Yevhen Konoplyanka

Adnan said:
All players have an off day from time to time, Ronaldo and Messi are prime examples.

He has all the required attributes to be a big hit for us, his electric pace along with his dribbling ability and technique make him very dangerous for opposing defences. Much better than Remy Cabella who you suggested.
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That would be true if you could name at least a dozen or so his good matches, but you can't. The reality is we re talking about a very small number of games to begin with, and he was only good in half of them, in the other half he was anonymous. So much for "dribbling ability and technique". He has those but in order to be a world class player you need to show them consistently.
I don't know if Cabella will be a sucess here. Maybe not, but i do believe he will be a success in England and he will be a very good player for NU if he goes there. And i am doubtful that if Konoplaynka'll go to England he will be a lasting success. In fact i would bet, it all will end like it had with Arshavin, he may have some great matches in his first season, but will struggle to be consistent and it will be downhill from there.
I've explained why already.
 
Adnan said:
All players have an off day from time to time, Ronaldo and Messi are prime examples.

He has all the required attributes to be a big hit for us, his electric pace along with his dribbling ability and technique make him very dangerous for opposing defences. Much better than Remy Cabella who you suggested.
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Are you his agent? :)

I haven't even seen this guy play once, but I am wondering why did Liverpool decide against signing him? And why is his club's chairman seemingly intent on selling him off?
 
Bestie07 said:
Are you his agent? :)

I haven't even seen this guy play once, but I am wondering why did Liverpool decide against signing him? And why is his club's chairman seemingly intent on selling him off?
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It might be political with Liverpool as they were messed around with in January to the extent that it was a bit humiliating.
 
Lane said:
That would be true if you could name at least a dozen or so his good matches, but you can't. The reality is we re talking about a very small number of games to begin with, and he was only good in half of them, in the other half he was anonymous. So much for "dribbling ability and technique". He has those but in order to be a world class player you need to show them consistently.
I don't know if Cabella will be a sucess here. Maybe not, but i do believe he will be a success in England and he will be a very good player for NU if he goes there. And i am doubtful that if Konoplaynka'll go to England he will be a lasting success. In fact i would bet, it all will end like it had with Arshavin, he may have some great matches in his first season, but will struggle to be consistent and it will be downhill from there.
I've explained why already.
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I've told you why I think he will be a success in the EPL

Being the main man at Dinipro means he will be given special attention when playing against the big clubs like Dynamo Kiev and Shakhtar Donetsk. Put him in a Man Utd team managed by Van Gaal with a good midfield and I maintain he will be a fantastic signing.

Cabella was always a player whose level was a club like Newcastle and isn't someone who I would call fast. He did play on the wing on occasions but would cut in centrally. Konoplyanka can beat a defender on the inside and the outside due to his searing pace.
 
Bestie07 said:
Are you his agent? :)

I haven't even seen this guy play once, but I am wondering why did Liverpool decide against signing him? And why is his club's chairman seemingly intent on selling him off?
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So if I attempt to refute posters who say he plays in a pub team etc I'm asked if I'm his agent, great logic?

Liverpool tried to sign him, even sending managing Director Ian Ayre to Ukraine to do the deal but the deal fell through due to political reasons which had a lot to do with the owner of Dinipro.
 
Adnan said:
So if I attempt to refute posters who say he plays in a pub team etc I'm asked if I'm his agent, great logic?

Liverpool tried to sign him, even sending managing Director Ian Ayre to Ukraine to do the deal but the deal fell through due to political reasons which had a lot to do with the owner of Dinipro.
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Kidding mate, chill.
 
Adnan said:
I've told you why I think he will be a success in the EPL

Being the main man at Dinipro means he will be given special attention when playing against the big clubs like Dynamo Kiev and Shakhtar Donetsk. Put him in a Man Utd team managed by Van Gaal with a good midfield and I maintain he will be a fantastic signing.

Cabella was always a player whose level was a club like Newcastle and isn't someone who I would call fast. He did play on the wing on occasions but would cut in centrally. Konoplyanka can beat a defender on the inside and the outside due to his searing pace.
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That's just because you haven't seen Konoplaynka play regularly even if it's like a one game a month. I don't know what you mean by "he will be given special attention when playing against the big clubs", he is not bad in those matches, more like he is inconsistent in general. Then every once in a while he does have a great games. But whether that is because he "rests" a lot in lesser matches is remains to be seen. I don't what to argue, cause nobody knows what is gonna happen, he might be great, if he does go to MU, i obviously would hope i'm wrong, but the guy does have the same general problem as Arshavin, exactly the same. Many of the top local players in Russia, Ukraine do. They kind of stroll through some games and they have much shorter seasons as well. So when they come to the league with 20 teams, where all the games are very competitive they just could not stomach it. That is a serious distinction between the likes of Griezmann, Cabella and Konoplaynka.
 
