Join them with our own money, its not the same thing.
feck this shit, some of you are just silly, honestly.
We have definitely lost our soul in a way
- Thread starter RedStarUnited
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feck this shit, some of you are just silly, honestly.
Yea and based on how they progressed I won't argue with them being moved on, I was just questioning your faith in future talents getting the required game time. ...
No we haven't.
92 will never happen again but this 10 out/10 in shite has to stop. We Will never win the league if this continous and we'll never win it with 11 fecking foreigners. Please have a core of british players and atleast two bloody homegrown ones. The only way to success is continuity and players brought up to love United.
People say that selling our youngsters who have been part of the club as young kids means we are losing our soul.
You don't have to have Longsight tattooed on your arm to be a great Utd player and a repeat of the Class of 92 is as rare as hens teeth.
Yes, you need players from the youth academy, but if LVG doesn't see them living up to their potential, then being a good player isn't enough. If the next generation are talented enough they will be in the team.
It's not new for us to splash the cash, and we shouldn't apologise for it.
Didn't Matt Busby break the record for signing Denis Law.?
Bryan Robson, Rio F, Nistelrooy and Roy Keane have all been record signings.
We aren't losing our soul. It's in the fibre of OT. In the turf and in the stands.
Those of us who have attended for years may see changes but we have to adapt with the times.
Our legends read like a hall of fame, with great gaffers and memorable matches.
United status as one of the worlds elite clubs, whose fan base stretches from Salford Quays to Singapore, from Trafford Park to Tokyo We will never lose our soul.
You don't have to have Longsight tattooed on your arm to be a great Utd player and a repeat of the Class of 92 is as rare as hens teeth.
Yes, you need players from the youth academy, but if LVG doesn't see them living up to their potential, then being a good player isn't enough. If the next generation are talented enough they will be in the team.
It's not new for us to splash the cash, and we shouldn't apologise for it.
Didn't Matt Busby break the record for signing Denis Law.?
Bryan Robson, Rio F, Nistelrooy and Roy Keane have all been record signings.
We aren't losing our soul. It's in the fibre of OT. In the turf and in the stands.
Those of us who have attended for years may see changes but we have to adapt with the times.
Our legends read like a hall of fame, with great gaffers and memorable matches.
United status as one of the worlds elite clubs, whose fan base stretches from Salford Quays to Singapore, from Trafford Park to Tokyo We will never lose our soul.
While I agree especially about homegrown players (because British/English players might just be shit/overrated/not worth the money and so on), we're not going to end up with 11 'fecking foreigners' and how many English players City had who were key players when they won the league last time? Joe Hart? Milner maybe? Then Chelsea last year? Terry and Cahil?
It's a no win situation for the club.
Don't sign players and promote youth- No quality in the squad blah blah....
Sign players and sell youth players - we have lost our soul.
I can understand the sentiment of OP, but we haven't lost the soul, Football in its entirety has lost it. I can't think of any club which hasn't.
Don't sign players and promote youth- No quality in the squad blah blah....
Sign players and sell youth players - we have lost our soul.
I can understand the sentiment of OP, but we haven't lost the soul, Football in its entirety has lost it. I can't think of any club which hasn't.
I've been a United supporter throughout my life appreciating everything with the club and how it has been run.
Though I must admit, deep down, that I've always wanted us to be a bit more like Real Madrid spending craploads of British Pound Sterling on star players. I love to see that happening.
Though I must admit, deep down, that I've always wanted us to be a bit more like Real Madrid spending craploads of British Pound Sterling on star players. I love to see that happening.
Most well supported club in the world has a lot of shit fans shocker!
There will be plenty of united fans who want youth to get a chance, but there will be far more who just want the club to win stuff. I'm not having a go at united fans or the caf, but we've a massive fan base, plenty won't really care sbout stuff like youth and community. They just care about the big star players.
EDIT: ultimately if the club gives youth a chance it hasn't lost its soul, but you have to fight fire with fire. You can't compete with multi million pound squads with a bunch of half decent youth products.
