Needs movement around him. We seem to just punt it to him and hope for the best.
10
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 46
- Goals
- 28
- Assists
- 9
- Yellow cards
- 8
- Status
I think that's why Ibra should generally play behind Rashford. Ibra is very good at shielding the ball and passing it forward while also shooting from distance. Rashford is very good at making runs into the box and attacking players with speed. Hence I believe this will be the most efficient solution.
Ibrahimovic scored against City and missed a great chance, but his goal should make it unable to class his performance against them as 'awful'.
Why was he 'awful' against Watford? He put in the cross from which Rashford scored.
He forced Gomis to make a great save with his header on target....again he missed a good chance, but he finds himself in the position, has to get some credit for it. Sure, you can expect even more from a player of Ibrahimovic's stature, but he's not that bad, imo.
Good pointing out Mourinho's cluelessness, there's no plan recognisable for me too. But it's been just 5 games, maybe we'll come good, very good hopefully.
The little burst for his goal apart, he was awful yet again. We can't have two players in Rooney and Zlatan who both seem to have become terrible passers and have zero pace. One has to make way and the other has to massively improve.
His passing and linkup play has been terrble for us though. He seems incapable of making simple passes.
Thought he was OK today, not too bad.
Lots of talk though about what we need to change to benefit Ibra. Maybe he needs to change a little also. A No.9 has to run in behind more often. It's no use playing in front of the opposition defence all the time.
On a side note(this isn't a criticism of Ibra, more the posters) we were told by lots of posters that Ibra raised those around him, that he wouldn't accept poor performances from his team mates. Such was his power. Any thoughts about that right now?
Lots of talk though about what we need to change to benefit Ibra. Maybe he needs to change a little also. A No.9 has to run in behind more often. It's no use playing in front of the opposition defence all the time.
On a side note(this isn't a criticism of Ibra, more the posters) we were told by lots of posters that Ibra raised those around him, that he wouldn't accept poor performances from his team mates. Such was his power. Any thoughts about that right now?
Or two need to make place if need be.
We could easily put in Rashford and Mkhitaryan to replace them.
My opinion about him is weird. Do we need him atm? Yes we do. But, just like with the likes of carricks, we should not be relying on him beyond this season.
He is scoring goals and making some as a striker so we can't fault him at all in that sense.
But, the team playing like pretty shit up front and nothing like a jose coached team has anything to do with him (+rooney playing at the same time)? I would wonder. We do know that we don't seem to be able to play a fast counter attack with him like jose usually does with his other teams. So it is like finding players and tactic to suit again.
So far, we do it by hoofing the ball to him.
He is scoring goals and making some as a striker so we can't fault him at all in that sense.
But, the team playing like pretty shit up front and nothing like a jose coached team has anything to do with him (+rooney playing at the same time)? I would wonder. We do know that we don't seem to be able to play a fast counter attack with him like jose usually does with his other teams. So it is like finding players and tactic to suit again.
So far, we do it by hoofing the ball to him.
I say this every week, that he and Rooney are too slow to play together. I'd keep Zlatan as he is the more important to the team at the moment.
I can't imagine Jose will bench Rooney and Zlatan but yes it could be nice to try something new.
Have you even been watching any of our games this season? Overall he has been our best attacking player, by quite some margin I may add, and this is Zlatan not playing on his true level and yet he still scores goals and creates chances.
"terrible passes".
It's kinda the same thing for Pogba (although he hasn't been doing that well YET I may say), we have fundamental problems, and we have 11 players that has to perform.
If they start doing that, our world class players like Pogba and Zlatan will be even better.
Right I'm coming out.
This was a terrible signing, Z & Rooney are a disaster as a pair. Not now convinced if you take Wazza out it doesn't look the same cos of this guy. The pace & workrate & truly phenomenal aren't they,.
He did next to nothing yesterday, one header, one bumbling half assist people seem to be over excited about. If Zlatan is not scoring, then he brings little else to the table.
This was a terrible signing, Z & Rooney are a disaster as a pair. Not now convinced if you take Wazza out it doesn't look the same cos of this guy. The pace & workrate & truly phenomenal aren't they,
.He did next to nothing yesterday, one header, one bumbling half assist people seem to be over excited about. If Zlatan is not scoring, then he brings little else to the table.
I might be wrong if you get Wazza out of the team but Zlatan needs these young quick guys getting in & around him. Don't suppose the super stodgy build up helps anyone up the front either, btw. A snail carrying cement could transition from defence into attack quicker than the ponderous Fellaini. The guys out wide need the ball getting to them faster & this would help Super Z too, I would imagine.