Lane said:
That's just because you haven't seen Konoplaynka play regularly even if it's like a one game a month. I don't know what you mean by "he will be given special attention when playing against the big clubs", he is not bad in those matches, more like he is inconsistent in general. Then every once in a while he does have a great games. But whether that is because he "rests" a lot in lesser matches is remains to be seen. I don't what to argue, cause nobody knows what is gonna happen, he might be great, if he does go to MU, i obviously would hope i'm wrong, but the guy does have the same general problem as Arshavin, exactly the same. Many of the top local players in Russia, Ukraine do. They kind of stroll through some games and they have much shorter seasons as well. So when they come to the league with 20 teams, where all the games are very competitive they just could not stomach it. That is a serious distinction between the likes of Griezmann, Cabella and Konoplaynka.
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I've seen him play more than you think, I've given you a break down of his game and I stand by my assessment. I hope we do sign him and then we can talk about him more.

Cabella you mentioned as being a better option than Konoplyanka and were refuted by the French posters on the forum who have watched him play more than most people on this forum. Your assessment of Cabella was wide of the mark when he plays most of his games in a central role.
 
Adnan said:
I've seen him play more than you think, I've given you a break down of his game and I stand by my assessment. I hope we do sign him and then we can talk about him more.

Cabella you mentioned as being a better option than Konoplyanka and were refuted by the French posters on the forum who have watched him play more than most people on this forum. Your assessment of Cabella was wide of the mark when he plays most of his games in a central role.
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If you are not watching Ukraine league, i am confident i've seen him much more. Because i do. I that respect it's very funny how you refer to a french poster that "watched him play more than most people on this forum".
 
Lane said:
If you are not watching Ukraine league, i am confident i've seen him much more. Because i do. I that respect it's very funny how you refer to a french poster that "watched him play more than most people on this forum".
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You may have seen him more than me I'm not disputing that, but after reading your assessment of Cabella I take your opinion with a pinch of salt.
 
Adnan said:
You may have seen him more than me I'm not disputing that, but after reading your assessment of Cabella I take your opinion with a pinch of salt.
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Well i did seen Cabella only in 5 matches or so, same as you've seen Konoplyanka i think. Although is do stand by my comments, in a bigger team on the wing he will be better. And much of his good play, assists were done from winger/inside forward area rather than central, cause he drifted to the side a lot.
But that a different matter, and it's a different situation in general, all those opinions, assessments about playing style, strengths and stuff, that is one thing, everybody can have one. What i am talking about though is a bit different. I am telling you, cause you don't seem to realize that at all, that ukrainian league is different and not in a way that some teams there is weaker. Not the whole "season structure" will be completely new to Konoplyanka. Players from France, Spain they are not adapted to english style, but at least they are adapted to european football.
 
Seems a bit like the Dnipro owner is keen to ship him out tbh.
 
Lane said:
Well i did seen Cabella only in 5 matches or so, same as you've seen Konoplyanka i think. Although is do stand by my comments, in a bigger team on the wing he will be better. And much of his good play, assists were done from winger/inside forward area rather than central, cause he drifted to the side a lot.
But that a different matter, and it's a different situation in general, all those opinions, assessments about playing style, strengths and stuff, that is one thing, everybody can have one. What i am talking about though is a bit different. I am telling you, cause you don't seem to realize that at all, that ukrainian league is different and not in a way that some teams there is weaker. Not the whole "season structure" will be completely new to Konoplyanka. Players from France, Spain they are not adapted to english style, but at least they are adapted to european football.
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So you're saying he will have problems adapting to the EPL?
 
Lane said:
And how many of his games have you seen exactly. I don't think he is that better. Actually his is very much like Young before MU. I could say even a bit worse cause Young at 24 was playing in a top league, ukraine's league is not even middle-class like Holland's, Portugal's. It could be higher in UEFA rating system, but that's just because they have strong top teams, and apart from these 5-6 good clubs, there are nothing there really.
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So he's not better than Young because Young played in the PL at the same age? That makes a lot of sense. Im not even saying he's better than Young as I haven't seen him enough, but at 12M he's worth a go IMO.
 
