We are an awfully coached team

Beachryan said:
I'd obviously still have Ole's version of United over Mourinho's - that was the real nadir imo.

But it could be time, memory lapse or whatever: I think LVG would get a real song out of this team. That's how bad it's gotten. I'm thinking favourably about LVG's coaching. Dear lord.
Click to expand...
To be honest I don’t think you’re wrong. His team lacked anyone to make that final pass or action which this team has in abundance they just don’t seem to know how or where to do it without leaving us wide open.
 
I would say the problems of the turnover is mostly due to both the fullbacks being up the pitch simultaneously. One long pass would cut the entire CBs off. This is exactly what happens at United.
A lot of times both FBs are forward of the player who loses possession. It's bleedin obvious that they are not going to get back in time.
If we stop pushing our two FBs willy nilly we would stop conceding these goals. Anyway we rarely score from FBs overlapping anyway. All they do is clutter the opposition area and make it more difficult for our forwards to find space.
This is strictly a coaching issue.
 
Yeaaat123 said:
How about we back Ole as the Manager, support him/get behind him, but just get rid of McKenna & Carrick etc. & replace them with a top class number 2/ trainer/tactical coach. (a la Queiroz type.?)
I think a lot of us agree Ole has brought a better feel to the club than Moyes/Van Gaal & Mourinho, plays better football (most of the time.!) & he has made some good/better signings than previous managers. Maybe he just needs that Technical coach/expert by his side for the next few years, to take us to the next level.?
Click to expand...
Sure, let's upgrade everyone but the manager with top class alternatives. Sack everyone and give Ole at least 5 more years.
 
Amir said:
I don't think it's about priorities. You don't spend the money we've spent and sign the players we've signed in order to just target top 4.

I really think that the club is lost. People there are scarred from the tenures of LVG and Mourinho. They brought in Solskjaer, saw the mood improve, saw periods of upwards trajectory and are now hoping and praying for more of it because if they let him go they have no idea who to appoint and who will offer continuancy to what we've built in recent years.
Click to expand...

Ed Woodward would never have stayed in his job as long as he did if the on field product was a priority. He was a failure by every measure when it came to the actual football and yet they gave him free reign.

The signings are about securing CL football and protecting the brand. The Glazers couldn’t care less about trophies unless it gets so bad it hurts their profit margins.
 
Beachryan said:
I'd obviously still have Ole's version of United over Mourinho's - that was the real nadir imo.

But it could be time, memory lapse or whatever: I think LVG would get a real song out of this team. That's how bad it's gotten. I'm thinking favourably about LVG's coaching. Dear lord.
Click to expand...

The problem with LVG was that he was out of touch with club football for a long time. I said even when he was appointed that pushing Giggs as an assistant manager was a recipe for disaster. Simply because LVG don't play like United played under SAF.
If he had the current setup like a director of football and got the "kind' of players LVG wanted he would have done a lot better. His teams had always a player maker and he tried to put Rooney in there. Rooney never was a player like that.
 
Said this in the matchday thread but for those wondering what good coaching does, watch how quickly City recover their defensive shape when they lose the ball in an attack. Within seconds they're all back in the right positions and pressing Liverpool to the point where they cant get out of their own half. They're not relying on one player to make a challenge.
 
11101 said:
Said this in the matchday thread but for those wondering what good coaching does, watch how quickly City recover their defensive shape when they lose the ball in an attack. Within seconds they're all back in the right positions and pressing Liverpool to the point where they cant get out of their own half. They're not relying on one player to make a challenge.
Click to expand...
What about the second best coach in the league whose team can’t string two passes together and are relying on long balls and getting dominated?
Doesn’t klopp do ‘good coaching’?
 
Zlatan 7 said:
What about the second best coach in the league whose team can’t string two passes together and are relying on long balls and getting dominated?
Doesn’t klopp do ‘good coaching’?
Click to expand...

