Would you take Pogba back?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Meltdown alert.
People criticized Pogba for thinking he was too good for our reserves. He was right. He was way too good. In fact, since he's been at Juve he's shown he's better than all our midfielders, bar Carrick.
On current form and now that we've seen him play every week, he'd absolutely stroll into our first team.
On current form and now that we've seen him play every week, he'd absolutely stroll into our first team.
Uhm no not yet...
But this my genuine feeling about the Pogba situation.
I still can't believe that one of the most exciting midfield talents in the game, was in playing in our own youth and wasn't deemed good enough for first team football. I hate it to see him in a Juventus shirt, and Anderson in a United one, it pains me.
2 days to go for that right? I'l keep a note to stay away from the caf
I understand where you're coming from but I see things differently. Its already been done to death though so I'l let it be.
He was always the natural replacement for Paul Scholes in terms of passing.
Exactly
At the time i didn't know how good Pogba really was, but someone at United should have known and he should have been given his chances in our midfield. Whatever reasons Fergie may have had not to play him. It is clear Pogba has proven him wrong and Juventus did one of the best deals in years giving him what he requested.
That Fergie was useless, wasn't he? Only lost the league twice in past 7 years, once on goal difference and once by a single point, and the season we lost it on goal difference was the season he couldn't give Pogba enough chances to make him stay, because it was so bloody tight. The player who began to break through at Juventus last year was another year older, and he would have got his chances here too had he chose to stay.
It's also clear that Juventus are the dominant force in Serie A; it's not that hard to be outstanding for a team that dominates.
It's hard to stand out in a midfield of world class players, yet he does. He looks every bit as good as Pirlo and Vidal and he keeps marchisio out of the team.
The lad is special. I'm not having a go at SAF for not caving into his demands, I mean, Fergie has gotten rid of better players than that, for less. But make no mistake, our loss is well and truly Juve's gain.
I was addressing the guy who got promoted by buying special packs of Coco Pops, mate.
Yeah, okay but my point still stands.Fergie was brilliant, best we ever had, best we may ever have, but he wasn't perfect. Midfield situation and Pogba situation proves that.
Not because he is the best manager we ever had, that everything he did was perfect, he also made mistakes, clearly !
That Fergie won the title so many years with our midfield, proves what an exceptional manager he was. It doesn't prove however that our midfield isn't as bad as everyone thinks it is and is actually secretly really one of the best midfields that ever graced the earth...
Fergie was exceptional, however if he would have sorted that midfield, he might have won more than he did and he would surely have delivered more exciting football and perhaps also beter european results.
He's going to be a truly brilliant player but we can't enjoy his game as much as we would have had he not taken a slight stop in his career at Manchester. The discussion is always going to come back to that Blackburn game.
Unbelievable this is still rumbling on. Let it go.
The thing that people miss about that Blackburn game was that there were a number of players who were missing for attitude/disciplinary issues. Sir Alex was successful because he demanded a certain standard from his players and most sensible people who watched Pogba play in the reserves that year would say that he let himself down, as well as not looking ready during his opportunities in the League Cup..
but hey, lets slag off our greatest ever manager because one player got away. Let's face it, maybe playing Pogba in that one game would have got us a result, but going into a title run with him as first choice in a midfield two would have likely been a disaster. It was Scholes returning in inspired form that saw us manage to take City to the last 5 minutes of the season.
but hey, lets slag off our greatest ever manager because one player got away. Let's face it, maybe playing Pogba in that one game would have got us a result, but going into a title run with him as first choice in a midfield two would have likely been a disaster. It was Scholes returning in inspired form that saw us manage to take City to the last 5 minutes of the season.
Not saying that the Pogba situation couldn't have been handled better, of course it could have been, otherwise he would still be here. You are discounting two things though.
1) Mino Raiola - Even if he had stayed, he wouldn't really have stayed for long. He would have gone to PSG, Monaco or Real within 2-3 seasons. At best we could have leveraged a transfer fee. He won't be staying for long at Juventus either. That's how the fatman works.
2) The title race was really really tight. Ferguson knew how special a talent Pogba was, he kept referring to this in his press conferences that how he considered him to be a part of the first team squad. He probably could have given him a bit more gametime, but I am not convinced that he would have stayed even then.
Football isn't easy and your post fails to mention that Pogba was below average for the reserves in 2011/2012. I keep up with the reserves and the first team - and I can safely say that Pogba looked out of depth when playing for the reserves. And that's not to say that he isn't talented because he clearly is, but he played with nonchalance and came off as an arrogant footballer who thought he was going to walk into the team easy. I remember him scoring "screamers", but that was about it. Re Blackburn game (open question): how could we start him over experienced players? Add to that the fact he wasn't in good form? Limits have to be set and if Fergie bowed down to Pogba's demands, then that would have reflected badly on the club.
Pogba is talented, but all he needed was patience. For instance, Cleverley was average in the second half of last season. There was a massive chance for Pogba. I don't know how or why people make such ridiculous claims when they clearly haven't watched the reserves. Finally, Pogba will become a top, top midfielder. He's already displaced Marchisio at Juventus IMO and it's only taken him a season and a couple of games. Pogba wasn't let go because he lacked talent or anything silly of that sort, so this Fergie made a mistake nonsense is invalid, but he was the one who decided to leave because he was way too arrogant and wasn't helped at all by his agent...
To some degree, but when you have a player of his quality available when you're skint for midfielders and you start a right-back in central midfield ahead of him... well, it's easy to see where he thought he'd been slighted. Ferguson could've handled him much, much better and we've missed out on a fantastic player because of it.
Given choice of Herrera, Fellaini or Pogba in CM, I would probably have to take Pogba if I could choose one.
