We are an awfully coached team

Rhyme Animal said:
No idea why people quote the Guardiola comparison when it’s a complete and wild outlier.

It’s like suggesting you should spend your money on lottery tickets because someone else, in another country, once won the lottery…

The simple, glaringly obvious, common sense logic that a global juggernaut like Utd employing the manager of fecking Molde, who got Cardiff relegated, would end in failure is so blatant it’s almost surreal.

As I said, he’s actually done surprisingly well considering his level as a coach!
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I am not sure that Guaridola case has the same
probability as winning a lottery. Wasn't Zidane the same? But either way, you have to admit that an experienced, highly decorated manager can also end up being a disaster. The point here is that past success is weak indicator of future one

There are not many managers more decorated than Mourinho and Van Gaal but in my opinion their time with us was even worse than Ole's in that the sense of hopelessness was worse. They did win Europa League and FA Cup respectively, but we all know that the only trophies that truly matter for a club like United are EPL title and UCL.

We are not Everton to get excited by anything else. Besides, Ole only lost Europa League on weird penalties, that is a statistical fluke and had he won it, we would still be critical of him
 
NewGlory said:
I am not sure that Guaridola case has the same
probability as winning a lottery. Wasn't Zidane the same? But either way, you have to admit that an experienced, highly decorated manager can also end up being a disaster. There are not many managers more decorated than Mourinho and Van Gaal but in my opinion their time with us was even worse than Ole's in that the sense of hopefulness was worse. They did win Europa League and FA Cup respectively, but we all know that the only trophies that truly matter for a club like United
are EPL title and UCL. We are not Everton to get excited by anything else. Besides, Ole only lost Europa League on weird penalties, that is a statistical fluke and had he won it, we would
still be critical of him
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Mourinho and LvG both brought Silverware to United and both had worse players than Ole currently has.

Ole has failed more than either of them. Though you (and I) LIKE him more doesn’t change that fact.

We’ll agree to disagree.
 
He will lose the dressing room soon. Many of our players want to compete. At some point being nice, doesn't cut it. Ronaldo his not going to be smiling his way through another slug of a season.
Get rid of this guy now ffs!
 
el3mel said:
At least Barca knew what they were doing when they hired Pep. They knew his philosophy from Barca B team and knew which style he would implement and if it will suit their players. They didn't expect such huge success but Pep was hired based on scientific basis.

We hired Ole based on honeymoon period and completely emotional basis. The plan from the start was Ole as caretaker and new manager in summer, but then the club witnessed the honeymoon period and threw all plans out of window. The reality is I don't see the basis United hired Ole as permanent manager on except hoping the honeymoon period will extend forever.

If we had waited till the end of the season and witnessed they way we finished such season with 2 wins out of our last 10 games, there's no way in hell Ole would have been hired permanently.

That's the problem in it.
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Yet Ole defendants will preach of how this is all part of the process. His underwhelming runs have been disregarded throughout his tenure, it’s bizarre. He didn’t warrant the job.
 
The worst thing about this, for me personally, is that despite being someone who has thought Ole isn't up for it since Summer '19, Ole comes across as a genuinely good person.

With Mourinho, he had a bit of a nasty side to him. With van Gaal, he seemed strong enough to not give a toss (though I never wanted him out). With Ole, he seems like such a genuinely good person, a "nice guy" that calling for his sacking, despite it making sense, just hurts a little bit added with the fact that he's a United legend.

It's a massive shame it hasn't worked out for him. A real, real massive shame. I so wish it did work out for him with us because of his character and because of his history with United.

A shame it has to come to an end sooner or later.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
No idea why people quote the Guardiola comparison when it’s a complete and wild outlier.

It’s like suggesting you should spend your money on lottery tickets because someone else, in another country, once won the lottery…

The simple, glaringly obvious, common sense logic that a global juggernaut like Utd employing the manager of fecking Molde, who got Cardiff relegated, would end in failure is so blatant it’s almost surreal.

As I said, he’s actually done surprisingly well considering his level as a coach!
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Yeah, he only needed to outspend nearly the rest of the league just to get top 4.
 
el3mel said:
At least Barca knew what they were doing when they hired Pep. They knew his philosophy from Barca B team and knew which style he would implement and if it will suit their players. They didn't expect such huge success but Pep was hired based on scientific basis.

