People genuinely defended that.
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
- Start date
awful
very bad or unpleasant
hyperbole
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally
It's an unfortunately easy comparison to make given both only really got the job because of their prior association with the club as well.
There's no coaching that can deal with four individual mistakes in 30 seconds. What coaching would have stopped Evertons goal?
I'm not saying this to defend Ole but so far this season its been an incredible amount of individual errors.
There doesn't seem to be enough concentration,focus or something along those lines.
Looks like a school playground gameWas watching the highlights back and saw this for the disallowed goal.
What the hell are we doing there?
Very true.
Fundamentally I just think it's a different remit to make a mediocre side competitive versus making a good side elite. As the level increases, fine margins become more and more vital - and just as Lampard was found wanting in terms of taking that next step forward, so too is Ole.
Again, I think both deserve credit for what they've achieved, but the stark reality is that neither is good enough to manage at the pinnacle of the sport - realistically this is where Chelsea and United are given the level of investment over the past few years.
Be careful with the words you use, anything that resembles P.E. will make some posters very angry.
Thanks for solidifying my argument.
If it wasn't meant sincerely: very bad or awful probably isn't the best word to describe a coaching, that got us quite a lot of wins in the last 2 years. A lot of goals and a few deep runs in tournament. Seriously don't make me take a stand for Ole now, I am not suited for it, but awful just a few levels OTT. I think, the common ground should be that the coaching is ok to alright but not close to the level of our competitors.
Varane is in there somewhere, wowWas watching the highlights back and saw this for the disallowed goal.
What the hell are we doing there?
We conceded one goal, against an Everton side who had pretty much all their important players injured. We had enough time to score few more goals. The fact that we're clinging to a 1-0 and not even able to score more goals with such attacking roster we have, proves how shit our coaching is.
I mean coming into matches unprepared, being caught off guard on free kicks, and just making boneheaded decisions can be entirely on the coaches for not drilling it into the players. Obviously we could just have a group of rotten players that don't care but seems like it'd be easier (and better for the club) if it's just the coaches.
Didn't I?
It feels like you are trying to find an explanation for what happens on the pitch, am I right? If my summary wasn't right, maybe you can explain it in a different way?
The question is can Ole win you the league or UCL. Because of in terms of talent there isn't much difference in the levels between UTD & City, Pool and Chelsea.
From the present evidence, the answer is NO. If he can't then we are wasting time. Lets get a proven manager who has won.
Most of the players are in their prime, we need to be looking to win now.
From the present evidence, the answer is NO. If he can't then we are wasting time. Lets get a proven manager who has won.
Most of the players are in their prime, we need to be looking to win now.
The journos must be itching to ask further about what the actual vision is here for this team. The cliches are getting picked apart. What is the actual plan?
Yeah I agree with you, we should be scoring more with this amount of talent
but ultimately if four players don't cock up one defensive action we win. We don't win well but it's still 3 points.
In the Everton goal for example, what coaching could be done to stop it?
Remember these are all seasoned pros. Fred knows he has to stop Gray one way or another. Shaw knows he shouldn't over cover like that etc.
Was watching the highlights back and saw this for the disallowed goal.
What the hell are we doing there?
No idea. Was madness.
We're lucky he decided to square it.
There are many times in football where results are decided by moments of mistake or brilliance which is not associated to the coach. e.g Bruno penalty miss.However they still get the heat
as coaches are evaluated by results fortunatley or unfortunatley.Performance,tactic ,formation and lineups are secondary at times.
as coaches are evaluated by results fortunatley or unfortunatley.Performance,tactic ,formation and lineups are secondary at times.
Those individual errors cost us how many goals?
That’s a coaching issue.
We might have won today indeed, doubt we would have been feeling great or confident of us repeating such kind of wins over the course of the season with how terrible we have been offensively. We defeated WHU and Villareal with the same kind of performance and look where we're now. You can simply keep on playing like this and just be content because you're barely winning 1-0 or 2-1 and just hoping for it to continue.
If we're actually good enough and coached well in the attack to utilize these attacking players, we would have scored few more goals and won the game without worrying about a single individual mistake fecking us up completely.
Yeah maybe but its also the responsibility of top level, experienced pros right?