We could get regelated and you’d still be arguing it wasn’t that bad because another manager also lost that weekend
 
Foxbatt said:
The problem with LVG was that he was out of touch with club football for a long time. I said even when he was appointed that pushing Giggs as an assistant manager was a recipe for disaster. Simply because LVG don't play like United played under SAF.
If he had the current setup like a director of football and got the "kind' of players LVG wanted he would have done a lot better. His teams had always a player maker and he tried to put Rooney in there. Rooney never was a player like that.
Click to expand...
The fundamentals of LVG and Pep style is pretty much the same but LVG is very risk averse. He doesn't want his players to take risk while Pep create various combinations in and outside of the box. Think, LVG might have done better if we had current team (in terms of quality).
Remember he was the one who got Blind and played as a CB. At that point EPL never knew anything about " playing from the back". So I don't agree that he was outdated but we were lacking the quality to implement his ideas .
 
stw2022 said:
We could get regelated and you’d still be arguing it wasn’t that bad because another manager also lost that weekend
Click to expand...
No but it’s stupid watching pep and this city team dominate and then using it to bash Ole. Why doesn’t he use klopps tactics and ‘style of play’ here to have a go at Ole instead
 
Zlatan 7 said:
What about the second best coach in the league whose team can’t string two passes together and are relying on long balls and getting dominated?
Doesn’t klopp do ‘good coaching’?
Click to expand...

By the best coach in the league. The fact it's still 0-0 says a lot about it too.
 
stw2022 said:
We could get regelated and you’d still be arguing it wasn’t that bad because another manager also lost that weekend
Click to expand...

Whataboutery is all they have got, best to put them on ignore. They aren't interested in any discussions, just to waste your time.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
What about the second best coach in the league whose team can’t string two passes together and are relying on long balls and getting dominated?
Doesn’t klopp do ‘good coaching’?
Click to expand...

Sometimes a coach gets outcoached. Difference is Klopp will go to Watford next week and dominate them. He might even change things at half time and make it an even game today. We will struggle against Leicester as we have against everybody we have played since the Leeds game.
 
bond19821982 said:
The fundamentals of LVG and Pep style is pretty much the same but LVG is very risk averse. He doesn't want his players to take risk while Pep create various combinations in and outside of the box. Think, LVG might have done better if we had current team (in terms of quality).
Remember he was the one who got Blind and played as a CB. At that point EPL never knew anything about " playing from the back". So I don't agree that he was outdated but we were lacking the quality to implement his ideas .
Click to expand...

I mean about the players available. He recruited poorly. Yes give him this team and he will get a good structure of playing.

I also don't understand why we keep fecking around in our own box when the best chance City had was a long pass from their keeper both times.
It seems that we follow the fad of playing out from the back. When Liverpool pushed up they kicked long. When they stayed back, they played out from the back.
 
Imagine going to work at the office and telling your boss that to do the basics of your job description you'll be needing a new premium $2000 hand-crafted maple desk, a new $750 chair, a $3000 spanking new laptop with the latest graphics card, AND a team around you who are better than you at everything you do to support you.

Jesus. Some people on this forum are literally out of touch with reality.
 
When you watch how City play, especially away at anfield, it becomes even more glaringly obvious. We have good quality players, not far away from them. It is all to do with coaching. We are so inept in the way we set up, and the way we play. This is all on Ole. It's sad
 
bond19821982 said:
The fundamentals of LVG and Pep style is pretty much the same but LVG is very risk averse. He doesn't want his players to take risk while Pep create various combinations in and outside of the box. Think, LVG might have done better if we had current team (in terms of quality).
Remember he was the one who got Blind and played as a CB. At that point EPL never knew anything about " playing from the back". So I don't agree that he was outdated but we were lacking the quality to implement his ideas .
Click to expand...
The main thing that doomed LvG was his transfers and ‘my captain shall always play’. If we have gotten better midfielders than a past it Pigfecker and Schneiderlin, and a striker capable of scoring goals, that team is solid enough and capable enough in possession to move up a level. By the time Rashford was integrated into the team it was already a little too late for him.
 
Regalia said:
Imagine going to work at the office and telling your boss that to do the basics of your job description you'll be needing a new premium $2000 hand-crafted maple desk, a new $750 chair, a $3000 spanking new laptop with the latest graphics card, AND a team around you who are better than you at everything you do to support you.

