ok. I guess, there is no point elaborating this any further.
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
- Start date
I concede to your point, bravo.Thanks for solidifying my argument.
If it wasn't meant sincerely: very bad or awful probably isn't the best word to describe a coaching, that got us quite a lot of wins in the last 2 years. A lot of goals and a few deep runs in tournament. Seriously don't make me take a stand for Ole now, I am not suited for it, but awful just a few levels OTT. I think, the common ground should be that the coaching is ok to alright but not close to the level of our competitors.
PS: You've just taught me a new way to acknowledge a lost argument on the internet. Easier on the ego this "concede" business. And probably more appropriate considering the largely subjective nature of internet engagements.
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The problem is actually that we have three attackers all on the same side of the pitch rush upfield at once wanting the counter attack. When the ball gets turned over, that leaves acres of space on the left side of our box to pass into, as you can see in the picture above. Thats just set piece coaching.
The Fred thing, OK let's just accept that can happen. The problem is that two players, Varane and Shaw, have both gone for the player on the ball and neither have covered the runner. Neither knew exactly what they should be doing and ended up trying to do the same thing.
Dealing with counter attacks, deciding who covers what and when, that's exactly kind of thing the players do all day at training. When their main striker runs the entire length of the field unmarked into our box to score, that's not an individual mistake.
We're a bunch of talented players all doing their own stuff (especially the forwards), and we're not playing as a team at all.
This post has nailed it.
The higher-ups are just too scared of making a decision. This has been the case post-Fergie, they haven't reacted until it's almost necessary. Ole was given the job early because he had backing of almost every Utd fan at the time, the call to appoint him was too easy. It also allowed them a jail free card, in case things went south. Which they certainly did at end of his 1st season. From what Woodward has spoken, he really believes they have something in Ole. Hence, his parting gift was a new 3+1 contract for Ole few months ago.
Unfortunately for us, the most frustrating aspect is, his dismissal will be long and drawn out. They'll have to be forced into making a decision. But, that's not even the scary part? The scariest bit is, I genuinely don't have any faith in them making the right call when it comes to our future. You look at the managers and contrasting football styles they've employed in past 8 years. Does anyone feel confident, that our board has the vision of what future Utd looks like? Ole's new deal puts things into perspective, our problems have been similar and apparent for a while. Most fans, just chose to ignore them. And, so did our board but they still rewarded him with a new deal. It's terrifying that with the resources we have, we still don't have a clue on how to setup the success for immediate future.
I disagree with your first point. Coaching is designed to make players better and ensure they know how to handle certain situations.
When Fred picked that ball up facing his own goal, he had two options. A simple pass back to his defender or a ‘cute’ ball around to his left which was never on due to Gray’s position. He tried the cute ball when there was no need and subsequently lost it. Then, in an attempt to recover, he got caught wrong side and didn’t have the forethought to just foul Gray to stop the attack.
The whole way he dealt with the threat suggests he didn’t have a clue what to do.The fact that we get caught on countless counterattacks at the moment suggests we are just not working on them in training… coaching.
Coaching isn’t just about improving players’ technical ability, but ensuring that everyone knows how to play in a specific system and what to do in certain scenarios. Even the most experienced pros will need to be coached to understand what their roles are on the pitch, what they do at set pieces, where they position themselves, where they should target their passing, etc.
Expecting players to just turn up and produce magic is incredibly naive and seems to be exactly what our coaches are doing. Our entire game plan seems to be set up on passing it from side to side to get a wide player on the ball, then cross it into a crowded area…
[QUOTE="AneRu, post: 27875450, member: 11835
Those individual errors cost us how many goals?
[/QUOTE]
feels like every single one at the minute
Those individual errors cost us how many goals?
[/QUOTE]
feels like every single one at the minute
We get killed on the counter in every game. It’s ridiculous.
It’s deafening how much we’re missing a proper CDM.