Ironically the best player to recently come out of our youth system (Pogba) left, despite most fans wanting him to get a chance! Maybe Fergie lost his soul*.
*tongue in cheek i do not mean this.
The soul of a football club is the supporters. So United have not lost their soul.
But Edwards Jr. fecked us over proper. We are where we are. Owners are cnuts anyways. They have ripped the hearts of the supporters but they cannot take away our souls.
But being a supporter that grew up in the times of Best Law and Charlton, I feel the character of the club has been drastically changed. I feel United stopped being a 'local' club the moment we got players from outside the Home Countries and Ireland.
I'm not against foreigners...the club has changed...and we have so many foreign supporters.
When I tell my wife we have bought so an so...she will ask. So are we still an English club? Well I remember us not thinking we were an 'English' club even then...because of the history...but that is another debate.
But Edwards Jr. fecked us over proper. We are where we are. Owners are cnuts anyways. They have ripped the hearts of the supporters but they cannot take away our souls.
But being a supporter that grew up in the times of Best Law and Charlton, I feel the character of the club has been drastically changed. I feel United stopped being a 'local' club the moment we got players from outside the Home Countries and Ireland.
I'm not against foreigners...the club has changed...and we have so many foreign supporters.
When I tell my wife we have bought so an so...she will ask. So are we still an English club? Well I remember us not thinking we were an 'English' club even then...because of the history...but that is another debate.
To be fair, it’s not as if we’ve just suddenly gone from a club who never spent to being one that suddenly spends massively. In the early stages of the 2000’s, we invested heavily in top players like Veron, Ferdinand and Van Nistelrooy – none of whom we’d have managed to obtain without outspending our rivals at that time.
Even in recent years when we’ve sometimes invested in younger players like De Gea, Jones, Smalling, Zaha and others, we’ve still spent a fair bit of money to buy players from smaller clubs with the promise of more money and potential success, which is what pretty much all top clubs do.
It’s been decades since we produced a top class youth product of our own, and even the ones in recent years who were quite good like Fletcher, Brown etc were mostly just squad players, with periods where they were regular starters.
Even in recent years when we’ve sometimes invested in younger players like De Gea, Jones, Smalling, Zaha and others, we’ve still spent a fair bit of money to buy players from smaller clubs with the promise of more money and potential success, which is what pretty much all top clubs do.
It’s been decades since we produced a top class youth product of our own, and even the ones in recent years who were quite good like Fletcher, Brown etc were mostly just squad players, with periods where they were regular starters.
Well that's just a bit sad. If that's what you've always truly wanted why not just support Real Madrid?
It's a lot to do with our tradition and history that we managed to get Schweinstiger. I'd opt for signings like that over superstar ones like Di Maria every day of the week. In order for that to happen we should avoid going the City and Chelsea route of just throwing as much shit at the wall and seeing what eventually sticks.
We invested heavily in the 80:s but still we couldn't push for the league bar maybe 84. Should have had more Whitesides in the team:-)
Replying a racist (and factually wrong) post with an another racist post.
A club with a British core - at the moment - will struggle to get into top 4. In Rafa Benitez's own words, that is a facht.
More German and Spanish players, please.
Sure go with a an all british team and enjoy battling for relegation.
Don't know why you are telling that guy he should have supported Madrid just because he wanted United to sign great players.
What about when we were breaking British transfer records for the likes of Roy Keane or buying Veron and Ferdinand for £30m which probably isn't too far off the Di Maria fee considering how the market price has inflated over the past 12 years
This.
Van gaal is a stubborn man full of pride. If he can win leagues with players like mcnair, wilson, gribbin & fosu mensah in an around the 1st team ; then trust me he will.
Why was he so emphatic aboutjoinung united? It's because like bayern & barcelona; united is the team that resembles english football and having the chance to not only manage but to assist in managing the right way will 'stimulate' his ego.
He cant however manage the youth team without having a substantial quality in the first team & him letting go of RVP shows that when the time is right; any player be that tom dick or harry will have to go.
I dont care how stupid it sounds, but i believe that if van gaal is given complete control; not only will we reach the hights that our club is capable of, but England will too.
