Two headers to Pogba in the late minutes. But Paul missed both chances...
10
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And passing isn't Ibra's "job". What's that got to do with anything? It's not like he's a CB. Pogba is a goalscorer, not striker, but he can score. Too much woodwork this season though.
This. Very smart post.
You are aware of that Ibra is one of the better penalty scorers in the world? Pogba gets free kick chances, but he hasn't scored yet, or has he? Ibra has at least two (the crap one against St. Etienne and the beautiful one against Southampton in the EFL final).
I don't like it when people guess. How on earth do you know that Rashford would have had a better chance than Ibra?
Many in here have basically wanted him to be subbed off when having a bad day, similar to the Bournemouth one, but he's been able to score.
But I do agree that he should be subbed off sometimes. I actually Think that his bad performance against Bournemouth was because of the EFL final against Southampton. Maybe just me, but I thought that he looked extremely tired the last minutes and after the game. So this performance could be because of physical and mental fatigue.
That was my point. I don't mind that he missed chances, I don't mind that he missed the penalty. I mind that at 1-1 when a United goal before half time would have changed the game, he decided to elbow an opponent rather than try to score. It wasn't an aerial challenge in midfield. He was a few yards out on the back post.
That's self before team and is not acceptable.
As much as I agree that an elbow is awful, you should also take in to consideration that he's only human and Mings was totally lethal earlier and it's basically a miracle that Ibra didn't get unconscious.
He's been a team player most of the time so this happening once or twice, should be "acceptable" (wrong word but you get the point).
We'll find out soon enough when he's banned for 3 games.
It'll be annoying for Martial or Rashford if they play well and score, only to get bumped again as soon as he comes back.
It'll be annoying for Martial or Rashford if they play well and score, only to get bumped again as soon as he comes back.
It was understandable from a human perspective but it will prove a very costly decision. 2 points dropped, 3 games at least without him.
Don't get me wrong, Zlatan has been fantastic this season. I'm a big fan and he's still clearly the best striker at the club. But he did let the team down today. Unfortunately, he wasn't the only one.
Yeah, these potential 3 games without him are going to be interesting. Hopefully Rashford or even Rooney will get the job done. As long as someone scores I really don't care how Ibra's "replacement" will perform. Think the most important thing is going to be Mkhitaryan if Ibra's going to get a long suspension. If "he works" then the team won't miss Ibra that much. And a few of the upcoming matches aren't that tough anyway, Middlesbrough, one of them I believe?
Hopefully performance like yesterday will open our eyes that ONE year contract with option for another is the right way to go. You CAN'T give a 36 years old player a multi-years deal, EVER.
I just had that gut wrenching feeling that when he stepped up to take the penalty that he would miss given everything going on in the game 
I felt that way too. I think the incident got to him and took his mind out of the game. It's bound to happen once in a while even to the mentally strongest playersI just had that gut wrenching feeling that when he stepped up to take the penalty that he would miss given everything going on in the game
He'll miss the fa cup tie if it comes to a 3 match ban, won't he ?
Zlatan maybe a physical beast and fit as feck, but his tiredness shows in other forms like today. He doesn't get bogged down physically but loses his sharpness and misses sitters and penalties.
He's been doing this for the whole season. He never gets rested or subbed. Never gets benched after a bad game. My take is it's his way of saying " I'm totally swamped, don't think I can make it today" , which Jose keeps ignoring.
Zlatan maybe a physical beast and fit as feck, but his tiredness shows in other forms like today. He doesn't get bogged down physically but loses his sharpness and misses sitters and penalties.
He's been doing this for the whole season. He never gets rested or subbed. Never gets benched after a bad game. My take is it's his way of saying " I'm totally swamped, don't think I can make it today" , which Jose keeps ignoring.
He'll be a huge loss. It will be a big test of the attacking depth. Hopefully Rashford takes his chance like he did last season.
I'm not sure it's that simple. What if our play is geared to Zlatan and thus benefits only his numbers but hampers the other players because of lacking variety and dynamism?
Imagine for a moment that we didn't sign Zlatan and played all season without him. Do people believe that we would have scored less goals than Bournemouth and WBrom? Seriously? That would mean that Jose is well past it and doesn't know how to get the best out of an excellent group of players (Pogba, Mhki, Martial, Rashford, Mata).
Ibra has scored 15 in 26 PL games which is good, but not even close to his Ligue 1 records. Defoe, Giroud, Kane, Costa are some of the strikers with a better minute to goal ratio than Ibra.
Our lone striker cant finish to save his life, so in my opinion its a far bigger problem than our midfielder failing to put away chances. Im not defending Pogba btw, his finishing is extremely poor.
I don't think Zlatan coming here with Mourinho is ever a question. Mourinho had all the time working behind the scene. Even if Zlatan wouldn't come, I believe Mourinho would go out there getting a different forward. Rashford & Martial's hold up play is not what looks like Mourinho's central forward. Both ain't efficient with their back to the goal.
I agree there is two sides of the coin for our goal scoring problem. However, other players definitely have their chances to score too which they also failed to convert.
Is it just me or are Rashford, Martial, Pogba & Mata all overrated on here? The only proper matchwinner of those group of players is Mata & even he's an inherently flawed player.
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I didn't say that we'd compete for the title without Zlatan. But I very much doubt that we'd be worse off without him. We've scored only 2 league goals more than Bournemouth and 3 more than WBrom. Do you believe that United would have scored less goals than these teams without Zlatan?
As things stand our attack is much worse than the attack of the other top 6 teams (they've scored 50+). I very much doubt that the reason is down to the other players and has nothing to do with Zlatan. If we had Mhki and Pogba last season, we'd have been on the same goal tally after 26 games even with a past it Rooney up front.
