It was always going to be hard to replicate what Fergie did with the youth system so buying in was the only option but when your spending £200m you expect to see some sort of return on the investment in the form of trophies.
We have definitely lost our soul in a way
- Thread starter RedStarUnited
- Start date
You'll never win anything with kids.
Once Welbeck left, the club died. I mean it pretty much ceased to exist anymore. Seriousiy, this bollox again? Some of you are very sensitive. Our squad is paper thin and full of cracks, nothing got to do with 'selling our soul'.
If we have good enough talents we should develop them.We won't have Januzaj,Pereira,Wilson,... churning out of the academy every year.
It's a slippery slope anyway once you start going down that argument. Only to get back to the top and then to remain at the top etc..
Depay and Martial are the exact sort of signings Ferguson would have made. Young, skilful, pacey attackers.
Martial would have been one we went after and missed out on though. His price is huge. And I'm delighted we got him for a change, instead of missing out like hazard and Lucas.
Exactly. The Martial transfer reminds me of the Ronaldo one, barring the excessive fee.
I agree, big clubs need instant success and have no time to wait for a young player to develop over a couple of seasons. The trend is to loan young players out and let them improve elsewhere. The sugar daddys can take the largest part of the blame for this trend. No United are not a sugar daddy club in my opinion as I feel the opposite is happening at United. Some clubs have people pumping cash in, with us , ah well...
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Don't know what our 'soul' is supposed to be.
But I am excited by this flurry of transfer activity.
But I am excited by this flurry of transfer activity.
50 year record isn't it ? Or something like it ?
Edit -
78 Years.
True. Could add Ronaldinho to that list as well.
Ronaldo cost £18m or something (12 years ago), with inflation, I don't think it's too far off. It does seem a bit overpriced though.
Damn.
Ppl want youth development but also winning instantly. What do you really want?
You can have both Ken but there are key positions where we are short. The youth will get plenty of games now so we can afford to still buy 2/3 players.
This stuff shouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things...but it does make you feel sad.
Post Fergie was always gonna be hard.
I think both are doable if managed properly.
Loans feel like sales nowadays, more often than not a loanee doesn't progress, ends up being sold or going back on loan until they eventually leave... even when they do well they get moved on a la Nani.
We dont have a fecking clue what we are trying to build here.
but we grew a pair of balls
I understand the fact that in having a squad with players from the youth academy and or young talents would make it hard for United to compete with the likes of the other competitors initially but the long term gain could be substantial. Let's say United bring up 2 youth prospects to the first team as of now along with 1 or 2 English signings and then add too that a few signings in key positions that offer a bit more experience and quality and United would have a foundation to grow and have long term benefits. I understand a majority of the fans want immediate success now and want world class signings but I feel building an English core along with academy players and some key signings could allow United to still make a competitive team. Each season promoting 1 or 2 youth players would not be that difficult to do not to mention the fact that fans are quicker to protect there "own" players . It seems difficult to do but it is very possible look at the likes of Ajax, Barcelona , Lyon , Sporting all have done it albeit some with more success then others. England has a good crop of talent coming through and United could very well afford to get them along with other young talent when available and if for thr right price. Having those types of young players along with experience from players liked Rooney, schweinsteiger, carrick just as an example could work I feel and all these players would grow together over the years Once again it's not everyone's taste if you will but it could work.
Could use a paragraph or 2 mate?
So have United. Twice. Problem is that it takes about 40 years for those once in a generation academy moments to occur.
Huh?