Lane said:
Many of the top local players in Russia, Ukraine ... kind of stroll through some games and they have much shorter seasons as well. So when they come to the league with 20 teams, where all the games are very competitive they just could not stomach it.
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That would be my big concern. Rebrov was a fantastic player who completely folded at Spurs after being bought for £11M (other fails include Schevchenko, Kharin, Smertin and Xhirkov).
 
Loublaze said:
So he's not better than Young because Young played in the PL at the same age? That makes a lot of sense. Im not even saying he's better than Young as I haven't seen him enough, but at 12M he's worth a go IMO.
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No, because Young was playing on roughly the same level at that age.
As i've said in the start of the thread or close to it, i have my doubts whether he can make it in United, but i do believe he could be a "cheaper option".
 
Adnan said:
So you're saying he will have problems adapting to the EPL?
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Yes, adapting to any top league would be tough for him, even Spain, again because intensity, competitiveness, the season's length even are completely different to what Konoplyanka used to. But adapting to EPL would be extremely big step. And i am concerned whether he can actually make it. I mean England is the only country with no winter break at all, in others you get like two weeks or something, Konoplyanka is playing in a league where there is a 3 months break. And that's just first, obvious point.
Griezmann for example would need to adjust as well, but for him it will like a "two steps" maybe. It will be an adjustment in terms of physique, stamina and intensity, but relatively moderate one. For Konoplyanka it will be huge. Completely different load in terms of training regime and games.
 
Lane said:
Yes, adapting to any top league would be tough for him, even Spain, again because intensity, competitiveness, the season's length even are completely different to what Konoplyanka used to. But adapting to EPL would be extremely big step. And i am concerned whether he can actually make it. I mean England is the only country with no winter break at all, in others you get like two weeks or something, Konoplyanka is playing in a league where there is a 3 months break. And that's just first, obvious point.
Griezmann for example would need to adjust as well, but for him it will like a "two steps" maybe. It will be an adjustment in terms of physique, stamina and intensity, but relatively moderate one. For Konoplyanka it will be huge. Completely different load in terms of training regime and games.
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If Kanchelskis can adapt in the early 90's then I'm sure Konoplyanka will be fine in 2014

We don't need a player like Griezmann who is similar to Januzaj, Mata, Rooney and Kagawa who we already have at the club.

Can you show me where Ashley Young has shown potential like Konoplyanka has shown in this vid against one of the best NT's in the world Germany.

 
Adnan said:
If Kanchelskis can adapt in the early 90's then I'm sure Konoplyanka will be fine in 2014
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And since Kanchelskis there were many failures, all of them mentioned in the thread. I would explain to you the key difference between Kanchelskis or any footballer born and raised in USSR and those who were trained in Russia and Ukraine, but you would probably not understand it. I will tell you that comparing Konoplyanka and Kanchelskis is like comparing scottish player who started trained with a Championship's club for example, played his way to Premier League and managed to do relatively well there to a scottish player that does well in SPL but always played in SPL.
Adnan said:
Can you show me where Ashley Young has shown potential like Konoplyanka has shown in this vid against one of the best NT's in the world Germany.

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I am not a fan of youtube videos scouting, and you do know that you picked an international friendly game actually? As showcases go, that just hilarious:lol:
But i think anybody who is posting on the forum can google something like "Young assists" or "Young Aston Villa" and see youtube clips themselves, i am sure Young have a lot of great clips, since he was actually good when he played in the side that was his level. Even in MU/England he did have some great matches.
 
Lane said:
And since Kanchelskis there were many failures, all of them mentioned in the thread. I would explain to you the key difference between Kanchelskis or any footballer born and raised in USSR and those who were trained in Russia and Ukraine, but you would probably not understand it. I will tell you that comparing Konoplyanka and Kanchelskis is like comparing scottish player who started trained with a Championship's club for example, played his way to Premier League and managed to do relatively well there to a scottish player that does well in SPL but always played in SPL.

