Would you be satisfied if we only won the league?

londonredmaniac said:
I think number of games played to get to an overall outcome is part of it...though I see what you're getting at.
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I think people generally define the 'best team' as the one with the 'best players'

Therefore Barcelona will always be a better team than Chelsea regardless of the fact that we have a better record in our head to heads over the past 14 years ( P12 W4 D5 L3)

I would find it hard to dispute the notion that Barca are better though :p
 
londonredmaniac said:
I'd always say the league is the best indicator of who the best team in the country is.
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It's definitely the best, in my opinion, but it's not the only one.

What do you think would have been be the predominant reply a couple of months ago had you made a poll asking people to vote for the best French team? Without certainties, I'm guessing it would be PSG. Do you agree? And I think this would be true for the last 18 months or so.

A team that not only aren't champions (and haven't been for 19 years) but that wasn't leading the league at that time.

My point is that in the context of the last few posts the majority seems to be adamant that the best team always wins the league when in almost every other discussion they use a much wider and open-minded approach.
 
We have big tasks ahead to win more than the Premier League. I am desperate for us to win our 20th Title, rightfully snatching it off City. Whether or not we can manage a cup win too, is another story, but I would be absolutely satisfied with just League Title Number 20.
 
Arruda said:
Yes, because playing everyone removes every random element of the game.

Would be curious to see if you would be so adamant of that had City won QPR with a couple of gifted penalties or playing against their reserves because of some random cup final. It looked strange enough with QPR hoofing the ball from kick-off after 2-2, something I never saw in a football pitch (I'd expect them at least to make a couple of back-passes and receive some pressure before doing that).

And that's from someone who cherished the moment, just for the small sadistic pleasure of witnessing a meltdown here.

I maintain that unless you have a strict policy of objectiveness that the winner of each individual game was the best team in that game (because they scored more), it's a ridiculous logic leap to just accept that the best team always win the league. Probably more often than not that is the case, and it certainly has a lot less variance than cup competitions, but when they're won by small margins, there's obviously room for debate.
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Yes theres a random element but it gets balanced out over a season. If city had won the league through dodgy pens I would be gutted but it wouldnt mean that they werent the best team in the league, the league isnt won on one game its won over 38. As for you're last point the best team doesnt always win an individual game for whatever reason be it luck or bad referring decisions but over the course of a season it evens out, its all swings and roundabouts, we got decisions one week and city got some other weeks.
 
It tends to even out, you seem to believe it perfectly evens out as a fact.

Let's just agree to disagree.

I'll be on the hunt for you though, and ready to strike when I see you say something that defies your own logic. You've just bought an enemy.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
I think people generally define the 'best team' as the one with the 'best players'

Therefore Barcelona will always be a better team than Chelsea regardless of the fact that we have a better record in our head to heads over the past 14 years ( P12 W4 D5 L3)

I would find it hard to dispute the notion that Barca are better though :p
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I personally define the best team as the team who plays best together not the sum of its parts. For instance if Messi ssigned for say Wigan in the morning they might have the best player in the league but as far as the best team they'd be still not even top four. I think many regard this seasons united team as poor because besides Rooney/RVP and a few others we've a lot of players who dont necessarily grap headlines or were big signings but are great team players.
 
38 is not a huge number so there is still some scope for luck to favour some teams over others, though obviously considerably less scope than there is in one game. If a league season had 100 games it would be much closer to being fully evened out.
 
Adebesi said:
38 is not a huge number so there is still some scope for luck to favour some teams over others, though obviously considerably less scope than there is in one game. If a league season had 100 games it would be much closer to being fully evened out.
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It's like an opinion poll you might see in the news, the larger the sample the smaller the margin of error.
 
Keltoi said:
I dont think it does perfectly but you make your own luck in football and to suggest the best team doesnt win the league is the ultimate sign of bitterness when your own team hasnt won.
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I don't automatically suggest that. My whole point is that I look at the 2010/2011 league table and have little to no doubts that United was the best team. I look at the table as it is now and have little to no doubts United has been the best team so far. I look at last season's table and don't have a fecking clue.

Maybe I'm just dumb. But I refuse to see everything in black and white.
 
Arruda said:
I don't automatically suggest that. My whole point is that I look at the 2010/2011 league table and have little to no doubts that United was the best team. I look at the table as it is now and have little to no doubts United has been the best team so far. I look at last season's table and don't have a fecking clue.

Maybe I'm just dumb. But I refuse to see everything in black and white.
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I look at it and think it was extremely fecking close but city just edged it, they were the better team albeit by a small majority.
 