My Newcastle mate text me during the game saying the only players that looked even half decent were Shaw and Ibrahimovic and I completely agree with him. Ibrahimovic still looks a class above anyone in the attack but surely people must realise that he is completely dependent on service. He's not going to play well unless the rest of the team click behind him which makes him the least of our worries. We need to get Rooney out if the team ASAP and the other attackers going and Ibrahimovic will bang in 20 goals easy.
Not exactly his fault...
I think his hold up play under pressure hasn't been as good as I expected, but he's playing against some big physical defenders which in France maybe he's not used too.
Once he comes deeper and gets involved though his touch and passing is accurate, he always looks for the through ball too which I like. We created Rashfords goal for that exact reason.
He just needs somebody to help take the attention off him. Zlatan is great but nobody can do it by themselves. I don't want to keep bashing Rooney as it's boring but he rarely runs passed Zlatan or is close enough to play off eachother, distract defenders etc.
Ibrahimovic scored against City and missed a great chance, but his goal should make it unable to class his performance against them as 'awful'.
Why was he 'awful' against Watford? He put in the cross from which Rashford scored.
He forced Gomis to make a great save with his header on target....again he missed a good chance, but he finds himself in the position, has to get some credit for it. Sure, you can expect even more from a player of Ibrahimovic's stature, but he's not that bad, imo.
Good pointing out Mourinho's cluelessness, there's no plan recognisable for me too. But it's been just 5 games, maybe we'll come good, very good hopefully.
It is true he has 1-2 good plays a game, but that doesn't make it a good performance, just as 1-2 bad plays don't make it a bad performance.
In my opinion he slowed down the game, miss passed, heavy touches etc. So yes, had a fantastic goal against City and a few more chances, but all in all I found him awful, as he was forcing the game and trying to score from every angle. Yesterday he was completely anonymous, except for the pass to Rashford and the header.
Right I'm coming out.
This was a terrible signing, Z & Rooney are a disaster as a pair. Not now convinced if you take Wazza out it doesn't look the same cos of this guy. The pace & workrate & truly phenomenal aren't they,
He did next to nothing yesterday, one header, one bumbling half assist people seem to be over excited about. If Zlatan is not scoring, then he brings little else to the table.
What you refer to as a bumbling half assist was the moment of genius we needed to get back into it. Big players, like Zlatan, produce those moments. Nobody else looked like being able to conjure up anything like that.
It cannot be overstated how much we need to build our attack around Ibra. We are giving him half chances at the moment. If we could get some quality chances into him he'd bury them.
Zlatan is not the problem with this team. Given what he gets to work with he is doing what he can.. Drop Rooney.. problem solved..
Way to early. But the guy is absolutely glacial and you have to adapt your game if you are to get away with being glacial in the PL. That is why when people keep saying he needs to drop and swan around in attacking midfield to get the best out of him I am not sure what to make of it. He's been doing that a fair bit and getting in the way of everyone. He is brutally slow.Right I'm coming out.
This was a terrible signing, Z & Rooney are a disaster as a pair. Not now convinced if you take Wazza out it doesn't look the same cos of this guy. The pace & workrate & truly phenomenal aren't they,
He did next to nothing yesterday, one header, one bumbling half assist people seem to be over excited about. If Zlatan is not scoring, then he brings little else to the table.
But like I said, it is to early to write him off. He is someone who creates moments of magic but we have to start using him properly. Push everyone up tight onto him and let him interplay, stop him from coming deep. In my opinion he/anyone should only really be coming deep to get on the ball if we're not controlling the game and they're desperate for a touch. Not as an actual individual player game plan. He needs to either stay up front and work as a hold up striker on the last man and leave space in front of their back four for players to operate.
Rooney and Zlatan can work, but the flanks need to move the ball a lot better. The midfield needs to transition faster and needs much more movement. They basically have to make him stay up front by recycling the ball quickly and that is a very very hard thing to do in England. Even with the best and fittest players.
That is my take on it anyway. His body language has started to worry me a little as well. In the first game when he absolutely brickied that Bournemouth player from 8 yards away I thought "alright, we got a player here" since in the City/Watford games he's swanned around and fought for 1 ball out of 5 like he couldn't give a rats. It is early days, but it is slightly worrying. He needs to balance when to be calm, level headed and the father figure and when to be the all out warrior. It feels like he went redline in the first four games and is now struggling a little bit or something. (Speculating, like the conditioning of the EPL is catching up to him) I fully expected him to bury that chance at the back post on his left but you watch the slow mo and he reacted so bloody late, it ended up just being a token flick at the ball.