I don't mean that every season a new Johan Cruyff or a new Lionel Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo has to come through. Just look at Ajax now they each season bring up 1 player from there academy as do Sporting that's how you Intigrate youth into the team not all will be world beaters but there will be some world class players that will come through and there will be some in they tier right under world class. Let me give you an example I will use my own club as an example but I can use others if you want as well I'm just using Sporting because they are my team . In the 2012/2013 season Bruma, Eric dier, and Tiago Ilori were brought up. In the 2013/2014 season Carlos Mane and William Carvalho were promoted . In the 2014/2015 season Joao Mario and Tobias figuereido were brought up and in the current 2015/2016 season Gelson Martins has been promoted . Do you see a trend ? It's very possible to do if taken the right steps of adding 1 or 2 youth players from the academy along with 1 or 2 young talents signed add to that some experience quality player and you have yourself a foundation to grow . As I said you van just wake up the next day and begin its a process but it's one that United in the long run would reep thr benefits from. Once again easier said then done .
It's always nice to see youth players come through but I don't think we're in the position to take risks with youth players. A good example is Adnan Januzaj. I'm sure Januzaj will become a key player for us, but at this moment in time, he's way too inconsistent to be a key player right now. As it is right now we're hoping Rooney unexpectedly rediscovers his 2009 form and pinning our hopes on 2 young players to deliver. If this were 2008, Januzaj would get plenty of games because we were solid in every position and had quality to cover if one player was having an off day. That's not the case today. Evans and Rafael got their chance when we had prime Rio, Vidic and Evra. Welbeck got his chance when we had at least 3 good striking options. The expectations for this club mean we can't take risks with youth players especially post-Fergie where the manager is on the chopping block.
I also think the Class of 92 has given unrealistic expectations of youth players and if we play them they'll for sure come good. Scholes, Giggs, Beckham and Gary Neville were exceptional talents and we haven't produced talent of that caliber often. Pique and possibly Pogba and Januzaj are the only ones we've produced since 92 who have or can reach that level. We've brought through plenty of players over the years and some have gone on to have good Premier League players but it's blatantly obvious they weren't good enough for us.
I also think the Class of 92 has given unrealistic expectations of youth players and if we play them they'll for sure come good. Scholes, Giggs, Beckham and Gary Neville were exceptional talents and we haven't produced talent of that caliber often. Pique and possibly Pogba and Januzaj are the only ones we've produced since 92 who have or can reach that level. We've brought through plenty of players over the years and some have gone on to have good Premier League players but it's blatantly obvious they weren't good enough for us.
To be fair this was my next tweet:
It's a shame we can't wait for the this batch of Januzaj,Pereira,..etc to mature and for the next batch (Fosu-Mensah,Gribbin,Tuanzebe,...) to improve the numbers.
Anyway brace yourself, a series of articles about how United has lost our soul will pop up in the media after the Liverpool game...
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Developing home grown talent is hard - no doubt about it. Even Barca, with their amazing academy, bring in players like Suarez to fill gaps.
But there is a VAST world of difference between City signing marquee players at their peak, i.e., TRUE mercenaries, and United signing players like VDS or Vidic or Rooney - not homegrown, but fairly established players who are here for the long haul.
I think the worst case is obviously not making any signings, but then after that if we become a club that continually signs marquee players in their late 20s, using and abusing them for a season or two before getting rid. Let City or Real Madrid do that.
But there is a VAST world of difference between City signing marquee players at their peak, i.e., TRUE mercenaries, and United signing players like VDS or Vidic or Rooney - not homegrown, but fairly established players who are here for the long haul.
I think the worst case is obviously not making any signings, but then after that if we become a club that continually signs marquee players in their late 20s, using and abusing them for a season or two before getting rid. Let City or Real Madrid do that.
Spot on with these three points. I do love to see youth on the pitch but it's tough competing in the EPL let alone the top 4-6 if not investing big. EPL clubs from 1-20 have shown that you have to spend in order to survive and compete. Before yesterday, I just read somewhere that the bottom half team have a larger net spend than United this season. I am glad to see the amount of investment happening in the youth at United unlike club like Chelsea. I am sure we shall see Januzaj, Wilson and Pereira along with McNair in our squads in the future.