I mean Spain & Germany's world cup wins were completely down to the management of barcelona & bayern. Both who owe a tremendous deal down to van gaal. We can all hope.
Why was he so emphatic aboutjoinung united? It's because like bayern & barcelona; united is the team that resembles english football and having the chance to not only manage but to assist in managing the right way will 'stimulate' his ego.
He cant however manage the youth team without having a substantial quality in the first team & him letting go of RVP shows that when the time is right; any player be that tom dick or harry will have to go.
I dont care how stupid it sounds, but i believe that if van gaal is given complete control; not only will we reach the hights that our club is capable of, but England will too.
I mean Spain & Germany's world cup wins were completely down to the management of barcelona & bayern. Both who owe a tremendous deal down to van gaal. We can all hope.
If you think you need a British core to be successful then you are very wrong. Where was cities British core when they won their two previous titles
I'd like to see us continue to invest in the squad (we should never return to the penny pinching we saw near the end of Fergies time in charge) but homegrown players are important still.
Saying that, quality is still the most important. We'd be foolish to not sign a centre-back because of McNair and Blackett for example.
Saying that, quality is still the most important. We'd be foolish to not sign a centre-back because of McNair and Blackett for example.
What makes the Schweinsteiger and Di Maria signings particularly different? Both ultimately saw us obtaining a top talent who plays for a major European side.
Where was chelseas last year ?
Fact is the quality of english players is deteriorating at a rapid pace and if u want to win things you'll have to look at players from foreign competitions simple as that.
This whole discussion about giving youth chances is so pointless because the quality of these young players is just not up to scratch anymore, atleast not when it concerns british academy products. If you want a young player you have to pick him away from other clubs and they are almost always foreigners (like Pogba, like a Januzaj etc).
Because if deep down what makes you really happy is watching your team spend crap loads on star players why not support the team most likely to regularly satisfy that desire? In the very same post of mine you quoted I highlighted the Schweinstiger signing as one that gave me most pleasure. Does he not equate to a great player?
Don't worry, in a few years our squad will look like this:
Johnstone
Varela Jones Mensah Shaw
Goss
Pearson Pereira
Januzaj Wilson Memphis
Johnstone
Varela Jones Mensah Shaw
Goss
Pearson Pereira
Januzaj Wilson Memphis
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Where were our foreign core 93-2013? I'm not a fecking rasist but I do believe that homegrown players is very important to a club and I think that of a british core aswell. I'm all for having a few top notch foreigners but not more than half the team. I can live with not winning otherwise i wouldnt support this club grewing up in the 70s. I just want us to have some homegrowns and a few brits
Well six of them (Jones, Shaw, Pearson, Wilson, Januzaj and Memphis) have good chances of being here in a few years. If four of them achieve that (and beins starters for the first team), we would have done incredibly well.Don't worry, in a few years our squad will look like this:
Johnstone
Varela Jones Mensah Shaw
Goss
Pearson Peirera
Januzaj Wilson Memphis
Time to support another club, I guess. In the newt few years (in fact, as long as England/UK doesn't start producing players that aren't useless) you are not going to get it.
Just look at the British player at the moment. Lock them that are at Liverpool, Chelsea, City, Arsenal (and well Bale cause Madrid isn't going to sell him) cause we are not going to get them. Choose six of them and the team would need Messi, Neymar and Ronaldo in order to get the fourth place in the table.
Schweinstiger made it quite clear the only team he would leave his boyhood club for was United. Di Maria went to whoever offered the biggest pay packet. Everyone is motivated by different things but its normal to appreciate some more than others.
Aye. It's a tough one, if we're honest. In an ideal world you could have/do both - bring through youngsters and supplement the team with 1 or world class players - & in the process, continue being competitive.
But with the money in the game today, with new found riches for sugar daddy clubs, it's even more important to "stay ahead" of the pack. There's no room for error.
The age old conundrum - would you be willing to accept a mid table or at best, competing for top 4 United, if it means bringing through youth versus spending money to compete at the top end....I still don't know the answer, personally.
