Should we have send Ronaldo, Rooney, Rafael, Anderson and Jones to 'dominate' the reserves before we gave them the chance in the first team?
Would you take Pogba back?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Oh please this is just embarrassing.
Ando would probably fail in doing that
We messed the whole thing up IMO, no matter how much we can try to spin it around to make Pogba look bad he didn't really do much wrong in the whole saga. He wanted first-team opportunities and was aware that he weren't going to get them for a while at United even though we were very short in numbers in midfield, he grew frustrated at the lack of chances and then Juventus came with the promises. He didn't care much about playing for United from that point because he knew that another big club were willing to give him a decent contract as well as promise him some playing time.
I still remember how people laughed at him moving there because Juventus' midfield looked so strong prior to his arrival - Vidal, Pirlo, Marchisio were all class and they had more midfielders on the fringes. He was given a chance from the first moment though and made the best out of it. Fair play to him for taking the opportunity, he'd probably still be playing 20 minutes against Stoke and West Brom had he stayed at United while watching Anderson, Jones and Giggs in midfield IMO. He'd certainly be nowhere near France national team.
I still remember how people laughed at him moving there because Juventus' midfield looked so strong prior to his arrival - Vidal, Pirlo, Marchisio were all class and they had more midfielders on the fringes. He was given a chance from the first moment though and made the best out of it. Fair play to him for taking the opportunity, he'd probably still be playing 20 minutes against Stoke and West Brom had he stayed at United while watching Anderson, Jones and Giggs in midfield IMO. He'd certainly be nowhere near France national team.
Why? Bar Rooney (and possibly Ronaldo), Pogba was as good as any of them when he was 18. Ok, he isn't as talented as Ronaldo (of course but bar Messi who is) but Ronaldo was hardly a world beater at 18. Pogba is already a better player than Jones (not saying that he'll have a better career than him but at the moment he is) and if he wasn't ready at May can somehow explain me how he was ready at September for Juve?
I agree.
All those players except Rafael had first team experience.
yup. from his career's point of view he did the right decision to move. i agree that we messed up the whole thing, from his contract and of course his first team opportunities. i always believe he should be a bit patient considering sir alex never actually gave an 18 year old a start in CM, but he is not born and bred United so he would never understand and wait like a young scholes or a young beckham. but he is a confident lad and thinks he was already good enough to play back then. had we gave him more chance our CM are probably sorted by now.
Yes they did, Rooney began playing at 16, Ronaldo 17. So it kind of puts your point about Pogba's age into irrelevance. If they are good enough they should get opportunities. He wasn't getting them at United so he correctly moved to another club who recognised he was ready.
When players are that good what is the point in wasting their development time in an uncompetitive reserve league? His boom in development has been due to the fact he is playing with, and learning from legends like Andrea Pirlo week in week out. Not fecking around sharing a shit quality reserve game with Ryan Tunnicliffe.
Might sound harsh but its the reality of the situation. Paul Pogba knew better what was right for him than Ferguson did, people need to accept that. It's just how this one panned out.
What does it matter if a player is good enough? For people who think that he wasn't ready, explain then how he was ready for Juve (when everyone of their three midfielders would walk into our line up and Pirlo/Vidal would likely even be our best midfielder) only 2-3 months later?
I couldn't agree any more. We can always look at things but one thing is sure, Pogba made the best decision for his career to leave Utd and Utd also did a good but letting go of an unhappy player.
Look I don't deny that he was good enough. But we're never going to agree or find middle ground on this issue and I know I'm in the minority, but I won't change my views on the matter.
Perfectly said. IMO Pogba made the best decision for himself and his career and we were actually caught out by it. Considering our obvious weakness in CM I figured we would have nothing to lose by giving him a run instead of Giggs and Jones. I'd take him back in a flash if he was available.
I think that bringing back Paul Scholes rather than playing him was the final straw for Pogba.
Good post. His decision to move has been proved correct really from his career's POV. He did whats best for him. With our insistence on a 2 man CM with Rooney dropping deep, I dont think we could have given much gametime last season either.
Couldn't agree more.We missed out on a brilliant midfielder there for free.
Some people who are talking about how he had to prove himself and apply himself first seem to be missing the point. No one's saying that he should've been a consistent first team regular, or that we should've bent over and played him when he wanted game time.
What people are saying is that he should've at least been given some chances in the first team. I know it keeps getting brought up, but that Blackburn game is a perfect example. Fergie had said he needed to give Pogba game time if he wanted him to stay, but a winger and right back were picked in central midfield ahead of him. We didn't have to play him constantly; just some game time for a player who clearly had the talent might have been enough to convince him to stay.
What people are saying is that he should've at least been given some chances in the first team. I know it keeps getting brought up, but that Blackburn game is a perfect example. Fergie had said he needed to give Pogba game time if he wanted him to stay, but a winger and right back were picked in central midfield ahead of him. We didn't have to play him constantly; just some game time for a player who clearly had the talent might have been enough to convince him to stay.
We won the league.
He did well for Juve.
It worked out well for both of us.
He did well for Juve.
It worked out well for both of us.
That completely misses the point though. We won the league, but in the long term we could do with a quality midfielder. We had one right in front of us for the future but let him slip through our fingers.
What kind of why logic is this? Are you suggesting that Manchester United wouldn't have won the league if they kept Pogba?
