Actually according to Squawka, Pogba created the most chances. And Zlatan's assist count is consistent with someone who's playing 90 minutes all the time.
10
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 46
- Goals
- 28
- Assists
- 9
- Yellow cards
- 8
- Status
Actually according to Squawka, Pogba created the most chances. And Zlatan's assist count is consistent with someone who's playing 90 minutes all the time.
Don't know which is newer, but this one:
Well, actually both Pogba and Ibra could potentially have had 10 more assists...
Hopefull Griezmann or someone similar will come in the summer...
Wouldn't say No to a new main CF and a proper RW.
Looks like it's just the PL. The one I show is all competitions.
Could be. I'd really like to see both his and Pogba's on some compilation video tbh.
Yes, would like that too.
Saw these League stats (I'm not sure, maybe I've posted this earlier, can't remember):
Ibra has scored 15 in 26 PL games which is good but nothing extraordinary. For the amount of chances we create, it's poor for the lone striker to have a worse goal-to-minute than Defoe, Giroud, Kane, Diego Costa just to name a few. Our big chance conversion rate is the worst in the PL and the problem starts right from the top with Ibrahimovic. The others should also improve, I'm not putting the whole blame on Ibra.
Is that from total attempt on target or all attempts?Yes, would like that too.
Saw these League stats (I'm not sure, maybe I've posted this earlier, can't remember):
Have to go, but you're welcome to read the article (don't remember if it says how the stats are made):
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-compares-to-europes-top-strikers-this-season
The problem with Zlatan isn't a case of ability. It's not about key passes, shot accuracy or conversion rate (even though he's taken surprisingly few shots from outside the box) – despite the clear cut chances he's missed this season.
I can list the crucial misses, but it's pointless considering the number of goals he's scored as well. Also, as some others already have pointed out, it's pretty much impossible to score on each and every goal scoring chance. Besides, all players have off-days! All-in-all, he's a fantastic footballer in general and world class striker.
Zlatan's real problem and what usually impacts his team is his some times extracurricular activities on the pitch, drawing too much of the wrong type of attention to himself and most importantly, effecting the team negatively.
Yesterday against Bournemouth, we're up 1–0, we're actually playing good football. All of the sudden, the crowd reacts. What happened? Nothing football wise, that became evident quickly. I thought to myself, oh oh, hopefully our momentum doesn't get distraught. It did. Mings is just trying to mark him in a next to nothing open play. Pretty standard in-the-face marking from a defender, trying to get in under the opponent's skin. Well, it worked didn't it… for some reason, Zlatan loses his cool, his head and tosses/wrestles down Mings out of nowhere, basically for being marked. Classic Zlatan-puffing-up-his-chest.
This is what started the disgraceful sceneries for the remainder of the match, disrupting our thus far playing rhythm, and ultimately, his own focus and mental commitment, pretty evident in that penalty miss. That was a weakly struck penalty, by Zlatan's standards. He always goes for the bottom left corner, the goalkeepers who actually read this seldom have a chance to save them anyway though, because of the sheer power. I've lost count of how many of those penalties he's scored, he's scored them so bloody often. Just YouTube it for reference. But more than that penalty strike, there were also so many starts-and-stops in the second half, borderline comical. Even if we had won this match, there's no denying the fact what actually happened yesterday.
Zlatan should've definitely been yellow carded for the first wrestling grapple, surely one of the assistant referees must had seen that infraction? He wasn't, and Mings follows it all up with that disgusting stomp (100% intentional, anyone denying it hasn't actually analysed the situation), and Zlatan follows it up with an equally 100% intentional elbow moments later. Can't say I blame him for that one though.
Mings should get at least a 5-match suspension for that, and Zlatan perhaps a 3-match suspension for the elbow. Perhaps a match extra, making it 4, also factoring in his wrestling grapple? We shall see.