He's the same when playing for Sweden. He has a tendency of blaming other players as well. I've noticed that Pogba is a target he hits down on a lot. It became apparent when Pogba took that awful shot when Ibra had a 25% situation.
When he's frustrated he can sometimes do things on his own. I believe it's a mental thing for Ibrahimovic, he cannot lift a team he don't believe in. To me he's beaten the minute he sees the line-up. If he's up against superior opposition he shrinks a bit. If his fellow team mates are of a lower standard he will spend more time being irritated over that than actually playing football.
He's a good player and already scored a lot of goals. On a better day he'd get that header in.
He's a big man and I really thought he'd use his strength better. I never expected any pace from him but his passing and linkup play has disappointed me. In every game he's been struggling to make some simples passes or linkup with those around him. As long as he's scoring I won't have too many complaints though but he and Rooney together slows us down too much. He also needs his shooting boots on more. He's been missing easy chances by his high standards.
Right I'm coming out.
This was a terrible signing, Z & Rooney are a disaster as a pair. Not now convinced if you take Wazza out it doesn't look the same cos of this guy. The pace & workrate & truly phenomenal aren't they,
He did next to nothing yesterday, one header, one bumbling half assist people seem to be over excited about. If Zlatan is not scoring, then he brings little else to the table.
Fortunately for you he is likely to score at least 20 goals this season then. Goals win games.
Same shit as with RVP, he and Rooney can't play together, I'm just waiting for the stats centres to bring up how many passes between them they have played in respective matches.
All this whinging about Rooney and everything else, but the basic fact is we wouldn't have lost the last two league games if Zlatan didn't miss open goals.
We also can't build attacks at the moment beause every time we play the ball into his feet him either loses it or tries to do something fecking stupid.
He also got passed through on goal twice by Watford players and one time didn't even get a shot away and the other was too fecking slow to even get to the ball.
There's a few of our players who people will make excuses for the when the basic fact is that the only thing making them useless is their own uselessness.
For someone as arrogant as he is he really needs to be a lot less fecking shite when the ball is at his feet. Our worst player yesterday allong with Rooney
We also can't build attacks at the moment beause every time we play the ball into his feet him either loses it or tries to do something fecking stupid.
He also got passed through on goal twice by Watford players and one time didn't even get a shot away and the other was too fecking slow to even get to the ball.
There's a few of our players who people will make excuses for the when the basic fact is that the only thing making them useless is their own uselessness.
For someone as arrogant as he is he really needs to be a lot less fecking shite when the ball is at his feet. Our worst player yesterday allong with Rooney
Speaking to my Liverpool supporting mate - he says that Zlatan, although he is/was a world class striker, is not mobile or dynamic enough - too static - for the modern-day Premier League (especially with Rooney with him), that he wants the ball to come to him. He contrasted it with Firmino - who has been leading the line for Liverpool (more as a false 9) - I guess he would do.
Fair? Or another bitter Liverpool fan?
Fair? Or another bitter Liverpool fan?
Him and Firmino are absolutely different, that's true. I also agree that him and Rooney are unlikely to work, it makes the entire centre area devoid of pace. That said, Zlatan is very suited to the kind of football Mourinho will have us play. I don't think there's anything like too static for the PL, it's just a generalisation when the truth is that different managers set their teams up differently. Be it Klopp or Pep, I don't see either wanting someone like Ibra leading the line for them. Mourinho and his football is different though.
That might be a fair opinion but not necessarily true. Zlatan is playing well but lack of movement of our team means all our attacking players look average. Looks more like a coaching issue than individual quality issue. When Zlatan drops deep, none of the midfielders or wide players make good runs to the box.
He isn't mobile enough but he has good movement around the box. He doesn't run around like a Rooney of old but that shouldn't be a problem.
Apparently he is just behind Messi and Ronaldo as he did score 50 goals last season
This is weird to come out today as his run and thrust was the initiating point for Rashford's goal against Watford.
The only bright spot - albeit a flickering, fading one - in a sea of mediocrity.
I think he has setup Rooney with a couple of really good chances, the flick vs Bournmouth was great. Good link up with Rashford yesterday.
He is a very good striker and we need to use him properly. Playing him with Rooney is stupid, hoofing long balls at him all game is also bloody stupid. I have no issues with him tbh, if we didn't have him this season we would likely be in trouble.
