dynamo 1975, 4-1-3-2) - 1.Lahm 2. Iniesta 3. Reus 4. Koke


@Raees
@anant
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I agree with the gist of this, certainly.

The primary task is to re-create the team: The overall balance and the nuances, as much as possible.

However, in order to achieve that it's likely that you will have to pick individual players who do resemble their classic counterparts to a significant degree. In many cases key roles in the original XI were played by someone who had a certain combination of (fairly tangible) qualities that were necessary for him (without them he couldn't have functioned as he did within the system). And in such cases the natural starting point will be a player who shares those (or several of those) fairly tangible qualities.

But, again, I agree: The task isn't to hunt for players who are, let's say, superficially similar - what I personally will look at is how well the XI as a whole functions as a remake.
Click to expand...

Chesterlestreet said:
It comes down to how you see him as a cog in the machinery, I suppose: If you think that having an absolutely first rate, top-of-the-line keeper is vital in terms of re-creating that machinery, then - well - you go for that.

Best available (with reasonably similar traits) sounds pretty good to me - but that's just my personal opinion.
Click to expand...

Cool, I think we're on the same page.
 
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