I don't think we'd be better off without Ibra but it highlights, rather than Ibra's negative influence, the fact that Mourinho has struggled to get the best out of anyone in an attacking sense bar a guy who is already a proper top class elite footballer. That's disappointing. Noone is improved, noone is showing new qualities. It's just one established attacker doing his usual stuff and Mkhitarian who was sidelined for months showing his class.
We would be far worse without Ibra. Put Rashford or Martial upfront instead and we would not even be close to top 4. He's scored most of our goals and is our player of the season. It's just mental to think we would be as high without him.
He is heaving a way better season than we thought he would but looking back he did cost us quite a few points with poor finishing. The thought that if we had RvN instead of Zlatan we would be in the title race right now occured to me quite a few times.
It's mental to think that we'd be a team like WBrom or Everton without Zlatan (unless one thinks that Jose is completely past it). How many Everton players would start for United? If Jose can't outperform Everton or WBrom without having Zlatan, then he is a waste of time big time.
This. He is our lone striker and our play is geared towards putting him through on goal and he has exceeded expectations but he has missed chances at crucial moments in games that have cost us points.
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/chancenverwertung/wettbewerb/GB1
I wonder where the problem is...
I wonder where the problem is...
To his credit he has been excellent in scoring in all competitions and was our key player in the cup final.
Looking the Premier League in isolation he hasn't been good enough IMO. He has had 12 more attempts on goal than the next highest in the top 20 scorers this season but is the 5th highest scorer overall. Defoe has one less goal than him in less than half the attempts for contrast.
There was a stat posted from Skysports recently that stated Zlatan had significantly more 'big chance misses' than any other player the league and he added 3 or 4 to that tally yesterday. United also have the worst 'big chance' conversion rate in the league.
The question is if we would fare any better with him not in the team, is it his skill that gets into all those positions to score and he is pulling his weight in the league after all? Thanks to his elbow we will get a chance to find out.
Can we get Zlatan's conversation rate? Number of attempts etc...
This is not an excuse, who were we playing Madrid or Byern or was he in Baggio's situation? part of his dozens of miss certain goal chances by him but speaking of the penalty I'd excuse him a bit if he tried with a hard shot but the GK was superman and saved it, but to shoot it the way he did yesterday is so frustrating and shows lot of irresponsibility, the penalty would've taken us a place ahead after many critics to our 6th position in a tough top4 fight and he ruined it.. There's no excuse, the only satisfying thing is that he admitted his fault
It isnt that simple. If he had scored those missed chances how do you know he would have scored goals he did score this season?
Did you see his free kick yesterday??
Hit the post and bar twice out of what 5 attempts this season?
Zlatan is on the downward spiral and yet still one of the best strikers in the league. The problem hasn't be him this season it's been when he has an off day or does not score no one else steps up to the plate and helps out with goals. Anyone saying we shouldn't try and sign Griezman needs their head examined imo.
What games could he miss? Chelsea, Boro and WBA?
This, he had a poor game by his standards yesterday but he can't be expected to play out of his skin every game. Others need to step up and do their bit, Pogba for example was dire yesterday, in the 2nd half against 10 the opportunity was there to get the win, and OK Ibrahimovic missed the penalty and had an off-day, but others need to do more whether or not Ibrahimovic is playing well. I am sure he would be the first to admit he played poorly yesterday. If he is going to miss 3 games, then others will really need to up their game to try and cover his absence, but they should also be doing more to support him even when he is there.
I wouldn't be too critical of the penalty - It was a hard shot into the corner. When he stepped up I knew he was never going to score, I wanted him to shoot high down the middle. The missed chance from Rooneys pass is the one I cannot forgive him. Shocking and unnecessary touch in a position where he should be scoring. If he gets banned for 3 matches then he should be docked 3 weeks worth of wages. It is unacceptable for a guy who is 35 to be so immature and I cannot believe his excuse in the interview should have just kept shut. I do not know what is the reason he was not sent off, but surely the ref could not have seen it hence the retrospective punishment is on the cards. His positioning was also terrible, there were several times our players got into a good position on the left looking for a cross and he was nowhere near to be seen in that box.
He has taken full responsibility for us not winning. Pity some of the others don't come out and take responsibility for not sharing the goalscoring. He has carried us so far and yesterday was a bad day for him. Some of the others have to show some guts.
Bit unfair on Ibra. He only a week ago scored two goals - the second was his only chance and he took it. He's basically had a good conversion rate lately. This Bournemouth game was just like those during his drought period - days when everything goes wrong. No striker in the world can score on every chance they get. For instance - Diego Costa mid Jan 4 to Feb 12 - 10 shots, 5 on target, 5 off target, 1 goal - does that mean he's bad? No, it has to do with form. I do think Ibra's game was bad yesterday due to physical and mental fatigue.
How can some in here have short memory. Ibra has helped the team a lot of times and should be "allowed" to have off days - and then his teammates should help scoring. Other top teams have at least one more player on 10+ goals. A world class team has to have wingers on 10+ and a midfielder on about 10 - it won't work like this when Ibra has to do everything. When he has an off day, the team can't win. So it's not fair on him, because like I said, it's impossible to score all the time.
Keane was spot on when he was talking about how we're still 6th despite all the talk of United being back but I think he chose the wrong person to frame that narrative.
Zlatan's talked about himself "already conquering England" or how he's a "winner" but his profiligacy has been a big reason why we're still just sixth.
Scoring goals as a United forward is a given. We shouldn't be handing out plaudits to anybody who comes in and does that bare minimum.
Zlatan's talked about himself "already conquering England" or how he's a "winner" but his profiligacy has been a big reason why we're still just sixth.
Scoring goals as a United forward is a given. We shouldn't be handing out plaudits to anybody who comes in and does that bare minimum.
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