Zlatan has done this countless of times. We've been pretty lucky this season because he hasn't done the stuff he usually has done in his career, and the times he has, they have been a bit more "minor" and he's gotten away with it (his heel-stomp on Coleman earlier this season comes to mind, 100% intentional as well, 100% Zlatanesque). I've actually been waiting for a moment like this, because sooner or later he was going to fall back into his old inevitable bad-boy-manners. Yesterday was just a clear example of it, and the main issue plaguing Zlatan his whole career. His arrogance is a strange charming part of him and in some ways contribute to his abilities too, but there are downsides to it as well. Unfortunately, more times than not, it hurts the team.
This is Zlatan, this is why his teams don't win the Champions League, regardless of their competence, because he becomes the focal point, for all kinds of reasons, and football is a team sport. He wants it to be about him, no matter how much he talks about his team. More often than not he's more concerned about and speaks in terms of himself rather than the collective, even if he says otherwise in his interviews.
I like Zlatan, but Zlatan giveth, and Zlatan taketh. I'm neither emotional or trying to bash him, just merely pointing out my impressions of him.
/a Swede who's been following his career very closely for the past 15 years or so
I can list the crucial misses, but it's pointless considering the number of goals he's scored as well. Also, as some others already have pointed out, it's pretty much impossible to score on each and every goal scoring chance. Besides, all players have off-days! All-in-all, he's a fantastic footballer in general and world class striker.
Zlatan's real problem and what usually impacts his team is his some times extracurricular activities on the pitch, drawing too much of the wrong type of attention to himself and most importantly, effecting the team negatively.
Yesterday against Bournemouth, we're up 1–0, we're actually playing good football. All of the sudden, the crowd reacts. What happened? Nothing football wise, that became evident quickly. I thought to myself, oh oh, hopefully our momentum doesn't get distraught. It did. Mings is just trying to mark him in a next to nothing open play. Pretty standard in-the-face marking from a defender, trying to get in under the opponent's skin. Well, it worked didn't it… for some reason, Zlatan loses his cool, his head and tosses/wrestles down Mings out of nowhere, basically for being marked. Classic Zlatan-puffing-up-his-chest.
This is what started the disgraceful sceneries for the remainder of the match, disrupting our thus far playing rhythm, and ultimately, his own focus and mental commitment, pretty evident in that penalty miss. That was a weakly struck penalty, by Zlatan's standards. He always goes for the bottom left corner, the goalkeepers who actually read this seldom have a chance to save them anyway though, because of the sheer power. I've lost count of how many of those penalties he's scored, he's scored them so bloody often. Just YouTube it for reference. But more than that penalty strike, there were also so many starts-and-stops in the second half, borderline comical. Even if we had won this match, there's no denying the fact what actually happened yesterday.
Zlatan should've definitely been yellow carded for the first wrestling grapple, surely one of the assistant referees must had seen that infraction? He wasn't, and Mings follows it all up with that disgusting stomp (100% intentional, anyone denying it hasn't actually analysed the situation), and Zlatan follows it up with an equally 100% intentional elbow moments later. Can't say I blame him for that one though.
Mings should get at least a 5-match suspension for that, and Zlatan perhaps a 3-match suspension for the elbow. Perhaps a match extra, making it 4, also factoring in his wrestling grapple? We shall see.
Zlatan has done this countless of times. We've been pretty lucky this season because he hasn't done the stuff he usually has done in his career, and the times he has, they have been a bit more "minor" and he's gotten away with it (his heel-stomp on Coleman earlier this season comes to mind, 100% intentional as well, 100% Zlatanesque). I've actually been waiting for a moment like this, because sooner or later he was going to fall back into his old inevitable bad-boy-manners. Yesterday was just a clear example of it, and the main issue plaguing Zlatan his whole career. His arrogance is a strange charming part of him and in some ways contribute to his abilities too, but there are downsides to it as well. Unfortunately, more times than not, it hurts the team.
This is Zlatan, this is why his teams don't win the Champions League, regardless of their competence, because he becomes the focal point, for all kinds of reasons, and football is a team sport. He wants it to be about him, no matter how much he talks about his team. More often than not he's more concerned about and speaks in terms of himself rather than the collective, even if he says otherwise in his interviews.