Why can't people see that SAF had to make a stand for the future. If SAF had given in to his demands now, what was stopping all the other future 'promising' players doing the same? Pogba could have set a dangerous precedence for the club.
Plus it was probably just fate. When we got the lad there was big controversy surrounding it all about how we pinched him etc. Maybe this guy was just never meant to be our player
Plus it was probably just fate. When we got the lad there was big controversy surrounding it all about how we pinched him etc. Maybe this guy was just never meant to be our player
Can't we comment on his performances without coming back to the same discussions that have been done to death ? The SAF treatment of him, his behavior, the infamous Blackburn match .... Can't we put all of that behind when talking about him ?
So, do people think SAF treated him fairly? Specially in the blackburn game?
The Pogba situation was a complete cock up but he has a bad agent. He's a dick and was saying a few days ago about Pogba being worth 200million. That's the sad part.
Our indecision probably cost the club in excess of 30+ million - simply because we did not show confidence in him. It's only not a mistake if it don't come back and bite you in the ass. We're still in the same situation we were in, if not worse and Juve and Pogba aren't doing too bad. If they decided to sell him tomorrow, they'd make a fortune.....
Now Sir Alex had his reasons and that's fine but it's a reminder to everyone not to ignore our youth. If you are good enough, you're old enough.
Our indecision probably cost the club in excess of 30+ million - simply because we did not show confidence in him. It's only not a mistake if it don't come back and bite you in the ass. We're still in the same situation we were in, if not worse and Juve and Pogba aren't doing too bad. If they decided to sell him tomorrow, they'd make a fortune.....
Now Sir Alex had his reasons and that's fine but it's a reminder to everyone not to ignore our youth. If you are good enough, you're old enough.
Do we need to go through this every time he has a good game?
Pogba has won, people who said the only way after Manchester United is down and expecting him to fail have been shown up... Heis flourishing for a great club, more than holding his own among their top midfielders and looks to have made a magnificent decision to leave us.
I bet he feels well smug and has every right to. What a smart decision it was.
I bet he feels well smug and has every right to. What a smart decision it was.
I know thread should be locked
Thing with Pogba is had SAF used him frequently in 2012 and let's say Pogba explodes on the scene with great performances, he still had that contract situation and his dick agent would have wanted even higher wages for his client. Pogba would have had zero incentive for loyalty even if SAF had used him.
And no doubt had the above occurred a few sugar daddy clubs would be in for him so it's possible that Pogba would have walked over to City, or Chelsea, or be at Real or PSG today. Those clubs would have really turned his head (and his agent's cock) with insane wage offers.
And no doubt had the above occurred a few sugar daddy clubs would be in for him so it's possible that Pogba would have walked over to City, or Chelsea, or be at Real or PSG today. Those clubs would have really turned his head (and his agent's cock) with insane wage offers.
Erm, what future? Who came along in the next 12 months of Sir Alex's tenure that would've abused that precedent? And is it really abuse if the player is that good?
As far as the club's future, Sir Alex certainly didn't mind Moyes inheriting turmoil he created to try and get one over on Rooney/Stretford for his personal vendetta when he knew he was leaving.
This is omarlogic.
A player wants to leave because he's not playing for the team. Solution: Don't play him at all, because if you play him and he has great performances, he'll leave anyway cause other teams will offer more money/
Do you not doubt his agent would have not pushed his client to bigger wage offers if he had played and established himself at United?
Or are you just being a prat to argue over anything?
Best player in U20.
Capped from France.
Also, a mate of mine (Juve fan) told me that Juve is considering a big increase on his wage (it'll jump from 1m to 4m).
The way people portray this situation can really rile this up. United put themselves in this situation if you ask me. They knew when his contract was up and surely it is only common sense for a player wanting to leave if he is getting little love and game time especially if the player knows and feels he is better than playing for the reserves/youth.
Pogba knew he could play at the top level. Believed in himself and as a result got a move to Juve where he has got his opportunity.
United should of bit the bullet in this situation and admit they fecked up and paid the wages he was demanding but made sure he was worth the money they put into his wages by playing him. If i were in his position id be demanding more money to force a way out or force a way to be played. No point in sitting there with so much belief in yourself and your talent and still being paid a wage you feel doesnt match up to your quality.
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On a side note i think if he continues to play he could become a sort of Yay Toure esq player. He's quite tall no? if he bulks out he could boss it there. Will be interesting to see his development over his career and how much we should kick ourselves
If he would have played that good, he would have deserved bigger wages. And we would have won the title (if he really would have played that good).
It doesn't make sense to not play a player (who wants to leave cause he's not playing) because he'll play so good that other teams will offer him more money and then he'll leave for them. The point is that he'll certainly leave if you don't give the chance.
By your definition, we should not play Nani this season. He hasn't signed yet a new contract and we all know how good he could be. So, if we play him, we risk the possibility of him playing so good that teams like Paris, Monaco or Madrid will offer him more wages than us and he'll leave next season. Also, I think that we should bench De Gea cause he is an excellent keeper and Barca will come next season for us. If we don't play him, they won't come so we'll continue to have him. But he can probably leave cause we are not giving him chances. Arghhh, my head hurts from this vicious cycle.
I'm not advocating that's why SAF didn't play him, nor a reason to not use a player. Pogba still had a contract situation. Even if he played I don't think he signs a new deal with the club. It would have pushed his price up further IMO.
It's hypothetical, no need to take it so seriously.
It's hypothetical, no need to take it so seriously.
Letting him go will probably rank as one of Fergie's biggest mistakes - unbelievable we couldn't get him games in our midfield. Playing in the middle for France tonight in a gigantic game and looks so easily the part...
I agree, I'm also watching the match, unfortunately SAF made a huge mistake, no excuses.
Rinse. Repeat. Yawn.
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