Jesus. Some people on this forum are literally out of touch with reality.
Click to expand...
Not quite sure what you're getting at here?
 
,
InfiniteBoredom said:
The main thing that doomed LvG was his transfers and ‘my captain shall always play’. If we have gotten better midfielders than a past it Pigfecker and Schneiderlin, and a striker capable of scoring goals, that team is solid enough and capable enough in possession to move up a level. By the time Rashford was integrated into the team it was already a little too late for him.
Click to expand...

I don't think he had any say in transfers nor had seen them playing. If we had a proper structure who knew what he wanted, he would have been successful.

His recommendations were Bastian,Blind, Romero,Depay and Rojo.

Bastian was old but he knew what he wanted. A deep lying playmaker.

Blind and Rojo - he wanted a left footed CB who can come forward and pass.

Romero - a keeper who is composed on the build-up.
 
Champ said:
Not quite sure what you're getting at here?
Click to expand...
I’m assuming he means a mediocre manager like Ole doesn’t deserve to be managing the squad we have as it’s not his level. We’re trusting someone with our best squad in years who’s clearly not competent enough to make use of it.
 
bond19821982 said:
,

I don't think he had any say in transfers nor had seen them playing. If we had a proper structure who knew what he wanted, he would have been successful.

His recommendations were Bastian,Blind, Romero,Depay and Rojo.

Bastian was old but he knew what he wanted. A deep lying playmaker.

Blind and Rojo - he wanted a left footed CB who can come forward and pass.

Romero - a keeper who is composed on the build-up.
Click to expand...
He definitely had a say in the matter, he turned down Kroos and both Blind and Depay came due to the Dutch NT link. During his first season most signings were lined up already by the club due to him being at the WC, but he did have the veto, and he agreed on Shaw, Herrera and AdM, Falcao was an opportunistic last minute loan. In the 2nd season Depay (who were linked for the whole year and widely reported that remained at PSV at his advice), Schweistenger and Schneiderlin were all his choice, as were Martial. It was also his choice to sell RvP, not bring anyone else in after Falcao left and relied on Rooney as his main striker.

His hit rate wasnt that bad and despite the overreaction after his departure, his signings overall did not cost the club a lot, as evidenced by Mourinho being free to go on a spending spree the next couple of seasons. We took some losses here and there but recouped most of the money for AdM, Blind, Depay, Schneiderlin. It's mostly the 2nd season signings not working out, Shaw being chopped in half 9 games into the season and Rooney's uselessness that saw the team tumbling down during the winter and new year.
 
Kush said:
Whataboutery is all they have got, best to put them on ignore. They aren't interested in any discussions, just to waste your time.
Click to expand...
True, I remember after the Europa League final, people were like "but Pep lost the CL, but Tuchel lost the FA Cup, but Rodgers bottled top 4". Comparing our failures to other's failures. But never their successes against our lack of.
 
11101 said:
Sometimes a coach gets outcoached. Difference is Klopp will go to Watford next week and dominate them. He might even change things at half time and make it an even game today. We will struggle against Leicester as we have against everybody we have played since the Leeds game.
Click to expand...

@Zlatan 7 see what i mean? That's what a good coach can do. Klopp has responded. He put Salah wider to exploit the space behind Foden, and they've been going down that flank ever since and just scored from it.

Honestly this game shows everything we are missing. It's not great players winning/losing this, its great coaching.
 
11101 said:
@Zlatan 7 see what i mean? That's what a good coach can do. Klopp has responded. He put Salah wider to exploit the space behind Foden, and they've been going down that flank ever since and just scored from it.

Honestly this game shows everything we are missing. It's not great players winning/losing this, its great coaching.
Click to expand...
That goal was great no doubt, it took the world class brilliance from salah to beat men and a great run from mane.

I don’t even know what you’re arguing, we all know they are two good managers, what do you want to do, make a clone?

and I disagree with your last paragraph, of course they are great players
 
Zlatan 7 said:
That goal was great no doubt, it took the world class brilliance from salah to beat men and a great run from mane.