I agree Keltoi. Quite apart from the league table being the ultimate judge of who the best team was in a season, looking at City's home record, and our head to heads, it strikes me as quite clear City were the best team last season.
 
Agree with the head-to-head aspect, in fact in Portugal it's the first tie-breaking criteria, like in the CL.

I was disregarding that info and assuming all I knew about last season was just what's in the final table.

I agree City was probably the better team, if anything, knowing they overcame an 8 point deficit shows some perseverance which I value highly.
 
Arruda said:
It's definitely the best, in my opinion, but it's not the only one.

What do you think would have been be the predominant reply a couple of months ago had you made a poll asking people to vote for the best French team? Without certainties, I'm guessing it would be PSG. Do you agree? And I think this would be true for the last 18 months or so.

A team that not only aren't champions (and haven't been for 19 years) but that wasn't leading the league at that time.

My point is that in the context of the last few posts the majority seems to be adamant that the best team always wins the league when in almost every other discussion they use a much wider and open-minded approach.
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I agree with what you're saying certainly. Personally (and I wouldn't have been alone in saying it), in reference to the French team question I'd have said Lyon. Folk have short memories and PSG went through some real bad times in the not too distant past.

I accept you point of course
 
ItsEssexRob said:
I think people generally define the 'best team' as the one with the 'best players'

Therefore Barcelona will always be a better team than Chelsea regardless of the fact that we have a better record in our head to heads over the past 14 years ( P12 W4 D5 L3)

I would find it hard to dispute the notion that Barca are better though :p
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Quite. There are a number of different ways of looking at. It's probably about a range of indicators rather than just one specific competition/factor.
 
Adebesi said:
I agree Keltoi. Quite apart from the league table being the ultimate judge of who the best team was in a season, looking at City's home record, and our head to heads, it strikes me as quite clear City were the best team last season.
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Hard to disagree. They were for me.
 
So a month on from the last post and we're out of the champions league, the league is in the bag with a 15 point lead while we've a replay in the cup vs Chelsea.

Would people still be satisfied if at this stage we only went on to win the league?
 
I wouldn't to be totally honest. The CL was a big ask anyway but I think the double is imperative and the minimum we should be aiming for this season - so long since we won one.
 
nah...after last season I would be thrilled with only the league. Two more than scum....and getting it back from city...that is more than enough and what I really wanted. If we won the cup to, well...that would be amazing, but if we don't it wouldn't spoil the sweet taste of getting that title back.

as for the CL, I always thought it was such a big outside chance this season since the team was still developing, so I wasn't as affected by us going out....disappointed because of how..yes, but not otherwise...
 
To be honest I'd be a little disappointed. It would feel like a bit of an anti climax considering the league is already won, and we have 2 months to go in the season. I'd want to keep a bit of excitement until the end, which we can only have if we get to the final of the fa cup.
 
We've only got a 20-25% chance of winning the cup, I don't understand how anyone could be unsatisfied with "just" winning the league...
 
Yes and no. You can't take anything for granted but we've progressed this far in the Fa cup and will want to stop City winning it. The leagues the bread and butter though. Lets not forget, we've a lot of youth in the squad so the more trophies the better.
 
antohan said:
This. Everyone else would be over the moon with "just" the league.
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Depends on circumstances. Nine points ahead in the league with 3 games to go, in the finals of the CL and the FA cup - anyone who'd be happy with the league in that situation is crazy. But a sensible fan might well settle for the league at the start of the season.
 
Still yes. But still yes i would love the FA cup too. Our biggest game left is that replay
 
Yes.

Do we need to be reminded what we won last season? No, then the PL is the all important one, always was,always will be. Champions League is a huge bonus but can depend on a huge amount of luck too
 
I would be absolutely delighted with just the league.I remember the 70s and 80s when we were nowhere near winning the title and ending that 26 year old drought was phenomenal.Every title since has been just as good.
 
May I remind that after watching City winning the league and Chelsea taking European crown last season with us winning nothing, yes I would very much satisfied with just the league this season.
 
Won't bother me much if we crash out of the Cup as long as we wrap up the League. It's all that really matters this season.
 
Will I be satisfied if we win the league? yes. Am I be disappointed we did not win the CL? yes. Will I be happy if we in the FA Cup? Yes. Disappointed if we don't? yes

Pretty obvious answers though.
 
Our early exit from the CL and home draw against Chelsea really gave us a good chance at the FA Cup this season. It would be disappointing not to take advantage, but any season you win the league is a terrific season. I just hope we do it in some style with the 9 matches remaining rather than look like it's such a chore as we did against Reading. Just finish the season on a high, whether it's by winning the cup or playing good stuff.
 
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