It really is quite easy to name 20-30 footballers greater than Luiz Ronaldo, and justify each one.
Don't go on about the WC, otherwise Klose deserves to be mentioned in these discussions.
Why CR7 Should be Talked About as the GOAT
- Thread starter GM K
- Start date
Don't go on about the WC, otherwise Klose deserves to be mentioned in these discussions.
That's some biased bs right there. How exactly did R9 peaked "far higher" than CR7 ?
Even considering R9 as one of the top 10 is arguable. If he didnt had that injury and assuming he would have the same consistency level it would be hard to argue against him tho.
The fact is that CR7 output was far greater than R9 ever achieved.
Well said, people who include Luiz Ronaldo in these discussions are seriously over-rating him based on nothing but nostalgia.
I asked you to provide examples of R9 performances which are better than anything R7 has shown over the years. And you failed. Those games you mentioned are not games better than any R7 game. They show that R9 had a different and very exciting set of skills compared to R7 but that's not something debatable. What is debatable is whether R9 at his peak was more likely to win a game for his team than peak R7. Your view is firmly pro R9 whereas mine is more reserved and open to discussion.
For some reason some people are so biased they can't even separate facts from nostalgia.
No argue that R9 could be one the greatest to ever play the game if he didn't had that injury and if he could maintain the same consistency over his career.
What people forget is that the legends of the game aren't made of "ifs" but facts and the fact is that CR7 output in the game is far greater than R9 ever was.
I can even accept the Ronaldo vs Messi and Messi vs Ronaldo old argument. It's boring and doesn't make that much sense to me since both bring different things to the table with pretty much the same results. But atleast you are comparing 2 players with similiar outputs in the game for a decade now. Comparing CR7 with R9 is just ridiculous if you actually take in consideration the facts instead of nostalgia or what R9 could be if it wasn't for his injury
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R9 for all his talent never won the Champions League. CR7 has been the standout player and top scorer in four CL wins, scoring more CL goals in one single season (17) than R9 managed in his entire career (16).
R9 might have had a higher peak, but we're talking about the GOAT and not the BOAT. A big factor in determining greatness is longevity, in my opinion. CR7 is arguably the benchmark in that respect.
R9 might have had a higher peak, but we're talking about the GOAT and not the BOAT. A big factor in determining greatness is longevity, in my opinion. CR7 is arguably the benchmark in that respect.
You are talking about the player who did things on the pitch that was unbelievable. He was dangerous when picking the ball in his half, not to mention closer to the goal. A mix of skill, speed and physicality that has never been seen before. To simply put, what he produced at his young age until injuries took away some of his lightning speed was best anyone has produced at that age since Pele.
Of course, I will mention World Cup as it's the biggest stage. Comparing that to Klose, or suggesting that because of that Klose should be in these discussions, is laughable.
These acronyms are getting crazier day-by-day! What the feck is a BOAT?
I'm now an experienced poster so I won't comment the posts of some groupies 
I thought I was the only one. Never heard that before.
I think its some kind of water vehicle. I could be wrong
Best Of All Time.
To me Best Of All Time is the highest peak level achieved, whereas Greatest Of All Time to a larger extent accounts for the sum of a player's entire career. I might be alone in looking at it like that, though.
I've always thought R9 has the potential to challenge Pele and Maradona as GOAT during his early years. However, for larger part of his career (post-injury), he wasn't even among the top 3 or 4 forwards in his era, let alone best player at his time, or even among top 10 GOAT. If people rate peak/skills/potential over consistency/longevity/achievements, they could as well have George Best, or even Duncan Edwards (those with insane level of individual talents but didn't happen to achieve much or last long in their career) etc among GOAT rather than Pele or someone like Di Stefano (those with insane record of having greatest impact on actually winning most matches/titles). For me, the term "greatest" should embodied individual achievements and overall impact to the game, rather than just peaks and glimpse of highest individual talents.
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Still placing the following above CR7, unequivocally:
Pele
Maradona
Beckenbauer
Cryuff
Di Stefano
Players a little bit greater, or a little bit less greater, than Ronaldo (same tier ish, this list isn't exhaustive)
Messi
Xavi
Charlton, Best
Platini
Baresi
Maldini
etc...
I don't think Ronaldo has done enough to be called greater than the first 5 names on that list. And that's not an insult.
Pele
Maradona
Beckenbauer
Cryuff
Di Stefano
Players a little bit greater, or a little bit less greater, than Ronaldo (same tier ish, this list isn't exhaustive)
Messi
Xavi
Charlton, Best
Platini
Baresi
Maldini
etc...
I don't think Ronaldo has done enough to be called greater than the first 5 names on that list. And that's not an insult.
