We are an awfully coached team

Widow said:
https://formation-y.com/en/league/premier_league.html

No one else in the top seven plays a 4231. The system is dated and we seem reluctant to try anything else.
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It's not always a fixed 4231 like in FM or FIFA tbf. There is more fluidity in a team's shape in possession and out of possession. That said, I don't like the double pivot and have always hated it.

The general structure of the team out of possession and in possession needs to be better.
 
Nicoseth said:
People on here really have short memories. Mourinho may have got more points in a season than Ole but he was equally miles off city and the football was dire most of the time - way worse than under Ole. As for winning 'a double' - the Carabao Cup and EL are hardly a double to be particularly proud of. Our football has been way more entertaining than under JM and look at the squad now compared to how Mou left it. Night and day. Time will of course decide the fate of Ole and last night was terrible, but as a fanbase we need to quit the reactionary BS and support the team and coaching staff. I am in full support of Ole but he has to deliver this season - no doubt. If he hasn't done that by the end of the season then it's time to talk about a change. Not when we're top of the league.
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A City team that reached 100 points compared to the City team Ole faced - that reached 86 points, 5 points ahead of Mourinho's second place United team which reached 81 points (compared to Ole's best season at 74 points). I'd easily argue that if Mou faced that City team and he had Ole's players, he would have won the league with his eyes closed. As far as winning trophies, you're exhibiting a small time mentality. Trophies are trophies. Trophies are needed in order to breed a winning culture into a club, the one United of old had. Without them what are we doing? Competing for top 4 before inevitably falling into obscurity like Arsenal? And EL is a major trophy, as well as the Carabao. EL in particiular might not be a CL, but I doubt any player would overlook it

Maybe our football has been more entertaining overall compared to Mourinho's tenure, but then again Ole has had much better players at his disposal. All I know is that Mou achieved everything Ole did better, on top of winning us trophies. Jury is out on Ole, he has not delivered on anything as far as I'm concerned. And this is his make or break it season. If he can't win anything with these players, then he can't win no matter what you give him. The team is stacked. It should dominate every game now with clear and sensible gameplan and pattern of play instead of individual brilliant moments form Bruno, Ronaldo, Pogba or whoever has his day.
 
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Widow said:
The system is dated
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Feels like we're back in 2011, talking about Fergie playing obsolete zombie football 4-4-2.

There's no such thing as a "dated" system, formations aren't one-size-fits-all. Playing 4-2-3-1 didn't stop Bayern winning the CL just the other year. The problem is in how we implement the system.

And three other teams in the most recent PL top seven (much as I would love to call it a season now, no one making a point in good faith will try and say we have a "top seven" after four rounds) - Leicester, Spurs, and West Ham - played a 4-2-3-1 regularly. That's literally a majority.
 
I remember Henry saying during an interview that Pep programmes his players to get the ball into the final third then let's players make decisions for themselves. It's really obvious that our players haven't been taught that and need to figure things out from the back. A lot of it is probably down to repetitions in training so, its hardly a surprise that we struggle so much unless we are countering.
 
Thread title changed by an insensitive poster.
WTF , who the feck changed the title?
 
Godfather said:
I'm still dissapointed. Sad to see Ole can't form a team that has any sort of control in football games. Even with a squad like ours. 10 down or not, but we could have at least tried to keep some possession at times with the player material we have. And it's nothing new either. Even in our other games this season we hardly ever looked totally in control.
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Yeah it's unbelievable that some of Ole's most ardent supporters don't seem to have any concern with how utterly shite we are at controlling games, I am just getting so bored of seeing teams just walk through our midfield because our coaching team seemingly put zero emphasis on actually keeping the bloody ball.
 
PoTMS said:
I just hope one day soon we get a proper coach in to manage these exceptional group of players. Ole is not that guy. Him as Director of Football on the other hand would suit him down to the ground.
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Don't hold your breath when our board don't give a shit about on the pitch success
 
croadyman said:
Yeah it's unbelievable that some of Ole's most ardent supporters don't seem to have any concern with how utterly shite we are at controlling games, I am just getting so bored of seeing teams just walk through our midfield because our coaching team seemingly put zero emphasis on actually keeping the bloody ball.
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I was one of those ardent supporters. But I can no longer see any value in keeping Ole who appears tactically naïve when faced with adversity. It will cost us another year of silverware, which he will paper over through his impressive savviness in skirting around pointed questions posed by the media.
 