I am not a fan of youtube videos scouting, and you do know that you picked an international friendly game actually? As showcases go, that just hilarious:lol:
But i think anybody who is posting on the forum can google something like "Young assists" or "Young Aston Villa" and see youtube clips themselves, i am sure Young have a lot of great clips, since he was actually good when he played in the side that was his level. Even in MU/England he did have some great matches.
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I've heard a lot of opinions on players who may find it difficult to settle in England due to xyz before them failing. An example is South American players who fans used to have reservations about playing in England because of prior failures. It's not as simple as that though.

Why did Kanchelskis settle fine in England? If you could please shed some light on that cause I'm noy sure I fully understand what you wrote.

I asked you to show me just one vid of Ashley Young showing the same kind of potential that Konoplyanka showed against a world class team like the Germans, shouldn't be too hard should it.? Same calibre remember.
 
Adnan said:
I asked you to show me just one vid of Ashley Young showing the same kind of potential that Konoplyanka showed against a world class team like the Germans, shouldn't be too hard should it.? Same calibre remember.
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It was a friendly match. It's idiotic to use it as a showcase. And that shows how little you know about actual football, because in that match Germany actually played in very unfamiliar and experimental formation 3-4-2-1. Which you would not know, cause you only watched the youtube clip. Never mind the fact it was three years ago as well.
And you are welcome to try re-watch MU-Arsenal match, Ashley looked great there and in United's shirt. And i am sure there are tons of his great matches against better teams while in Aston Villa.
Adnan said:
I've heard a lot of opinions on players who may find it difficult to settle in England due to xyz before them failing. An example is South American players who fans used to have reservations about playing in England because of prior failures. It's not as simple as that though.
Why did Kanchelskis settle fine in England? If you could please shed some light on that cause I'm noy sure I fully understand what you wrote.
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You don't seem to understand at all. It's not about lifestyle and settling fine in the country. And it's not about style, though i think Konoplyanka is a player for La Liga, not Premier League. It's about general fitness and the ability to cope with much bigger load in terms of games/training. And much more intensive, competitive league. Kanchelskis has been able to do well in Premier League cause he started and trained in Dynamo Kiev under Lobanovskyi. He is famous for team with a great fitness, where everybody runs non-stop for 90 minutes. And soviet league was way more competitive than Ukraine's is. Same as EPL and SPL. So before his transfer here Kanchelskis was ready for Premiership at least from a fitness, stamina point of view.
 
Lane said:
It was a friendly match. It's idiotic to use it as a showcase. And that shows how little you know about actual football, because in that match Germany actually played in very unfamiliar and experimental formation 3-4-2-1. Which you would not know, cause you only watched the youtube clip. Never mind the fact it was three years ago as well.
And you are welcome to try re-watch MU-Arsenal match, Ashley looked great there and in United's shirt. And i am sure there are tons of his great matches against better teams while in Aston Villa.
You don't seem to understand at all. It's not about lifestyle and settling fine in the country. And it's not about style, though i think Konoplyanka is a player for La Liga, not Premier League. It's about general fitness and the ability to cope with much bigger load in terms of games/training. And much more intensive, competitive league. Kanchelskis has been able to do well in Premier League cause he started and trained in Dynamo Kiev under Lobanovskyi. He is famous for team with a great fitness, where everybody runs non-stop for 90 minutes. And soviet league was way more competitive than Ukraine's is. Same as EPL and SPL. So before his transfer here Kanchelskis was ready for Premiership at least from a fitness, stamina point of view.
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The game was played November 2011 and I watched it live because there is plenty of streaming sites that show games. I never said it was a showcase game, did I? Germany did try a new system but that doesn't mean the Germans weren't trying to win the game. Konoplyanka had a brilliant game showing his explosiveness along with the rest of his attributes which I've mentioned before.

When we signed Ashley Young it was a very underwhelming signing as far as I was concerned. The game against Arsenal that you mention that finished 8-2 in our favour was a good performance from Young but beating Arsene Wenger and Arsenal at Old Trafford has been fairly routine for us in the last 20 years barring afew blips. their record against us at OT is pathetic under Wenger and I remember a midfield pairing of Veron and Phil Neville dominating them in the centre of the park. Konoplyanka is just a more explosive player than young ever was or will be. His ability to be dangerous cutting inside and from the outside is something that Young just does not have in his locker.

So Kanchelskis was able to handle the rigours of the EPL because he was trained at Dynamo Kiev under Lobanovskyi. So why did Shevchenko fail so miserably at Chelsea when he also trained under Lobanovskyi at Kiev? Just admit you haven't a clue how Konoplyanka will settle into life in the EPL. Whenever he's come up against English opposition he has shown his potential in every game and that to me shows he has the game to be a success in the EPL.
 