CR7 is in my top7
far away from top 3 tbh.
far away from top 3 tbh.
You are of course entitled to your opinion, let's just agree to disagree.
We're talking about the Greatest of All Time, not "could have been", regardless of what he did before his injury, the fact is that, over his career, he doesn't even belong in the top 20-30 players.
I'm not sure what you're basing your opinion on (haven't read through the thread). So I'm not sure on what I'm disagreeing with you on, and I can't agree to disagree unfortunately.
Only a major peak doesn't warrant the 'Best' tag, don't you think? Anyway, it is all a way of seeing your favourite players on a list so those plagued by circumstances beyond their control (injuries,etc) find themselves on other lists.
I understand your preference of placing Beckenbauer and Cruyff so high, as one could argue their overall impact/influence to the game is far beyond their actual achievements on the pitch, or even far beyond Pele and Maradona could have done. But I don't understand why you place Messi and Ronaldo on the same tier as Xavi, Best, Baresi and Maldini etc... Both Messi and Ronaldo had won/going to win 5 Ballon D'or, and both also finished 4 times as 1st runners-up, (thats 9 times among best 2 players in the world each) none of the player you've list could dream of achieving anywhere near half as good. Their individual records/team success are simply so far better than any of the players you've mentioned there and its not even funny to compare anymore, as they should be at least in same tier of someone like Di Stefano, if not higher.
Are you even remotely aware of Pele's influence and just how huge a sports star he was worldwide when he was playing?. Even the Americans at the time knew he was a superstar and they didnt give a shit about football back then.
Well that's not exactly what I meant, and not the point I am trying to say. Of course Pele's influence was unrival at that time, but the way both Beckenbauer/Cruyff re-invented a new position/new way of playing football (liberal, free-role, total football) was also unmatched and has lasting impact to the game.
By impact I'm assuming he means the work Cruyff did both during and after his playing days for Barcelona, Ajax and Dutch football in general. Barcelona's recent success is largely down to him. Beckenbauer also had a similar impact on Bayern and Germany. Pelé was a great player and an icon, but has spent his retirement doing Viagra commercials.
That's quite reasonable and you make some valid points, although it's all matter of how you judge/see the player. Ronaldo even after his injury was IMO world-class striker and certainly one of the best forwards of his era.
Also, his legacy and status were sealed with World Cup 2002.
No, you and I are talking about him being in the top 20-30 players, not about the GOAT. I reacted only to your statement that he isn't even in that category which is really too much when you look at what kind of player he was. Nevermind, I'll stop here as this lost some sense to me when you mentioned Klose to downplay his achievements.
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Asking men to score even when the chips are down - that's his legacy right there.
Career peak 2-3 years its definitely
Original Ronaldo >>>>>> Conceited Ronaldo
Its also quite reasonable to not have Conceited Ronaldo in an all time top ten
Original Ronaldo >>>>>> Conceited Ronaldo
Its also quite reasonable to not have Conceited Ronaldo in an all time top ten
The lack of knowledge + hate equals some great posts in this tread. Love it
That is why they are ranked so high. Those players revolutionized the game. Pele and Maradona are in that category too for their legendary accomplishments with their national teams and elsewhere.
I simply don't value the Ballon D'Or in these kinds of discussions.
For me, you get in that second tier if you've displayed world class brilliance at the club/national level for an extended perioG of time. Peak of greatness can be equalled by a less violent, yet more consistent level as well. Makes room for the likes of Ronaldo who was a force of nature for a few years, and C Ronaldo who has been less brilliant (according to most observers), but has been more consistent for years more.
Xavi is the best midfielder I've ever personally watched. Baresi and Maldini mastered the art of defending at the club and national level. We all know the brilliance that Best brought to the table. I don't think Messi and Ronaldo have significantly exceeded such displays.
To me, Maldini is still the gold standard on longevity and Messi and CRonaldo still have a couple years to go before they match Maldini's longevity.
Peak Messi destroyed teams for a full calendar year -2012, even you guys wont deny that that year he was far better than anything CR7 has EVER done.
Greatest of all time definitely needs to have longevity as one of the attributes. Else guys like Bojan Krkic could have a claim to be GOAT based on peak performances he had during 2008-2010
I would have thought Sir Stanley Mathews would be the gold standard for longevity
That's a fair shout actually
I disagree that those 5 players you name are greater than Cristiano, or even Messi.
Better to destroy Bayern, Atleti and Juve when it really matters than to destroy crap teams.
Remind me of Barca tropheys in 2012. I shall remind you that Messi failed vs 10 man Chelsea and didn't help Barca retain the CL and La Liga title.
Have to admit Maldini is one of my all time favourite players.
I know, because you're looking at number of goals scored, or something.