I don’t even know what you’re arguing, we all know they are two good managers, what do you want to do, make a clone?
Click to expand...

Find somebody a little closer to them than Ole and his merry men.

There is no way our management team would see what Pep was doing first half and respond to it the way Klopp has.
 
11101 said:
Find somebody a little closer to them than Ole and his merry men.

There is no way our management team would see what Pep was doing first half and respond to it the way Klopp has.
Click to expand...
Ole set up a lot better than what klopp did in the first half to play against pep.

who’s a little closer to them that would suit us?
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Ole set up a lot better than what klopp did in the first half to play against pep.

who’s a little closer to them that would suit us?
Click to expand...

If i knew the answer to that i'd be working for the club!

I'd be happy with Ten Hag.
 
I must repeat myself; on question about tactics our manager said that it is all about desire at the end. Who wants it more, wins. Is there anything to debate after that?
Watching Liverpool-City now. Two teams with clear patterns of play. It looks like different sport comparing with our "desire" tactics
 
Champ said:
Not quite sure what you're getting at here?
Click to expand...
The notion from Ole's fan club that Ole needs some world class coaches around him since he is a 'man manager and nothing else'. Also that we need to fill every position with a world class player (apparently we are now missing a DM) for him to finally get the team playing some football. If we buy him the best players for every position and hire top coaches because he can't coach, then what is he even doing here?
 
11101 said:
@Zlatan 7 see what i mean? That's what a good coach can do. Klopp has responded. He put Salah wider to exploit the space behind Foden, and they've been going down that flank ever since and just scored from it.

Honestly this game shows everything we are missing. It's not great players winning/losing this, its great coaching.
Click to expand...

And the first Liverpool goal was great team play. Yes we may beat Liverpool and City in one offs but they are going to win the long haul.
Plus we are talking about James feckin Milner and Jordan Henderson. They certainly don't have the players we have.
 
11101 said:
@Zlatan 7 see what i mean? That's what a good coach can do. Klopp has responded. He put Salah wider to exploit the space behind Foden, and they've been going down that flank ever since and just scored from it.

Honestly this game shows everything we are missing. It's not great players winning/losing this, its great coaching.
Click to expand...
One thing you can’t fault Ole on is changing the flow of a game.
 
Watching City, Liverpool and Chelsea just shows how far behind we are the movement, patterns of play and quick passing is years ahead of us, Ole can’t coach at that level and neither can his zero experience back room staff.
 
Castia said:
Watching City, Liverpool and Chelsea just shows how far behind we are the movement, patterns of play and quick passing is years ahead of us, Ole can’t coach at that level and neither can his zero experience back room staff.
Click to expand...

Liverpool just did it with Jordan Henderson (a laughing stock pre Klopp) and an academy lad Jones in CM, and James Milner at full back, but apparently we need 2 more World Class players in CM in order to perform.

Make no mistake, this is the standard and we’re miles off it.
 
I thought the game was defined by the moments of 'individual brilliance' that all you coaching-aficionados love to hate.

Liverpool could barely string two passes together in the first half. For all the talk of Klopp 'moving Salah wider' (gasp, tactical phenomenon) he could have easily done that before half time, right? Or, maybe, half time allowed him the chance to collectively bollock the players for not being good or aggressive enough and they responded - aided by moments of real quality by probably the best player in the league.
 
Castia said:
Watching City, Liverpool and Chelsea just shows how far behind we are the movement, patterns of play and quick passing is years ahead of us, Ole can’t coach at that level and neither can his zero experience back room staff.
Click to expand...
I simply can't understand how people who watch PL can't see that and are actually happy with Ole's "attacking football". Mind blowing
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
If that’s what you took from this high quality a game, I feel sorry for you man.

Oh, and everyone to a man loves individual brilliance.
Click to expand...

Yes just like Salah's goal but both teams had a structure that they played in. As I have said in an earlier post I saw an interview of Johan Cruijff who says that individual play should come within the structure. Some would obviously say what does Cruijff know about football coaching?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.