I thought we were done with this nonsense last year when people were up in arms at the sale of "wonderkid" Danny Welbeck.
We have definitely lost our soul in a way
- Thread starter RedStarUnited
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If they're good enough, they're old enough. If not, age is irrelevant.
Sorry, that's a bit irrelevant, but frankly I've seen plenty of people clamouring for Januzaj, Pereira and Wilson to either get more playing time here or get a good PL loan to come back and compete next year.
Sorry, that's a bit irrelevant, but frankly I've seen plenty of people clamouring for Januzaj, Pereira and Wilson to either get more playing time here or get a good PL loan to come back and compete next year.
Fair enough i misinterpreted this part of your post ''Over the next few years we'll see if it's bearing fruit.'' as you saying they will start producing quality players for their first team.
Missed the ''if''.
Lost soul, gained a brain.
We've lost our soul long ago.The new generation of fans just don't appreciate the value of homegrown players.That's the new era of football brings you when spending 150 mil per summer feel like nothing because "that's not our money".
That's true.
Perhaps older guys like me still resent spending big because I still think we can win the league with our youth team mixed with a few experienced players like we did in the 90s...but LvG kinda tried that last year with McNair, Blackett, Wilson etc, and it didn't really work out.
Fact is, the class of '92 were a phenomenal group of players and we'd be damned lucky to get a youth squad with anywhere near that kind of talent, so for now we need to spend.
I think the solution is to strive towards having the best youth academy in the world, bar none. Would take time and money, but I'd rather do it that way.
Something that gets lost easily in these discussions.
People keep going back to the class of 92 and how Fergie showed faith in youth rather than buying players, well he also happened to have a once in a lifetime quality of youngsters at his disposal, obviously he gets all the credit for acknowledging that but you can't just simply promote youth if the academy is not up to the mark. Pogba aside, what have we had in the last decade or so who deserved to be played in the first team?
And especially Van Gaal, who has a tremendous history of promoting youth. The guy gave first chances to the likes of Xavi and Iniesta ffs, but if the academy gives him dross he will have to look outside, simple as. Lost the soul my ass, melodramatic bullshitters, nothing more.
It all depends on which United people want, a winning one or a not winning one...
People complained when City and Chelsea were buying a lot of players quickly to catch up with United and the European elite. It was easy to complain about those 2, but now faced with a similar challenge, its mostly accepted as necessary.
They are still utilizing 2 youths players well..
Rafinha - 15 starts/ 29 Appearance overall
Bartra - 16 starts/ 20 Appearances overall
It's really not off for people posting in the transfer forum to be asking for transfers is it?
'They aren't good enough' 'They need to be at the Ronaldo/Messi level of performance' etc...
Well how do you think they 'get gud'? They need to be played, they need to have the manager behind them, confident in them, they need to be trusted. We see a young talent and the usual caftards drool over them not even stopping to think about the fact that the clubs/managers they want us to prise them away from. ... and the fact that they did those things, to help the players reach those levels.
I can imagine it being quite easy to become disillusioned as a youngster at today's United...
It seems like we can't afford to help or youngster's improve, maybe being at United (or similar) nowadays can actually stunt them. ...
So yes Op I hear ya
Well how do you think they 'get gud'? They need to be played, they need to have the manager behind them, confident in them, they need to be trusted. We see a young talent and the usual caftards drool over them not even stopping to think about the fact that the clubs/managers they want us to prise them away from. ... and the fact that they did those things, to help the players reach those levels.
I can imagine it being quite easy to become disillusioned as a youngster at today's United...
It seems like we can't afford to help or youngster's improve, maybe being at United (or similar) nowadays can actually stunt them. ...
So yes Op I hear ya
LVG still deserves a lot of credit for playing them anyway, because Fergie in his last years or most other managers in the EPL would've just played their other experienced players in different positions as emergency cover. McNair and Blackett probably wouldn't have played at all, we'd have seen Carrick move to central defence first.
Agreed. If any manager is going to give youth a chance it's Van Gaal. He's got an amazing track record of developing players into stars. He often talks about it being his ambition at the club, but they've got to be good enough though and I think that MK Dons game was a shock and an eye-opener for him. It's great giving youth a chance, but they've got to take it.