I like Zlatan, but Zlatan giveth, and Zlatan taketh. I'm neither emotional or trying to bash him, just merely pointing out my impressions of him.
/a Swede who's been following his career very closely for the past 15 years or so
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So if our only goal threat had a bad half, he should be of? Do you ever see Costa, Sanchez or Kane being subed after having a bad half?
The bit in bold goes for your average players who are replaceable, like Martial, Rashford, Mata, Lingard. Zlatan and Pogba in particular are players you never take of, since they are that important to the team, and even if playing badly they can come up with something out of nothing. They are untouchable the same way some of the Chelsea players were when Mourinho was there.
Yes
But Ibra's scored two from free kicks,one was a defelection and the other was really good. But I also think that from a distance Pogba should be taking more and from nearer mata is pretty good.The main reason why he should be off at half time, is because he was on a yellow, was getting in all sorts of spats and after the ref saw the elbow at the interval, he'd be looking for an excuse to send him off and level things up. And on top of that he was a bad.
Failing that, when the subs happened at circa 65-70 mins, he should have gone off as he was still being bad.
By your argument every player that is your best player in that position, should never be substituted, however bad he's playing. What a bizarre approach.
EDIT: And Kane has been subbed in 9 games this season. Some of which they weren't winning. I can't be bothered to search for every other player. But only Ibra is unsubbed all season.
I agree but yesterday was not his day, it was a poor penalty.
Big chances missed:
Zlatan 17
Sanchez 7
Kane 6
Costa 6
Zlatan's in a league of his own.
Admittedly, he's been excellent in the cups but in the league he's been very wasteful and if anything he's letting the team down. United create much more big chances for him than other teams for their main striker. But the other top teams score much more golas.
Zlatan 17
Sanchez 7
Kane 6
Costa 6
Zlatan's in a league of his own.
Admittedly, he's been excellent in the cups but in the league he's been very wasteful and if anything he's letting the team down. United create much more big chances for him than other teams for their main striker. But the other top teams score much more golas.
Elbowing that guy was really stupid from him and I think he deserves a retrospective ban for it, no question. But I think Mourinho trusts such an experienced player not to get himself in more trouble in second half.
The bold, yeah it's really bizzare, Mourinho has no idea what he's doing. Maybe you should go teach him a thing or two about how substitutions work.
And I didn't say every player that's best in his position but your star players, the untouchables.
The bold, yeah it's really bizzare, Mourinho has no idea what he's doing. Maybe you should go teach him a thing or two about how substitutions work.
Again, such a bizarre statement. Because we're just people on the internet and he's the actual manager it means that everything he does is right? Or that we're automatically at fault for criticising it? What's the point of this forum then? And If he's doing everything right how come we're 6th considering the money and the squad at our disposal?
Since you believe that it's right that a 35yo Ibra never gets subbed and you believe that there should be "untouchables" in the team... I don't really think we have much else to discuss on this. Our views are very different so let's drop it.
It seems my eye rolling technique is improving for every time I read through this thread..
Yes Zlatan was terrible yesterday bar the two headers to Pogba in the final minutes. He deserves all the stick he gets for that game imo. It's funny though how the people who are less than thrilled about having him in the team rushes out of hiding as soon as they see a chance.. and all they do is repeat the same arguments over and over, even when the guy they're critizing was a major influence in the cup title win just a few days prior.
Can the one's who blame Zlatan's missed chances for us still being just 6th sit down and think over just how rediculous that argument is? It was rediculous 3 months ago and it's even more rediculous now. It's the mother of all hypothetical "if" arguments and it won't become any better no matter how many times you say it.
Saying that we would probably score more goals if our top scorer and chance creator wasn't in the team is another one of those gems.. I'm not sure but I don't think Mourinho prefers to be in the 6th with Zlatan playing every game rather than in the top 4 with Zlatan on the bench.. If he had a system without Zlatan where he could see us playing better then he would play that system, simple as.
I don't remember exactly but hasn't he scored more goals up til this part of the season than any other player we've had in the last 15 years except Ronaldo and Rooney in 08 and 09 (both in title winning/CL finalist teams)? But nah, if he isn't on a world record goal scoring run a la prime Messi then we should just shrug our shoulders at whatever he achieves, right?