He is a very good striker and we need to use him properly. Playing him with Rooney is stupid, hoofing long balls at him all game is also bloody stupid. I have no issues with him tbh, if we didn't have him this season we would likely be in trouble.
Yeah, it was actually before that game - we were watching the Chelsea / Liverpool game in the pub
Why are people surprised that he isn't playing that well when we're not putting him in a position to succeed? He's missed some great chances, and that's a fair point for criticism. But from an overall perspective, it's the same as Pogba. If you like players who were excellent in different setups, you either tailor your setup to suit them - thereby putting them in a position to succeed, or you don't buy them at all - because they will likely not be as effective in setups that frustrate them. Don't buy a receding forward type striker who liked to get involved in the build up and make great use of an abundance of central room, when you want to play him as a traditional #9 ahead of a #10/SS.
Frightening pace, flank stretching ability and invention on the outside: Di María and Lucas
Hard working make shift wide attacker who helped 'set the stage' for Zlatan: Cavani
No #10 to detract from his 'license to playmake'
And apart from Zlatan, all front 5 players were decently quick (unlike Rooney, Mata and co).
Ibrahimović has a natural tendency to drop really deep and organize the play in the final third (much like Rooney when he's played further forward):
And we're not making making ample use of that ability because of how we set up, and the fact that we don't surround him with runners (Rashford's goal vs Watford is a decent exhibit for what Zlatan brings to the team even when he doesn't score - but we're not using that characteristic on a regular basis). Someone like Icardi would've been much more suited to our current high 9 style of play because he's more suited to playing 'in the box' a la Milito and Costa.
Frightening pace, flank stretching ability and invention on the outside: Di María and Lucas
Hard working make shift wide attacker who helped 'set the stage' for Zlatan: Cavani
No #10 to detract from his 'license to playmake'
And apart from Zlatan, all front 5 players were decently quick (unlike Rooney, Mata and co).
Ibrahimović has a natural tendency to drop really deep and organize the play in the final third (much like Rooney when he's played further forward):
And we're not making making ample use of that ability because of how we set up, and the fact that we don't surround him with runners (Rashford's goal vs Watford is a decent exhibit for what Zlatan brings to the team even when he doesn't score - but we're not using that characteristic on a regular basis). Someone like Icardi would've been much more suited to our current high 9 style of play because he's more suited to playing 'in the box' a la Milito and Costa.
We are falling into the trap of "Zlatan is massive let's hoof the ball too him" rather than treating him as a genuinely class footballer. A lot of the passes up to him aren't really aimed to him, rather than kicked in his direction and hope it sticks.
If he ball is played to him he holds it fine, but if it's a genuine 50/50 then he isn't always on the front foot that I've noticed. No surprise though, we are a completely different side than PSG.
Looking at that PSG set-up just confirms to me that we should be doing the exact same thing. Give Pogba and Zlatan space to do their thing and build the team around them.
That would require fast forwards out wide playing direct (two of Martial, Rashford and Mkhitaryan) and, most importantly, no number ten (no Rooney, at all, not even a bit).
That would require fast forwards out wide playing direct (two of Martial, Rashford and Mkhitaryan) and, most importantly, no number ten (no Rooney, at all, not even a bit).
The argument about playing against strong defenders doesn't make because the French Ligue is very physical with lots of clumsy/stupid tackles flying around each weekend. Strength isn't an issue for Zlatan, it's linking up with his teammates and the quality of passes he receives that is making him half the player he is.
You're describing exactly how we set up yesterday.
The "no Rooney" stuff is a given, as he's playing so badly you'd expect our attacking football to improve dramatically without him. Although the completely toothless Feyenoord performance has dented that hope slightly.
Rashford is naturally direct but that's not how we're set-up at all. We're passive. Sitting back, inviting pressure, everyone wanting to drop deep etc.
We're far too static and easy to manage.
It's unlikely that Klopp would've preferred Ibra for his team instead of Firmino, that's a fair assumption. With the high-pressing game and all the running that Klopp expects from all his players Ibra doesn't seem like a natural fit.
He is still a better goalscorer than Firmino though, and a better player (maybe arguable, looking at his age, but still).
Rooney's presence highlights Ibra's weaknesses and hides his strengths - in a fluid front three with, say, Martial and Rashford, and without a dedicated number 10, a false 9 PSG version Ibra would still be brilliant in any league. Hell, even playing for a disorganized and unbalanced team he already scored what, 5 goals for us?
- Status