We did do that in the 70s and 80s and won sweet FA. We broke every transfer record possible. Someone could tie their own laces and we would buy them. Just have to look at all the strikers we bought from the likes of Forrest/Spurs/Ipswich/Arsenal and so on. We have always spent big. However, when it came to being a PLC and non-UK players became the vogue things changed.
Is it British youth that's being talked about or academy youth? Because we have Jones smalling Shaw Wilson McNair Blackett. We signed most of them before 21. They are young. Right now we need good players proven at the highest level. Class of 92 happened about 10 years after saf took over. Lvg cannot afford to not buy players like schneiderlin and schweini and promote Pearson and rothwell and weir and all for instance. They obviously will be long term answers and will come good only in,say, 2-3 years of top level experience. What is important for united now is that we have to get back to winning ways and then we will slowly get back to our academy graduates promotion. I wouldn't expect Lvg or any other manager to do anything else other than buying experienced or talented players at the current point of time
This is not just about Youth players which i agree with it as well. That we've lost more of that balance we had under SAF. (Though it was declining anyway.)
But bunch of our fans have actually gone and become bit like Real Madrid fans where dick waving about big names joining for them has become as important as winning trophies if not more.
It's bizarre to me. Couldn't care less if we brought back Cleverley instead of Schweinsteiger as long as we are winning trophies.
But bunch of our fans have actually gone and become bit like Real Madrid fans where dick waving about big names joining for them has become as important as winning trophies if not more.
It's bizarre to me. Couldn't care less if we brought back Cleverley instead of Schweinsteiger as long as we are winning trophies.
Thank you both for pointing out that there was football played at Old Trafford prior to 1992.
The majority of the club's players going back into the 80's were brought in from other teams. Even the squads from the 90's that people are looking at as an example of how we should be going about things contained more players who played elsewhere before coming here than what was brought through the youth ranks.
I swear, it just seems like some people here need some sort of doom and gloom to moan about. We've turned the corner from a season prior to last where we finished outside the top 4 for the first time in 20 some-odd years. We brought in the management and talent we needed to climb back into the top 4 last year and we've done nothing but strengthen our chances of getting back to the top of the league and to compete in Europe in the coming season. For all that effort we get blessed with threads crying about how we had to purchase players to get out of our slump (something we've almost always done before) and that we don't have another phenom youth group to lead us.
There's no reason for kids that can't even remember football prior to 1995 to lament about false narratives that only exist in their heads.
Do you really think that any United fan who may have been envious that Madrid were signing the likes of Ronaldo and Benzema and us Valencia and Owen should have just went and started supporting Madrid?
If we had bought Schweinsteiger in 2010 when he was younger and a longer contract for £30-40m would you have been against it because it was a superstar signing? You can say that its because of our history and tradition that Schwein came here but I'm sure a large part was due to us having LVG as manager and the fact the Bayern were offering a contract with a lower wage compared to his previous deal. United's biggest allure right now is the money they can offer these days so I think you are mistaken if you think players come here for history and tradition
First game 85, started support them in around 79 /80. It's not about that, its about that i want continuity and it wont fecking hurt the club if there are a few homegrowns/brits in the team. Sign players that can play here on the longterm please
Exactly
1994 Cup winning team for example - great team
Schmeichel Parker Irwin Bruce Pallister Ince Keane Kanchelskis Giggs Hughes Cantona
The one in bold is the only player we didn't buy
We had something like 14 British players in first team matches last year. The vast majority of the squad had been here on the books for more than 2 seasons prior. We didn't make wholesale changes to the entire squad over the last summer and this but, we have had to go out and strengthen where we couldn't do that from within. Keeping the same squad together just for the sake of it wasn't getting the job done, not even close.
None of us are going to change the evolution of the sport and honestly, I don't see the point in lamenting the fact that times change and our recent situation required drastic measures.
I even disagree with the drastic part that I wrote. We made the right decisions that we needed to get back into the top 4.
Basically it's 2 different schools of thought clashing, we're never going to understand where the other side is coming from, it'll go around in circles... redcafe.