For the disallowed goal, should McKenna have to coach a player like Varane to not rush out and leave space and an unmarked player behind him like that?
But for the Everton goal, can you explain what coaching is lacking to stop it happening?
Yes, but a top player taking care of that himself, supported by good coaching, will always be better than a top player left alone with it.
That's why a top squad without a good manager can come close to winning something, but will lose against another well drilled top squad. That is the fine margin that prevents United from really challenging for titles.
Well for example City coach their players not only to be in the right positions and to take the right actions to nullify counter attacks but also to commit tactical fouls when necessary (as multiple managers have pointed out over the years). They're doing that as a team not on the players' own initiative but because it's part of how they've been drilled to handle defensive transitions.
When I see us conceding chance after chance from counter attacks and then this goal following our own corner and two tackle attempts by Fred that failed to stop the attack, I see why City are coached that way.
I'm trying to tell you what happens on the pitch and why it happens by making a point that there is pattern of play but Ole keeps selecting the wrong players to play in this pattern of play. For example, you don't play too many non-technical players on the pitch to play quick passing against the low block, thus, the pattern of play fails as those non-technical players keep missing their passes or being slow in their passing. While the technical players who can play in the pattern of play we are coaching and setting up against the low block are on the bench.
Was watching the highlights back and saw this for the disallowed goal.
What the hell are we doing there?
Poor attempt at Getting out to spring the offside trap. Believe AWB plays them onside.
We were fortunate that Davies passed. If he had shot he probably would have scored.
This is the end of the line.
Anyone who isn’t trolling and who is genuinely making an argument that our coaching is NOT completely substandard ………….
Is a simpleton
/thread
Anyone who isn’t trolling and who is genuinely making an argument that our coaching is NOT completely substandard ………….
Is a simpleton
/thread
Was watching the highlights back and saw this for the disallowed goal.
What the hell are we doing there?
This was exactly the two Owens were talking about before The Match. Both our FBs do not know how to play as FBs. Hargreaves said before the game that if he goes that much forward under SAF he would get a right rollicking from SAF. His prime job was to defend and not be a pseudo winger. They were discussing there previous games we played where we always get sucker punched by a counter attack.
I didn't really had the feeling that Everton was actually a low block in the first half. Of course they didn't attack us gung-ho or went with an ultra high line but they were playing with an organized defense without being particularly deep. That changed in the second half when we brought on Ronaldo.
I thought, we did alright before that change, Cavani could have been been more clinical but overall it was one of the better attacking displays in a while. Especially AWB and Fred had a decent game. But this stopped once Cavani was gone and it came to a fullstop when Fred left the pitch for Pogba. I think, you theory with the non-technical players doesn't really cover all aspects of what we see. Also, if we have some technically limited players, why aren't we adjusting our plan so these weaknesses are mitigated a bit?
We don't have to debate that the players you named aren't on the same level technically as the others. But that still doesn't explain why we lost any sort of structure in the second half. We produced nothing and if it wouldn't have been for Davies stupidity, we could have lost the game. And it would have been deserved. Reducing the game to the one individual error of Fred covers only a fraction of the performance that led to todays result. The players are the most obvious ones to take the blame but at some point, the manager needs to find a way to stop these "individual errors", wouldn't you agree? His subs sealed the game today in my eyes, I know thats debatable and I am happy to do so but I am sure we would have scored eventually if we wouldn't have completely surrendered midfield.
Mata is on 160k/wk to do exactly what?
Heung-Min Son just renewed his contract for 140k/w.
Was watching the highlights back and saw this for the disallowed goal.
What the hell are we doing there?
"The usual"
I honestly think 4-4-1-1 is the solution to our problems.
Bruno still free role, Rondo up front, two wingers playing deep helping out the defense and a clever pass from deep to unleash them.
This 4-2-3-1 with Scott and Fred getting overloaded not working .
Wouldn't it be great if the two wingers were playing deep helping out the defense and the quality of Bruno, vdb, Shaw, Pogba picking them out.
Bruno still free role, Rondo up front, two wingers playing deep helping out the defense and a clever pass from deep to unleash them.
This 4-2-3-1 with Scott and Fred getting overloaded not working .