Kane has been the PL top scorer for the past two seasons and is the current top scorer right now, Costa is playing in the best team in the league and is a proven striker who's joint 2nd. Why exactly is it poor to have worse goal-to-minute ratio than them?
Yes Zlatan was terrible yesterday bar the two headers to Pogba in the final minutes. He deserves all the stick he gets for that game imo. It's funny though how the people who are less than thrilled about having him in the team rushes out of hiding as soon as they see a chance.. and all they do is repeat the same arguments over and over, even when the guy they're critizing was a major influence in the cup title win just a few days prior.
Can the one's who blame Zlatan's missed chances for us still being just 6th sit down and think over just how rediculous that argument is? It was rediculous 3 months ago and it's even more rediculous now. It's the mother of all hypothetical "if" arguments and it won't become any better no matter how many times you say it.
Saying that we would probably score more goals if our top scorer and chance creator wasn't in the team is another one of those gems.. I'm not sure but I don't think Mourinho prefers to be in the 6th with Zlatan playing every game rather than in the top 4 with Zlatan on the bench.. If he had a system without Zlatan where he could see us playing better then he would play that system, simple as.
I don't remember exactly but hasn't he scored more goals up til this part of the season than any other player we've had in the last 15 years except Ronaldo and Rooney in 08 and 09 (both in title winning/CL finalist teams)? But nah, if he isn't on a world record goal scoring run a la prime Messi then we should just shrug our shoulders at whatever he achieves, right?
Kane has been the PL top scorer for the past two seasons and is the current top scorer right now, Costa is playing in the best team in the league and is a proven striker who's joint 2nd. Why exactly is it poor to have worse goal-to-minute ratio than them?
It doesn't mean everything he does is right, and I didn't say you are at fault for critisizing him, you have a right to an opinion. But I'm also allowed to ridicule your opinion because I think it's absurd and has no connection to the reality of how a top manager makes decisions regarding subs.
And why are we in sixth place? Maybe because we have one person carying the team with little contribution from other attackers.
Yes, I think it's right that our star players should be untouchable. Mourinho has had those at Chelsea and other clubs, and look how wrong he was all these years while becoming one of the best in the world. But no, some random poster on the caf has a better understanding of how to manage a club.
I agree with most of what you say... but. It's not just the goals-to-minutes ratio. He takes more shots-per-goal than them and misses more clear-cut (big) chances than them. You can find the stats in this thread. In the league, compared to the other top strikers, he has been profligate. That's not a subject for debate, that's a fact.
Still love having him. I just want us to be less reliant on him and to have a plan B when he's having a stinker. Which happens more often than people think in here. He's been great in the cups but his league form has not been great and that's partly reflected in our league position.
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Throw the book at both. 5 games and 3 games respectively
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I actually think that the main reason for him staying is him also being good at the defensive duties i.e. corners, where he almost takes care of all of them. So by replacing him, he'll also have to sub in Fellaini to do Ibra's "job" in that department, and that is clearly something he doesn't want to do. Ibra's not good at just one thing. But like I said, I'm not disagreeing, just trying to understand Mourinho's way of thinking - if I'm right or not is a different question.
Mings should get at least 10 if Ibra gets 3. It's a miracle Ibra didn't get unconscious.
Do you have the same stats for the other players in the team?
Both were bad. I dont blame Ibra one bit. If that happened to me I would have done the same. However Ibra's was also dangerous and was pre-mediated. I dont know if you remember the Fashanu one on Mabbutt one years ago? Both incidents were bad.
Did you read the sentence before the one you bolded?
I don't believe it's the defensive part of his game, why he's leaving him on. It's not like we had any defending to do against 10 men. The reason is, and has always been even back at Inter that he's just to important for the attack to be subed. He can come up with something out of nowhere at any time, regardless of how bad he has been in the match. And there are no better alternatives either.
Found this, a bit old, from Jan 16, but:
Big difference is they were in their peak, Ibra's 35 years old...