It’s deafening how much we’re missing a proper CDM.
I suspect he is afraid of upsetting the apple cart by calling out players on their mistakes or performance. When have you ever seen a player have a poor game and come back next week looking like they’ve been torn a new arse, fired up and improved under him?
When have you ever seen the team react this way to a bad performance?
The ONLY thing he’s got going for him now is this idea he deserves continued employment due to how bad the dressing room was under Mourinho and how it improved under him. You think he’s giving these players a bollocking every time they deserve it? No fecking chance
Part of me wonders if this is why he’s playing ‘strongman’ with VDB
When have you ever seen the team react this way to a bad performance?
The ONLY thing he’s got going for him now is this idea he deserves continued employment due to how bad the dressing room was under Mourinho and how it improved under him. You think he’s giving these players a bollocking every time they deserve it? No fecking chance
Part of me wonders if this is why he’s playing ‘strongman’ with VDB
Has he been replaced yet?
Exactly my impression. If you watch the clip where he’s annoyingly smiling and laughing in the 93rd minute it starts with him shouting orders to ‘Scotty’…..that he then feels he has to mitigate by letting him know they are still pals. ‘Like me’ ‘Like me’ it’s not good enough. He was ruthless as a footballer but as a man he is sadly just too nice. He’s a great guy and he’s done a very good job in certain areas but he’s not going to control Ronaldo’s appetite and Varane’s expectations.
Loved the Play Donny sign in the background.
As everyone say the crowd will not turn on Ole in the stadium, but it is now obvious that the fans are not in the least happy with what is happening.Exactly. You are the manager Ole. If you want to rip someone head off just do it. He is far too pally with them. This is a ruthless business and other managers are now just making a fool of him.
I find it strange that players who have left the club under Ole have never mentioned anything negative about the coaching they received at United nor have they mentioned Ole is weak tactically.
However I have seen a lot of players who were critical of these things under the previous managers Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho.
If Ole is such a poor coach how come people who have worked for him never mention it ?
However I have seen a lot of players who were critical of these things under the previous managers Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho.
If Ole is such a poor coach how come people who have worked for him never mention it ?
Probably cause he isn't an asshole. We know Ole isn't of the required managerial quality.
He isn't near Pep Klopp or Tuchel level and that's what we need.
Coaching isn't even coming into it at this point.
We need to start with not doing ridiculous things like completely wasting two substitutes with over 30 minutes left when you are 1-0 up.
Nearly every game this season Ole has either set up the team or made changes which have made it significantly more difficult for them to win than it should be, regardless of how well or not they may be coached.
That's a pretty massive problem. Especially as often you can actually visibly see how his interference makes things more difficult and drains the confidence from the players.
It also drains the enjoyment out of watching the team. I've spent a majority of our games this season frustrated and irritated at watching our players struggle against our own game management, rather than actually enjoying the football.
It really is the most basic part of management to be able to recognise what is and isn't working and Ole is failing that test in every single game and often actually sabotaging things that are working to boot.
We need to start with not doing ridiculous things like completely wasting two substitutes with over 30 minutes left when you are 1-0 up.
Nearly every game this season Ole has either set up the team or made changes which have made it significantly more difficult for them to win than it should be, regardless of how well or not they may be coached.
That's a pretty massive problem. Especially as often you can actually visibly see how his interference makes things more difficult and drains the confidence from the players.
It also drains the enjoyment out of watching the team. I've spent a majority of our games this season frustrated and irritated at watching our players struggle against our own game management, rather than actually enjoying the football.
It really is the most basic part of management to be able to recognise what is and isn't working and Ole is failing that test in every single game and often actually sabotaging things that are working to boot.
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Most obvious explanation is usually is the correct one rather than looking for some deeper analysis like some are doing in this thread, like how Ole seems to be pally and friendly with players which might be affecting how seriously he is taken by players , how many who have left Under Ole have not said anything about his poor coaching how about we just trust what we see regularly on the pitch which is abysmal most of the time which is clear indication of how average is Solskjaer as a coach .