Adnan said:
The game was played November 2011 and I watched it live because there is plenty of streaming sites that show games. I never said it was a showcase game, did I? Germany did try a new system but that doesn't mean the Germans weren't trying to win the game. Konoplyanka had a brilliant game showing his explosiveness along with the rest of his attributes which I've mentioned before.

When we signed Ashley Young it was a very underwhelming signing as far as I was concerned. The game against Arsenal that you mention that finished 8-2 in our favour was a good performance from Young but beating Arsene Wenger and Arsenal at Old Trafford has been fairly routine for us in the last 20 years barring afew blips. their record against us at OT is pathetic under Wenger and I remember a midfield pairing of Veron and Phil Neville dominating them in the centre of the park. Konoplyanka is just a more explosive player than young ever was or will be. His ability to be dangerous cutting inside and from the outside is something that Young just does not have in his locker.

So Kanchelskis was able to handle the rigours of the EPL because he was trained at Dynamo Kiev under Lobanovskyi. So why did Shevchenko fail so miserably at Chelsea when he also trained under Lobanovskyi at Kiev? Just admit you haven't a clue how Konoplyanka will settle into life in the EPL. Whenever he's come up against English opposition he has shown his potential in every game and that to me shows he has the game to be a success in the EPL.
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So you think a two and half years old friendly, non-competitive game where opposition was clearly experimenting with formation and set-up is a good example of Konoplaynka abilities? But Young's good games for Villa and for United in the first year, against a top-4 opponent is dismissed. I have to say your analysis and your priorities are very strange indeed.
Why it happened the way it did with Shevchenko at Chelsea is pretty obvious. For anybody who has any sort of football understanding or not trying to be a deliberately ignorant.
 
Really don't see what all the fuzz is all about. People keep saying hes the next robben.

Im not seeing it at all. Looks like a good sub top player.
 
Lane said:
So you think a two and half years old friendly, non-competitive game where opposition was clearly experimenting with formation and set-up is a good example of Konoplaynka abilities? But Young's good games for Villa and for United in the first year, against a top-4 opponent is dismissed. I have to say your analysis and your priorities are very strange indeed.
Why it happened the way it did with Shevchenko at Chelsea is pretty obvious. For anybody who has any sort of football understanding or not trying to be a deliberately ignorant.
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I've never rated Young and his displays at Villa never convinced me into thinking he was a Man Utd player. He played in friendlies for England and never showed potential that Konoplyanka has shown. If you're going to dismiss the Germany game then lets look at the more recent games against England that were competitive and see how he performed against some of the best England has to offer.

What happened to Shevchenko was pretty obvious? Was it as obvious as Remy Cabella being a winger for us?
 
Brightonian said:
Well, every player has to have a raving caf fanboy, looks like Konoplyanka's got his sorted.
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If Brendan Rodgers and Van Gaal think he's good enough to play at the elite level then I take your comments as a great compliment.
 
Adnan said:
If Brendan Rodgers and Van Gaal think he's good enough to play at the elite level then I take your comments as a great compliment.
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Interesting, I've not heard them say anything of the sort. If it's any consolation, you're on the same wavelength as the Daily Star and the Mirror.
 
Adnan said:
I've never rated Young and his displays at Villa never convinced me into thinking he was a Man Utd player. He played in friendlies for England and never showed potential that Konoplyanka has shown. If you're going to dismiss the Germany game then lets look at the more recent games against England that were competitive and see how he performed against some of the best England has to offer.
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Whether you rated Young or not is not an issue, the issue that he had a good games, even in United's shirt and you are using 2,5 years old friendly match as a prove that Konoplyanka is supposedly have great potential. Where in fact you have not even watched a 10 full games with this fella. As i've said before he did well at Wembley, but nothing great really, except a good hit for the goal. He did have a good game, but then in Ukraine, in Kiev he was piss poor and did not exhibit any sort of threat at all. You probably "conveniently" did not watch that one.
Adnan said:
What happened to Shevchenko was pretty obvious?
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I give you three guesses, i think everybody should comfortably manage even with with one, it's that obvious. What is a key difference between Kanchelskis's transfer to MU and Shevchenko's transfer to Chelsea? In terms of general fitness.
 
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