Also, LVG has to be very careful as he does not have time on his side. Unfortunately in today's football world even our management is not going to be patience the way it used to be in Fergie era. We need to be patient and stop acting like the media has been. Still, this has been the best transfer we have had for a long time and I am sure we can only go up from here. We might just see one more player coming in for us today.
I am glad we did not miss out on Martial the way we missed on Hazard and Lucas just because we were not willing to pay. Let's not go to that argument and be happy we have got an exciting talent that the French have been raving about even though it seems we paid a lot for him.
They will pop up because journalists are lazy and trawl these forums for ideas, rumours and subject matter to repeat as if they came up with it.
Would love troll the media by coming up with something completely false but believable and watch them run with it....
The problem with United is what we are a global brand now. Everything we do is tied up with sponsors and results... We must establish ourselves as a power in England once again before we can afford returning the young players policy.
As some people stated above Martial and Depay are players that SAF would have signed also. I think the issue is that some of our promising youngsters are not getting enough playing time currently. Hopefully during the season we will find our stride and this will enable more playing time for them.
Many people are furious over Januzaj leaving but Pereira might get more chances because of that.
As some people stated above Martial and Depay are players that SAF would have signed also. I think the issue is that some of our promising youngsters are not getting enough playing time currently. Hopefully during the season we will find our stride and this will enable more playing time for them.
Many people are furious over Januzaj leaving but Pereira might get more chances because of that.
Oh not this shit again. Get with the times people, you want to be successful in this era you have to buy top players, simple. People act like SAF didnt break transfer records to bring in the players he needed. Also other than the class of 92 the club have not produced any British talent worthy of note. The club is about nurturing young players in the academy or buying them. We have been far more successful recently with the latter (Ronaldo, de Gea, Pogba) and theres no shame in that.
We are going through a major revamp because guess what? We fecking need it desperately.
We are going through a major revamp because guess what? We fecking need it desperately.
When we were all stable under Fergie and rarely engaged in the dark arts of muppetry, I looked across at the other field and thought "hmmmm, that's a great cow. That's definitely better than my cow". Now we've hopped the fence and have gone full muppet, I have to admit that the cow which enticed us over here, is actually a bit mangy looking.
I remember reading a stat during the height of our powers, when we went to 3 CL finals in 4 years, that United had the most stable squad in Europe. It was an understated tactic of the Fergie era. I am now yearning for such stability. The last two years have been utter pandemonium, and although we desperately needed a clear out, it has been handled shambolically and without class. My forlorn hope is that after this season, we heed the lessons of the past and try and maintain a stable squad with just one or two adjustments each season.
We've gone full muppet this summer. Never go full muppet. It's not so much that we've lost our soul 'in a way', it's more than we've taken it around the back of Carrington and shot it squarely between the eyes, and then bludgeoned it to a pulp with a tire wrench, and spat on it for good measure.
I remember reading a stat during the height of our powers, when we went to 3 CL finals in 4 years, that United had the most stable squad in Europe. It was an understated tactic of the Fergie era. I am now yearning for such stability. The last two years have been utter pandemonium, and although we desperately needed a clear out, it has been handled shambolically and without class. My forlorn hope is that after this season, we heed the lessons of the past and try and maintain a stable squad with just one or two adjustments each season.
We've gone full muppet this summer. Never go full muppet. It's not so much that we've lost our soul 'in a way', it's more than we've taken it around the back of Carrington and shot it squarely between the eyes, and then bludgeoned it to a pulp with a tire wrench, and spat on it for good measure.
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Shambolically?
Did we get our soul back with martial since we did similar stuff with Rooney 10 years ago.
Yes, autocorrect (on phone). Edited, thanks.
I don't know about our soul but we did lost our mind. We're now left with a goalkeeper whose pissed off with how we handled things. No cover at all on RW as our best option for that role is on loan at Dortmund and god knows if we got a 3rd choice option upfront as Hernandez had been sold and maybe Wilson had been loaned
Fellani.