There is absolutely no excuse for Zlatan elbowing. No matter what the guy's done to him. That's really unprofessinal for such an experienced player who's supposed to be a role model. I know it's a one of but that was incredibly stupid and selfish not considering how this could hurt the team.
This. As a fellow Swede, I couldn't agree more
Like Zlatan and his charm, but my overall impression about the advantages and didadvantages that comes with him are exactly similar.We don't know what happened during the game between those two. Some things don't turn up on camera. But Ming's must have done quite a few things before his stamp on his head. Because Ibra doesn't get frustrated like this anymore. 5-10 years ago, yes, but not that much anymore. He's not a machine, he's human - but I think him being "overused" could have to do with this also, being mentally and physically tired, it's harder to control yourself when "things go wrong".
But you're right. There's absolutely no excuse for what either of them have done, I'm just saying that these things happen sometimes in football - thankfully not that much anymore.
I actually think this likely suspension will be a good thing - Mourinho will have an excuse to try something new. And if it works, then he'll use it a couple of times even when Ibra's not suspended. And if it doesn't then he'll just continue the same way he's done before.
Yes I did. I'm not saying that it was the best penalty ever taken but it was far, far from the worst. You can't have seen a lot of penalties if you were frustrated by this one and that he "showed a lot of irresponsibility".. whatever that means.
He has cut that part of his game out a while ago, that's why I was so surprised how he could do something like that. But he is only human as you say and these things happen. Let's just hope he learns from it.
I don't agree though that the ban could be positive for us. Mourinho doesn't need an excuse to try someone else upfront. If he thought that's a viable option, then he would have tried it more.
They're also playing in different teams and in different positions. I'm not saying comparing to previous players is completely invalid but I'm not sure it's much use either.
However you look at it he's scored 15 in the league. It's a decent amount. It's not great though. One ahead of Defoe, a couple ahead of Ali. It's only six more than Troy Deeney. Given his status, his position and the team he plays for I don't think anybody could be blown away by his league form.
I'm not particularly criticising Zlatan over this but it's not some incredible amount of goals that's irreplaceable.
I'm not purposely ignoring his cup goals either. He's done well in those comps but the league is the priority.
Yes, it's dangerous. But at the same it looks as if Mings "mistimed" the jump and couldn't get high enough. Don't forget that they are the same height. Ibra usually does this, puts a lot of force on the opponents chest. So I hope that it wasn't an intentional elbow on his head, but planned to be on the chest.
But you are right. Hopefully a suspension will give Ibra some "well deserved" rest. He looked like he was going to collapse after the Southampton match. There was a "scene" where after the celebration when Ibra leaned towards someone and almost looked like he was going to faint - Pogba was next to him and saying some encouraging words, but Paul looked worried then. Don't know if I'm remembering wrong but that's something I think happened. I would like to see some clips on that but can't find any, so I don't know if I remember correctly or not.
Well, I was meaning, he won't make changes when everythings working (Ibra's doing well). This way he can try something without giving any explanations. It's never good to change things while everything going well.
Yeah, I understand what you mean now. It will be interesting to see how the youngsters fare by themselves.
You're right in everything you said, but if you think like that then you should think of how many goals the others make comparing with the other top 6 teams:
Manchester United, 39 goals = Ibra-15, Mata-6, Pogba-4, Mkhi-3, Martial-3, Rashford-3
Chelsea, 55 goals = Costa-16, Hazard-10, Pedro-7, Willian-5, Marcos Alonso-4
Arsenal, 55 goals = Sanchez-17, Giroud-8, Walcott-8, Ozil-5, Iwobi-3
Spurs, 53 goals = Kane-19, Alli-13, Song-7, Eriksen-5, Rose-2
Liverpool, 58 goals = Mane-12, Firmino-9, Lallana-7, Coutinho-6, Milner-6
Manchester City, 53 goals = Aguero-12, Sterling-6, Nolito-4, De Bruyne-4, Iheanacho-4, Toure-4
It's probably clear to everyone what the problem is?
- Status