If you have the time, watch this video.

Sums it all for me, what do I stands for, what do I feel about Ole.

It's not blind support, but being a real United fan.

I wish that one day, all these massive overreactions will go away.
 
With the money we spent, Wolves, Southampton & fecking Young Boys were the better team playing against us.

I see no improvement from last season even though we added Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho. It's still roller coaster from Ole.

Our style of play is still mainly relying on individual brilliance. The passings are slow and predictable, boring stuffs. Minimal off the ball movement. Look at how City, Liverpool and Chelsea play, it's day and night.

The excuses after more than 3 years:

1. Ole still need time to coach his team to play attacking football

2. Ole still need time to build his team. Now still missing CDM, RB, World class striker in Haaland, bla bla bla

3. Ole still need 3 to 4 transfer windows to get his team.

4. Ole is doing very well finishing top 4 two season in a row.

5. SAF also play zombie football in his last years at the club

6. No other manager can quarantee success so better stick with Ole

7. Those that can't see progress under Ole is spoilt and not a Top Red.
 
meamth said:


If you have the time, watch this video.

Sums it all for me, what do I stands for, what do I feel about Ole.

It's not blind support, but being a real United fan.

I wish that one day, all these massive overreactions will go away.
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I wish these pair of Ole inner clowns actually had the balls to comment on how utterly crap we are at controlling a game rather than being cowardly and skirting round the problem like the majority of these top reds in our fanbase. The best person I think to speak on this club is that Jay Daly from United Stand who will never sugarcoat things which is so refreshing
 
Yakuza_devils said:
With the money we spent, Wolves, Southampton & fecking Young Boys were the better team playing against us.

I see no improvement from last season even though we added Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho. It's still roller coaster from Ole.

Our style of play is still mainly relying on individual brilliance. The passings are slow and predictable, boring stuffs. Minimal off the ball movement. Look at how City, Liverpool and Chelsea play, it's day and night.

The excuses after more than 3 years:

1. Ole still need time to coach his team to play attacking football

2. Ole still need time to build his team. Now still missing CDM, RB, World class striker in Haaland, bla bla bla

3. Ole still need 3 to 4 transfer windows to get his team.

4. Ole is doing very well finishing top 4 two season in a row.

5. SAF also play zombie football in his last years at the club

6. No other manager can quarantee success so better stick with Ole

7. Those that can't see progress under Ole is spoilt and not a Top Red.
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1. We played attacking football more often than not since Ole came in.

2. This team is good enough to win something, this is the season to prove it.

3. Nope, who said that?

4. Considering the fact that he did it during his rebuild, that was impressive. That's a fact you cant fabricate. I don't want to hear excuses about Chelsea being shit or Liverpool being shit, the table doesn't lie.

5. He actually did. Some of the games was atrocious to watch.

6. Of course there are managers out there, but why change when we're on the rise?

7. Actually, this is true. You want to chop and changing managers because we're an elite club we should be chasing for prestige and prestige only. Being a United fan is more than that, it's the romantiscm of how we gained those successful stories.
 
croadyman said:
I wish these pair of Ole inner clowns actually had the balls to comment on how utterly crap we are at controlling a game rather than being cowardly and skirting round the problem like the majority of these top reds in our fanbase. The best person I think to speak on this club is that Jay Daly from United Stand who will never sugarcoat things which is so refreshing
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Yeah. It is still utter nonsense to believe we can't control the game of football despite being getting results.

Fine we haven't win trophies, but like you and the united stand dude has been using hyperbole to suggest we can't do it at all.

Which is a complete nonsense.

A incompetent manager like Ole should've failed to build this team we have now, and consistently failed to qualify for CL if all the things you all said is true.

Fact is, Ole has done it over and over again, there's no way we can't believe he will improve from where he is now.

That's the reality.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
With the money we spent, Wolves, Southampton & fecking Young Boys were the better team playing against us.

I see no improvement from last season even though we added Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho. It's still roller coaster from Ole.

Our style of play is still mainly relying on individual brilliance. The passings are slow and predictable, boring stuffs. Minimal off the ball movement. Look at how City, Liverpool and Chelsea play, it's day and night.