Job was too bug for Moyes. Other 2 were well past it. And seems Ole’s taken us as far as he can. We’ve just gotten all 4 appointments wrong IMO. Well, Ole wasn’t the wrong appointment. He’s done some good things.
Is it a training ground thing that we keep passing the ball backwards and across the line when a good thump forward into space could be the best option with the speed of our forwards.
Holding up the ball while doing this backwards and sideways passing has got us caught out many times instead of pumping it forwards. We seem to wait and give the opposition a chance to get back and mark our forwards. I have seen Ronaldo and Cavani with their hands up calling for the ball, and players playing the safety first method. We have forgotten the game of chance with the long ball.
Holding up the ball while doing this backwards and sideways passing has got us caught out many times instead of pumping it forwards. We seem to wait and give the opposition a chance to get back and mark our forwards. I have seen Ronaldo and Cavani with their hands up calling for the ball, and players playing the safety first method. We have forgotten the game of chance with the long ball.
Bruno’s entire game is based on that “one chance” style of play. Which often leads to us losing possesion and getting turned over.
It’s ok playing a long ball over the top when it’s an option, most the times teams are waiting for this moment because it’s easy to defend. Even yesterday we tried it multiple times and we really struggled to win the initial header.
I'm still completely baffled by the whole Sancho transfer.
We spend 3 seasons chasing him and for what? He's barely played and when he does he's expected to play in a completely different way to what he's done at Dortmund. It beggars belief. What goes through Oles mind?
Fred and McTomminay simply aren't up to standard, so playing them in a midfield 2 to sweep up is like using chewing gum to fix the holes in a submarine.
I'm so tired of seeing Utd spend big money on key signings only to play them out of position or not play them at all. Mark my words, give it 2 seasons under this managed team and Sancho will be putting in a transfer request.
We spend 3 seasons chasing him and for what? He's barely played and when he does he's expected to play in a completely different way to what he's done at Dortmund. It beggars belief. What goes through Oles mind?
Fred and McTomminay simply aren't up to standard, so playing them in a midfield 2 to sweep up is like using chewing gum to fix the holes in a submarine.
I'm so tired of seeing Utd spend big money on key signings only to play them out of position or not play them at all. Mark my words, give it 2 seasons under this managed team and Sancho will be putting in a transfer request.
Why would you have a go at someone you might have liked? For no reason? I mean, Ole seems to be a more than decent guy, fair, transparent. I don't think, there is any reason, that he went into a fight with someone, which would have been able to end in a situation of having a player with some sort of motivation to have a dig. I think, that is the most plausible answer to your question.
And who knows, as we don't know any insights, maybe the coaching isn't the only problem at Carrington, maybe we have too many players who are a bit thick. Or our coaching team isn't really suited to communicate their point. There are so many factors that could go into it - as somebody else said, microscoping these things will only get us so far, best is to rely on what we see on the pitch because at the end of the day, it is a results business.
What??? Are you sure we are talking about Manchester United? Mens 1st team? Season 21/22?
Because if anything, we go way to much with the long balls. And even with having Ronaldo and/or Cavani up top, these kind of balls are always a percentage game and an easily lost possession in way too many cases. We are crying out for having some sort of control over matches, keeping the ball to avoid being attacked and trying to use it to create largely promising goal chances...Yet you describe the need to play more long balls.
Did I misunderstand your point maybe? Because it seems completely wrong to me. Just watch the game yesterday, when Pogba entered the pitch, we did nothing but hit it long (no wonder, midfield has been abandonded from then on).
Theres a reason Everton never allowed us to create a situation like that one in the pic where Everton should have won the match. That's literally coaching. Good coaches reduce the errors players make its that simple.
Because he is a nice guy and has never called them out. No players call out managers that aren't dicks to them.