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As I see it, as the EPL has progressed, it has become more competitive at or near the top. Teams near the bottom are able to give those higher up a run for their money. It's therefore harder for the top teams to justify taking a risk on a youth player 'bedding in' to the side through regular first team performances. They get their chance and if they fluff it, it's generally game over. I'm sure that LvG wants to give youth a chance, but he knows that he has certain targets to achieve (including challenging on all fronts) so where's his incentive to take a risk on an unproven prospect when he knows that if he fails his job is on the line?
The best thing that we can do for our youth is to get them out on loan and playing competitive football in good leagues.
The best thing that we can do for our youth is to get them out on loan and playing competitive football in good leagues.
Not from where I'm sitting. I just generally stay away from the threads where the more inane muppets go nuts, so I have no issue with that.
I do find it a bit disturbing, however, when people display such glee at seeing certain players leave. To me it's common courtesy to say "good luck" rather than "thank God he's gone" when a youth product is sold.
Has nothing to do with the soul of the club - more so the soul of the supporters.
Given that SAF, Gill and Charlton are still on the board, do they agree with this new direction? Anyone know?
On a general note, I'd also say that these discussions always become overly polarized. It's not a question of sticking to anachronistic methods versus going full Perez - or, at least, it shouldn't be.
You see some fans these days who seemingly think that "progressive" thinking equals having zero patience, buying every big name in sight, etc. - and that a reluctance to accepting this "model" amounts to being a sentimental twat.
You see some fans these days who seemingly think that "progressive" thinking equals having zero patience, buying every big name in sight, etc. - and that a reluctance to accepting this "model" amounts to being a sentimental twat.
I would love for us to sign Reus if Di Maria is going. I have no soul I guess
So having a soul means you have 3 wingers (Depay, Januzaj, Young)...no thanks
So having a soul means you have 3 wingers (Depay, Januzaj, Young)...no thanks
Scholes was a goal scorer from the minute he played for the first team. It took him a while to become a top class midfielder because it took a while to play him there.
Almost a year after we sold GOAT Welbeck, the nonsense threads start again.
We are souless, deal with it!
We are souless, deal with it!
I think it's admirable that some of us still aspire to see local talent come through the ranks, or failing that, see us nurture talent...
after a glamorous dynasty under a single manager long lasted over two decades and then jumped off the cliff within one single year caused by the moyes disaster, we really need to win out a league title asap before we can go back to our normal business. otherwise we can probably turn ourselves into a long lasting declining trend.
just watch out how liverpool have fallen out for almost 30 years and still see no light inside the tunnel. winning back the premier league in the next coming years shall be the priority. youth development come second.
even if this meant that we ought to going out to buy for it, so be it.
just watch out how liverpool have fallen out for almost 30 years and still see no light inside the tunnel. winning back the premier league in the next coming years shall be the priority. youth development come second.
even if this meant that we ought to going out to buy for it, so be it.
So is the solution to not buy top players like Reus, Schweinsteigher and Otamendi so we can play McNair and Januzaj? Good luck keeping that Champions league place and trying to win titles with that strategy. Januzaj is only 20 years old...how often do players of that age keep a first team place for a club as big as ours...it's only really the elite level of youngsters like Rooney and Ronaldo who have done that.
Oh not again, maybe we lost our soul when we broke the record transfer fee for Denis Law back in 1962
It's as simple as this. Class of 92 was a very fortunate period for United and those types of World class players dont all make the first team at the same time to completely change a team.
Either you spend and constantly have talent coming into the team or you wait and fall behind.
The league position by itself is less important to me (United have given me more than enough glory years) than the repercussions of missing a given target for the club as a whole. On that basis I reluctantly accept the way we seem to be going about things wrt the youth. I like new signings as much as the next guy too...
But let's be straight, I'd prefer to see us nurture talent and give them chances... ideally we'd do that and remain competitive. This moment of transition is temporary so for all we know we could be back to doing that and challenging for titles soon. It's just the attitude of some caftards that irks... we don't really know what the club's long term goals are.
Football changed long ago. Its a results business now more than ever. People need to decide if they want to see Utd challenging and winning trophies or not and its as simple as that.
EDIT. Also if the youth players are good enough, they will come through and get games. Thats the same even at the sugar daddy clubs. If we had the next Messi and Ronaldo in the youth squad, they would get games so if they are good enough, they will come through.