It's like "my girlfriend dumped me and quickly found a new boyfriend but the other day I found a tenner on the sidewalk. It worked out well for both of us".
Whose to say he would have developed in the same way?
Perhaps he wouldn't have adapted as well to the league. It's certainly different than the Italian League. Perhaps we would have given him games and he would have left anyway?
Who knows. You're arguing about the unknown.
The leagues might have differences but if you've got undoubted quality as he seems to have then he'd have developed very well here anyway. The latter could have happened, but I'd have much rather seen him being given game time with the possibility of him sticking around as opposed to him not getting any chances at all and him definitely leaving.
Maybe Paul Pogba would have raised an army, staged a coup and disbanded the Premier League altogether. Your logic is lacking severely.
What?
How would keeping a midfielder whose currently better than every other midfielder we have bar Carrick have reversed the large gap between us and City?Maybe we didn't keep Pogba, as a result we sign Fabregas and look massively strong.
It worked out well for both of us. I'm not sure if Pogba was the answer and Ferguson felt the same. Maybe we'd have won the Champions League if Pogba stayed, maybe we'd have finished third. Either way things worked out well and acting like
a) Pogba is a cnut
or
b) Ferguson was massively wrong to let him go seems pretty silly to be honest. It's all good for both parties.
It's not like Fergie wanted to let him go though. He'd have kept him if Pogba had wanted to stay, which suggests that he obviously still saw something in him. The fact that he's proven to be a fantastic player at Juventus shows that.
What?
How did adding Schevchenko to Chelsea's team make them worse? Who knows how Pogba's play would have effected us. Simply saying he's a better player so we'd have done as well is ridiculous IMO.
No one's saying that. What we're saying is that he clearly looks like he had the potential to become a world class player and has started to show that potential at Juventus. While still here, he should've been given at least a little more game time to try and show that. It's nothing about doing as well; it's about keeping a player who could've been the solution to the teams midfield problems.
By your logic we shouldn't worry about keeping any young talents in case they don't do well, and by your logic we shouldn't bother trying to sign world class players in case they don't do well.
no it isn't. Your pathological need to spin everything to be pro-United is bizarre. Which party is to blame? I don't know, I didn't really follow the saga closely. But you're lying to yourself if you think that losing him for practically nothing was good for Manchester United.By my logic if we lose Carrick tomorrow and win the league I'd still be happy with how things went.
I'm not saying in the future we won't regret it, but as of now, we're in a fine position with a great squad, some great players in CM anyway and looking to sign more. Those people who look at Pogba and get wound up confuse me, who cares really as long as we continue to do so well.
Some means more than one. Who are the other great players in your midfield?
We've got one really good player in CM at the moment and one or two may develop into being really good central midfielders. Pogba is already a very good midfielder and looks like he has the potential to be a world class one. No one's getting wound up, we're merely debating whether we should've done more to keep him and whether we'd take him back or not. Your logic of "he might not have done well here" is really bizarre and strange.
Cleverley, Anderson, Giggs, Jones
Or did we win the league last year with only one great midfielder and our wingers playing shite as well.
Edit: I'm not saying that these are better than Pogba. Or even that they'll ever be fantastic players. But they're damn far away from the incompetent idiots they're portrayed as every day on here. They've all won a lot throughout their careers and will probably win a lot more. Pogba is a good player but I've seen Jones play CM against Madrid and have fantastic performances. I've seen Giggs pick out a pass for RVP in the FA Cup that Pogba can only dream of. Cleverley has taken part in some of the best perfomances in the last few years. Pogba? Who cares.
Edit #2: I remember a few years ago there was a thread on here asking who you'd get rid of from our squad if you got the chance. I remember numerous posters picking Carrick or Evans. Two of our best players last year. Opinions are very fickle in football and change easily. I'm not so sure of Pogba being the player he's hyped as yet and I'm not sure Cleverley and Anderson are done either.
Right, I forgot about every single one of them. They are all great. But let's not talk about that. I'm more interested in exploring your logic.
What about that redhead from Titanic? She bought a ticket to America and she made it to America so it worked out well for her, right?
What if I totaled my car and lost my job but I met a cute girl at the unemployment office, did it all work out well for me?
What if I missed the bus and had to run to work in the rain and ended up soaking wet but on time. Did it all work out?
What if I gave my neighbor a winning lottery ticket that resulted in them getting millions and moving away to a custom built mansion. But I didn't have to hear their dog barking anymore so it worked out well for me, right?
If you can equate Man United winning the league with a dog stopping barking yes. In all those situations you're comparing one vastly superior option with the other. In my analogy I'm saying that both sides of the coin have done equally well and both can say they haven't been adversely effected to much by the other side.
I'd say if you met a cute girl who thought you were cute back then it could end up a result for the whole of the caf.
HOW ARE YOU NOT GETTING THIS?
The point is that they aren't related! If it was a choice between winning the league and having Pogba then sure, you take the league. But they aren't mutually exclusive!
The point is that they aren't related! If it was a choice between winning the league and having Pogba then sure, you take the league. But they aren't mutually exclusive!
You have to be joking...
Why is that a joke?
We won the league without him. Pogba is definitely a good player but whose to say he would have complimented Carrick well and we would have got the same level of performances from our #16? Who is to say that after playing well in the first 20 games of the season then announcing he's leaving anyway and him being hastily dropped couldn't have adversely effected us.
It's a big variable. We'll never know.
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