The excuses after more than 3 years:

1. Ole still need time to coach his team to play attacking football

2. Ole still need time to build his team. Now still missing CDM, RB, World class striker in Haaland, bla bla bla

3. Ole still need 3 to 4 transfer windows to get his team.

4. Ole is doing very well finishing top 4 two season in a row.

5. SAF also play zombie football in his last years at the club

6. No other manager can quarantee success so better stick with Ole

7. Those that can't see progress under Ole is spoilt and not a Top Red.
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Every single one of these points is bang on but some people just want me to ostriches so don't waste your breath
 
meamth said:
Yeah. It is still utter nonsense to believe we can't control the game of football despite being getting results.

Fine we haven't win trophies, but like you and the united stand dude is being using hyperbole to suggest we can't do it at all.
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Alright then when did we actually last control a game for 90 mins do enlighten me on that
 
Rash Decision said:
I didn’t know others could change your thread title. Would it have to be a site admin?
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Yeah, it will have to be a mod.

Someone couldn't just take the criticism and probably pissed the pants thinking of backlash when the results go bad again in coming weeks.

.
 
meamth said:
Yeah. It is still utter nonsense to believe we can't control the game of football despite being getting results.

Fine we haven't win trophies, but like you and the united stand dude has been using hyperbole to suggest we can't do it at all.

Which is a complete nonsense.

A incompetent manager like Ole should've failed to build this team we have now, and consistently failed to qualify for CL if all the things you all said is true.

Fact is, Ole has done it over and over again, there's no way we can't believe he will improve from where he is now.

That's the reality.
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IF he had actually not just appointed the Utd old boys when he got the job then wouldn't have lost me way back in March 2019
 
croadyman said:
IF he had actually not just appointed the Utd old boys when he got the job then wouldn't have lost me way back in March 2019
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Well other clubs do tend to hire old boys to their coaching or management roles.

It is a problem for Ole, but not for other managers. That's weird, isn't it?

We lost some identity since Moyes was appointed.

This team feels like United again.
 
bond19821982 said:
Yeah, it will have to be a mod.

Someone couldn't just take the criticism and probably pissed the pants thinking of backlash when the results go bad again in coming weeks.
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Yeah that must be it :lol: never mind the fact that the thread is already 100 pages. Do you check this every day? The reaction to a harmless title change is hilarious
 
mu4c_20le said:
Yeah that must be it :lol: never mind the fact that the thread is already 100 pages. Do you check this every day? The reaction to a harmless title change is hilarious
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It's good the mods acknowledged that poor coaching thing is pure nonsense. :lol:
 
meamth said:
Well other clubs do tend to hire old boys to their coaching or management roles.

It is a problem for Ole, but not for other managers. That's weird, isn't it?

We lost some identity since Moyes was appointed.

This team feels like United again.
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Yeah Chelsea springs to mind but fair play to their ruthless board they soon realised what a mistake it was to appoint Lampard and did the right thing by pulling the trigger on him early enough to save the season, I will acknowledge that it can work appointing old boys to coaching roles but only if your manager is elite level like a Klopp/Pep/Tuchel not just a good man manager with little coaching ability.
 
Feck me, this forum is getting to RAWK levels of toxicity when even the staff are taking sides and changing topic titles to WUM/Express an opinion that will wind others up.
 
Rash Decision said:
I’ve seen mods edit individual posts in this manner on other clubs’ forums but thought Redcafe was above this.
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It's reflective of the state of chaos and civil war within the fan base currently. Worse than under LVG and Mou. Kinda sad.

Also proof that OGS is not 'bringing the fans/club together.' I remember more boredom, despair, and desperation, but never this level of shithousery.
 
croadyman said:
Yeah Chelsea springs to mind but fair play to their ruthless board they soon realised what a mistake it was to appoint Lampard and did the right thing by pulling the trigger on him early enough to save the season, I will acknowledge that it can work appointing old boys to coaching roles but only if your manager is elite level like a Klopp/Pep/Tuchel not just a good man manager with little coaching ability.
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Lampard was given so many players and during the season he seems to lost the dressing room and finally the board.

Ole hasn't got to the stage yet in 3 seasons, pretty impressive stuff if you ask me.

Who can blame Ole for entrusting the coaches like Fergie did?

Like I said, I'm judging Ole this season, no trophies, he has to go.
 
owlo said:
It's reflective of the state of chaos and civil war within the fan base currently. Worse than under LVG and Mou. Kinda sad.

Also proof that OGS is not 'bringing the fans/club together.' I remember more boredom, despair, and desperation, but never this level of shithousery.
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To be fair Redcafe may not be reflective of overall fan sentiment, so maybe the majority are still very happy with Ole, I don’t know.