EDIT. Also if the youth players are good enough, they will come through and get games. Thats the same even at the sugar daddy clubs. If we had the next Messi and Ronaldo in the youth squad, they would get games so if they are good enough, they will come through.
Rather have a soul keeping around deadwood in an unbalanced squad? Get out.
So. We either keep the deadwood around and wait who knows how long for decent players to come through the academy whilst becoming a mid table club.
Or go out and buy the players we actually need and get rid of everyone we don't. Become competitive again. Whilst making improvements no doubt to the academy and getting in some young players in the coming years.
I'm glad of the route we've taken.
So. We either keep the deadwood around and wait who knows how long for decent players to come through the academy whilst becoming a mid table club.
Or go out and buy the players we actually need and get rid of everyone we don't. Become competitive again. Whilst making improvements no doubt to the academy and getting in some young players in the coming years.
I'm glad of the route we've taken.
Januzaj, Blackett, McNair and Wilson have all got games over the last couple of years and are part of the squad. Welbeck was a first teamer, Ravel Morison would probably be an established first teamer for us right now if he wasn't a gangsta wannabe fool.
If the players are deemed good enough, they will get games regardless of what stars we have in the squad.
If the players are deemed good enough, they will get games regardless of what stars we have in the squad.
2 things; are you saying that the only way to win trophies is to buy as opposed to nurturing talent? Can you not do both?
And no its not a given that the talented players will break into the team, where's Pogba? You could say he should have waited, but why? Disillusioned, someone in his ear reminding him how long it's been since the last talent broke through...
I'd much rather see United sign the best players they can and compete with the likes of Madrid, Bayern and Barcelona in the champions league rather than spending years behind the likes of Chelsea and competing to get into the top 4 just so people can see the likes of McNair, Januzaj and Blackett play lots of games.
The way people are saying we've lost our soul is so strange considering in the past ten years we've brought through the likes of Cleverly, Evans and Welbeck who have shown that they aren't going to be good enough without having the best manager of all time in charge. If a youth player is good enough to be a vital member of the first team then I'm pretty sure Van Gaal is one of the best managers to have to take advantage of it (considering his record at Ajax, Barcelona and Bayern). People are just moaning for no reason now
I'm being honest I'm thinking about all the supposed talents that have stunted since they came here...
And who is saying to keep deadwood??
We wanted to keep pogba remember, he was the one that wanted to go just as he was breaking into the squad.
If the sugar daddy clubs didn't exist, it would be much easier to play more youth players and still challenge but they do exist and its hard enough challenging them now as it is, nevermind if we were playing a bunch of youth players in the squad.
Also i don't really see how we are losing our soul when we are buying players with out OWN MONEY, money we have earnt though good club running and success. I'd much rather us be buying players than the money going in Glazers pockets.
Why bring Pogba into this considering his leaving was due to the previous regime and this thread makes it sound like we've lost our soul because of the two bad years. If Pogba is going to be included then we must have lost this soul a long time ago
Yes you need to read my posts without assuming I'm going along with any specific narrative.... it has been an issue for some time.
And to Retro, it's all good stating we wanted him. How much weight do you think that carried in his decision process? Juve wanted to play him...
It's all good blaming it on the rich clubs but then saying if you can't beat em join em...
It's all good blaming it on the rich clubs but then saying if you can't beat em join em...
I kinda think the lack of chances Pogba got may have been down to Fergie knowing he was leaving soon and he probably wasn't prepared to develop youngsters if it could potentially harm his title chances when it wouldn't even benefit him for the long term.
Makes you wonder if LVG will have a similar thinking process if he is here for only 3 years.
These threads suck away my own soul...
We're in no position to be handing out games to young chancers on a whim. If they're ready, they'll break into the first team squad. See Januzaj.
Plus, we're playing more young players now than we did during much of the latter part of Ferguson's reign. There is no new trend in play here.
We're in no position to be handing out games to young chancers on a whim. If they're ready, they'll break into the first team squad. See Januzaj.
Plus, we're playing more young players now than we did during much of the latter part of Ferguson's reign. There is no new trend in play here.
We made a mistake with him, fair enough but there have been other players coming through over recent years that i listed above. We have brought thropugh more youth players than most other big clubs in the league.