No I meant when we are under pressure, and playing around with the ball in our own half. We seem to eventually lose the ball with the simple pass going astray, and most times it's turned into conceding a goal, when the long ball can take the pressure off us and maybe even put pressure on them. Carrick used to do this all the time, but it seems we have not got anyone bar Pogba who can pass long and direct.
Welcome.
Players gladly accept managerial mediocrity. Most top league players are managed week in and week out by objectively average managers.
If the ball was played properly into space or directly to the feet of our players, like Carrick used to do. It takes the pressure off us and allows our players to get back into position. It also gives the advantage back to us to press for goal. We have conceded too many times by losing the ball in our own half by passing the ball backwards and sideways. We just don't have a midfielder who can pass the ball to get us out of trouble in these situations,
Teams have got to know our play when pressing us, and know that a mistake will come by passing backwards and sideways like this. We have been caught out too many times this season and last season doing this, which is mostly why we can't keep a clean sheet in games.
Too much sense in this, will never happen.
I'd obviously still have Ole's version of United over Mourinho's - that was the real nadir imo.
But it could be time, memory lapse or whatever: I think LVG would get a real song out of this team. That's how bad it's gotten. I'm thinking favourably about LVG's coaching. Dear lord.
But it could be time, memory lapse or whatever: I think LVG would get a real song out of this team. That's how bad it's gotten. I'm thinking favourably about LVG's coaching. Dear lord.
Last year before we played Leicester in the cup game, Ole using his great team management rested players so they could be fit for their NTs, and we got knocked out of the cup.
Yesterday, knowing full well the players will be away with NTs for two weeks, he rests players for their NTs.
Brilliant squad management by Ole.
World Class squad managed by a League One manager.
Hes simply our Frank Lampard just a shame we arent run by a ruthless owner hell bent on winning things as opposed to just doing enough to keep the cash flooding in.
Yesterday, knowing full well the players will be away with NTs for two weeks, he rests players for their NTs.
Brilliant squad management by Ole.
World Class squad managed by a League One manager.
Hes simply our Frank Lampard just a shame we arent run by a ruthless owner hell bent on winning things as opposed to just doing enough to keep the cash flooding in.
Moyes would do a better job with this squad
why have the number of individual mistakes absolutely exploded this season? is this something systemic or something that is just short term bad luck that will wash out. if it is systemic, is it a confidence thing, pressure from being at home infront of fans again? the players struggled to perform before lockdown at home and i saw an improvement when fans left the stadium
hahahaha my god, 5 year olds on the forum
You think he wouldnt do a better job than ‘the smiling assasin’?
How about we back Ole as the Manager, support him/get behind him, but just get rid of McKenna & Carrick etc. & replace them with a top class number 2/ trainer/tactical coach. (a la Queiroz type.?)
I think a lot of us agree Ole has brought a better feel to the club than Moyes/Van Gaal & Mourinho, plays better football (most of the time.!) & he has made some good/better signings than previous managers. Maybe he just needs that Technical coach/expert by his side for the next few years, to take us to the next level.?
I think a lot of us agree Ole has brought a better feel to the club than Moyes/Van Gaal & Mourinho, plays better football (most of the time.!) & he has made some good/better signings than previous managers. Maybe he just needs that Technical coach/expert by his side for the next few years, to take us to the next level.?
It's the managers prerogative to choose his coaches. Ole would have to make that decision. However, I would say it does make a lot of sense for Ole to try and get as Neville would say best in class and see how it goes. It's either that or lose the job if the recent results and performances do not improve.
PS: I have no clue about the competency or otherwise of our present coaches.
He's coming into his 10th year as a manager at the first team level. If he still has no clue on what he needs from his coaching staff, it doesn't say well about him as a manager.
Might also be a communication issue? Without fans in the stadium you can hear what is going on and give some orders to your teammates. The worse the plan is, the more important spontaneous communication becomes.