But now that we’ve stooped to this level, maybe an Ole-outer mod somewhere would want to change the title of Ole’s performance thread to “Performances”, with quotation marks. That would be fun:wenger:
 
croadyman said:
Where does this needs to win silverware this year to keep his job come from, nope just needs to secure that champions league money and those yankee leeches will be rejoicing in their vast Florida mansions as always
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Issue is those leeches have spent good money on players. However the decision to let go of a manager should not be reliant on owners who barely have football knowledge. This should sit with the CEO. If the man in that seat is useless, then we will suffer as we are now.

Problem is the pals in media which Ole has. None of them is pointing out that how we have no patterns of play, how we have deadwood like Lingard and Jones on such high salary still in our squad, how we are hoarding players for the sake of it. Unfortunately if it was someone else, they would have turned on him by now. Even Keane is very lenient on Ole when he is someone who would call spade a spade.
 
meamth said:
Lampard was given so many players and during the season he seems to lost the dressing room and finally the board.

Ole hasn't got to the stage yet in 3 seasons, pretty impressive stuff if you ask me.

Who can blame Ole for entrusting the coaches like Fergie did?

Like I said, I'm judging Ole this season, no trophies, he has to go.
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I would say a Carabao cup should also not save him. If he gets knocked out of the CL group stages this time as well, we should get rid immediately else we risk the chance of having a sulking Ronaldo.
 
meamth said:
1. We played attacking football more often than not since Ole came in.

2. This team is good enough to win something, this is the season to prove it.

3. Nope, who said that?

4. Considering the fact that he did it during his rebuild, that was impressive. That's a fact you cant fabricate. I don't want to hear excuses about Chelsea being shit or Liverpool being shit, the table doesn't lie.

5. He actually did. Some of the games was atrocious to watch.

6. Of course there are managers out there, but why change when we're on the rise?

7. Actually, this is true. You want to chop and changing managers because we're an elite club we should be chasing for prestige and prestige only. Being a United fan is more than that, it's the romantiscm of how we gained those successful stories.
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1. Let's just say our definition of attacking football is very different. Or make it simpler, ask opposition fans' general consensus whether man utd is an entertaining attacking team and you will get your answer.

2. Win something? Man Utd should aims for the league and CL. Anyway, hope u are right on this.

3. Go read more and you will find it in the forum.

4. Only Ole has 3 years and hundreds of millions for rebuild.

5. Can't believe u really put down SAF in order to make your point on Ole. SAF won MAJOR titles doing that.

6. On the rise with 2 TOP 4 finish and zombie outdated football? If this is the standard then no point replacing Ole with better manager.

7. Top Red
 
Rash Decision said:
To be fair Redcafe may not be reflective of overall fan sentiment, so maybe the majority are still very happy with Ole, I don’t know.

But now that we’ve stooped to this level, maybe an Ole-outer mod somewhere would want to change the title of Ole’s performance thread to “Performances”, with quotation marks. That would be fun:wenger:
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Maybe so. Unfortunately I don't have the opportunity to attend games, so this is my only way to gauge the mood of other fans and communicate with them on a mass basis.

And it's pretty grim.
 
NK86 said:
Problem is the pals in media which Ole has. None of them is pointing out that how we have no patterns of play, how we have deadwood like Lingard and Jones on such high salary still in our squad, how we are hoarding players for the sake of it. Unfortunately if it was someone else, they would have turned on him by now. Even Keane is very lenient on Ole when he is someone who would call spade a spade.
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Is this really an issue though? Outside of the old boys’ club, I think Ole has been very heavily criticised by the media in general. Look at the amount of coddling that Arteta gets in comparison.
 
NK86 said:
I would say a Carabao cup should also not save him. If he gets knocked out of the CL group stages this time as well, we should get rid immediately else we risk the chance of having a sulking Ronaldo.
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Of course. Unless we came close to the title with 3-6 points short I'm okay with it. Devastated but will always believe again.

Carabao/FA cup, with intense title challenge is acceptable for me.
 
lex talionis said:
Please don’t misunderstand me. I never liked the idea of Van Gaal or Mourinho managing United. But we were all told their resumes spoke volumes about the glory they would bring back to United. Despite their resumes, both were a disaster.