Wouldn't it be great if the two wingers were playing deep helping out the defense and the quality of Bruno, vdb, Shaw, Pogba picking them out.
Well when we have McKenna as an assistant or was always going to be this way? What in gods name is phelan doing…nothing was the answer…Rene was always a better coach
Same thing we did for the goal we conceeded. Schoolboy defending. This isn't the first time this season we've been sucked into these situations. The defensive setup just doesn't seem to be well-drilled. I gave it a pass initially but we're in October now. To do it twice in a game is criminal.Was watching the highlights back and saw this for the disallowed goal.
What the hell are we doing there?
That just makes Sons agent look like a bitch, to be honest. Matas agent should be having his door kicked down by every player in the league trying to get him/her to rep them.
How can a team produce something as per your expectation if the team have some these players who can't pass the ball in the first place? Non-technical players don't have the ability to play quick passing in effective way, and when they are forced to do it, they often give the ball away. By giving the ball away then the team can't produce but it's only playing in Everton's hand. Whether we want to call it low-block or no, it is the same point I made that Ole played too many non-technical players on the pitch to play quick passing against team who set to have less possession and use counter attack which Everton today with their 28% possession. Therefore, the pattern of play we set up today (which I explained in my first post) couldn't be executed. On the other hand, players who are more technical to play the pattern of play we set up today are on the bench.
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I suppose it's the hyperbolic title that caused so much consternation about this thread. The premise was always pretty solid, but it could have been phrased something like "Could our coaching be better" etc. At least that would likely have drawn more rational debate. It's pretty clear, when both sides stop with the hyperbole, it's so much easier to have a good debate.
And yes, it's not really my forte to talk about coaching/tactics etc. but it's obvious to anyone that we are behind top sides, on both counts.
1. bolded part: I'd have a look at other teams and how they set up to play. I mean, there are quite a lot of teams with players of lesser quality on the ball and I've heard some of them are able to play quite decent.
I've no intention of ridiculing your argument, but it in my eyes it fails completely. You seem dead on locked about the quality of a few players that prevents the rest of the team to play decent football. All while knowing that there are teams out there who manage to do play decent football with not even half of the talent of our team. Plus while knowing that as soon as we shuffle a few players around, the football gets even worse...
2. bolded part: Excuse me, but I still don't get it: so you think, we deployed a certain "pattern of play" today? Pattern of play in a sense like a reoccuring theme that happens repeatedly? And you think, we deployed it today (today the first time?) but it didn't work just because of the lack of technical players?
My first reaction would be:
a) why deploying such a thing in the first place when the players aren't right?
b) why not using players on the bench who might be better suited for that plan?
c) how is that a good description of the game today where we looked decent for an hour or so but looked terribly as soon as Ronaldo entered the pitch and finally Pogba? Did we just stop using the "pattern" you describe?
But Ignore my reaction - good chance that I misunderstood you
We have been playing badly in the last 5-6 despite winning some games. Ole and his mates thinks that magically someone will pull a rabbits out of the hat. Is he so blind to his tactics is not working? Is he hoping that Mcfred will become World class? I suggest that he drop Mcfred and play VDB and Matic. Give VDB freedom to push forward and ghost into space. I just hope Matic have enough legs to protect the back. I am sure there will be more clear cut chances that falls our way. Time to wake up Ole!!! Stop dreaming in the theater of dream.
Only showing this because I didn't realise David Brent was a fan!
He brushes his hair with his hand and I hear 'I can make that dream come true to, aka, for you'
He brushes his hair with his hand and I hear 'I can make that dream come true to, aka, for you'
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1) You have to look at other teams also don't show consistency with those players of lesser quality just like us are also playing good in some games but there is no consistency to keep it up.
2) Go back to my first post, read first then you can come back talk about it.
a & b) I gave my answers already and I told you already to read in my whole first post that Ole was wrong to play non-technical players to force them playing in the pattern of play he set up while benching players who could suit more.
c) You answered your own question: This below is your own quote and in additional, they scored after that an hour of decent game we had which change the whole mentally of the game and Benitez's tactic.
The fact you even said we looked decent in that an hour of game shows inconsistent in your argument when you also questioned that we don't have pattern of play. We can't be look decent without pattern of play.