Once we went down to 10 men, Ole decided to go entirely defensive to hang on to the lead. We see this all the time. It doesn’t always work out, but we do see this all the time. Had Ole gone for the second goal we might have put Young Boys away, but we might have also exposed our back line to numbers.

A manager who goes down 10 men and a 1-0 lead has a decision to make. It’s not daft to go defensive in that situation.
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You can be defensive and still keep some semblance of attacking threat. That way the opposition will also be wary instead of completely overwhelming us. We basically hoofed long as if we were in the final minute of injury time since the second half began (irony of it that when we actually needed to we gifted a goal with a stupid back pass).

We can give Ole prime Barcelona and he will still have them playing counter attacking football as he has no other way it seems or is incapable of putting that across in training.
 
Rash Decision said:
Is this really an issue though? Outside of the old boys’ club, I think Ole has been very heavily criticised by the media in general. Look at the amount of coddling that Arteta gets in comparison.
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Not sure if it's an issue or not. However if the former United players were objective in their views, we will definitely see more of a reaction from the fans too.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
1. Let's just say our definition of attacking football is very different. Or make it simpler, ask opposition fans' general consensus whether man utd is an entertaining attacking team and you will get your answer.

2. Win something? Man Utd should aims for the league and CL. Anyway, hope u are right on this.

3. Go read more and you will find it in the forum.

4. Only Ole has 3 years and hundreds of millions for rebuild.

5. Can't believe u really put down SAF in order to make your point on Ole. SAF won MAJOR titles doing that.

6. On the rise with 2 TOP 4 finish and zombie outdated football? If this is the standard then no point replacing Ole with better manager.

7. Top Red
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Top Red indeed.

Just of curiosity, do you think LVG United is more entertaining than Ole's?

Just trying to gauge something here.
 
Sviken said:
A City team that reached 100 points compared to the City team Ole faced - that reached 86 points, 5 points ahead of Mourinho's second place United team which reached 81 points (compared to Ole's best season at 74 points). I'd easily argue that if Mou faced that City team and he had Ole's players, he would have won the league with his eyes closed. As far as winning trophies, you're exhibiting a small time mentality. Trophies are trophies. Trophies are needed in order to breed a winning culture into a club, the one United of old had. Without them what are we doing? Competing for top 4 before inevitably falling into obscurity like Arsenal? And EL is a major trophy, as well as the Carabao. EL in particiular might not be a CL, but I doubt any player would overlook it

Maybe our football has been more entertaining overall compared to Mourinho's tenure, but then again Ole has had much better players at his disposal. All I know is that Mou achieved everything Ole did better, on top of winning us trophies. Jury is out on Ole, he has not delivered on anything as far as I'm concerned. And this is his make or break it season. If he can't win anything with these players, then he can't win no matter what you give him. The team is stacked. It should dominate every game now with clear and sensible gameplan and pattern of play instead of individual brilliant moments form Bruno, Ronaldo, Pogba or whoever has his day.
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No my friend. Ole has not had 'much better players' at his disposal. Don't let the quality of this window blinker the reality.. This is the first time under Ole that we have a proper squad.

Harry Maguire and Bruno are the only two other signings which were made since Ole came in that could have improved Jose's squad.

Jose bought in Lukaku, Pogba, Zlatan, Mhikitaryan, Sanchez and Dalot. He also had peak De Gea (which Ole has just not got)!

Btw - the same Pogba who has started this season on fire, was called a Virus by Jose and cast aside.

If you remove your blinkers, you'll see that Jose would have never assembled this squad and if he got it, he would destroy it quickly. (Spurs last season).
 
Apparently, it's clear to everyone except a select portion of United fans that the coaching at Manchester United is not up to scratch. I mean pretty much every neutral (who would otherwise have no agenda) and rival fans can see it is our weakness. 3 years on and we play exactly the same way we did before, just with better players. You're not gonna find a single rival fan that wants Ole out.

And yet you're seen to be moaning or an awful supporter if you point that out. Feck me. When people used to say our club is different, I thought it was just pretentious "mes que en club" bullshit but now I finally see it. We truly have some "amazing" supporters who will bury their head in the sand and just about accept anything. I don't think there's a club out there where the support would be so divided with such mediocre results. Nearly £500m spent and 3 years under Ole's reign and the "achievements" are we finished third and second in the league, conveniently forgetting all the numerous setbacks and failures on the way. Building a good squad is now the standard for being Manchester United manager apparently, never mind winning trophies.
 
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