We hired Ole based on honeymoon period and completely emotional basis. The plan from the start was Ole as caretaker and new manager in summer, but then the club witnessed the honeymoon period and threw all plans out of window. The reality is I don't see the basis United hired Ole as permanent manager on except hoping the honeymoon period will extend forever.

If we had waited till the end of the season and witnessed they way we finished such season with 2 wins out of our last 10 games, there's no way in hell Ole would have been hired permanently.

That's the problem in it.
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So Pep was hired because he was known in Barca B, Ole was hired because he also managed our youth team (so arguably was also known) + he knocked out star-packed PSG in two legs of UCL, with a much weaker United.

Sure, there was emotional aspect to it, but if you remember - everybody and their mothers wanted him and I am not sure it was any more of a gamble than hiring Pep. The diffence is that Pep worked out and Ole - less so. There was no more science in either of the cases
 
Adisa said:
He will lose the dressing room soon. Many of our players want to compete. At some point being nice, doesn't cut it. Ronaldo his not going to be smiling his way through another slug of a season.
Get rid of this guy now ffs!
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Ronaldo knows exactly what he’s doing when he storms off down the tunnel, apparently Pogba wasn’t too far behind him either. If we have a true ‘down tools’ performance then I agree, this won’t go on much longer.
 
Judas said:
Nope. No sign of that whatsoever beyond VDB's sulky bench antics.
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Pogba didn't seem all too happy after Villareal. Ronaldo was seen sulking after the Everton game. Who knows what he is thinking, but I doubt they'd put up with this "go out and have some fun, lads" type of management for much longer.
 
NewGlory said:
So Pep was hired because he was known in Barca B, Ole was hired because he also managed our youth team (so arguably was also known) + he knocked out star-packed PSG in two legs of UCL, with a much weaker United.

Sure, there was emotional aspect to it, but if you remember - everybody and their mothers wanted him and I am not sure it was any more of a gamble than hiring Pep. The diffence is that Pep worked out and Ole - less so
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The fans wanted him, yes. But the club should not have been bullied into making a rash decision like hiring him permanently before the season was over. If they were just smart enough to have some patience and not give in to sentimentality mid-season then he would have been let go.

But this is the same club that rewarded him with a 3 year extension a few months ago, so they don't really think long term
 
Ronaldo, Bruno, Pogba, Sancho and Greenwood can't play together as a collective, under Solskjaer at least. Off the ball our attack gets bypassed with ease like it's an empty pitch. If we're going to play Ronaldo, Bruno and two of Sancho, Greenwood and Rashford, throw Pogba in there and that's a terrible defensive unit. The 2 in midfield behind those 4 have to be very disciplined positionally and do a good job of closing down to make up for the lack of it, so that should count Pogba out. The problem is the alternative Solskjaer sticks to is McFred, two unreliable players. For now I think Matic and DVB needs to be used a lot more often as they're technically better and more consistent, and will give the side a better balance.
 
NewGlory said:
So Pep was hired because he was known in Barca B, Ole was hired because he also managed our youth team (so arguably was also known) + he knocked out star-packed PSG in two legs of UCL, with a much weaker United.

Sure, there was emotional aspect to it, but if you remember - everybody and their mothers wanted him and I am not sure it was any more of a gamble than hiring Pep. The diffence is that Pep worked out and Ole - less so. There was no more science in either of the cases
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Pep was hired from the start as a permanent manager. Ole was hired as a caretaker. He was never meant to be the manager next season. He was just meant to manage till the end of the season till we hire a new manager and apparently a DOF next summer. He was just hired permanently because he started so well in the first 3 months. If there was any plan for Ole from the start, why didn't we just appoint him permanently from the get go ?

Whatever you look at how things panned out, appointing Ole permanently was just a knee jerk decision based on 3 months of good results and nothing else. Barca didn't hire Pep as a caretaker.
 
Won’t be sacking him before the run we have surely! Bring in a new guy who has to beat all the big guns straight away? Another disjointed performance with all that talent though.
 
Any club with ambition would have him gone tonight, although they probably wouldn’t have him to begin with.

A sad reflection on the state of the club. Show what their priorities are.
 
NewGlory said:
So Pep was hired because he was known in Barca B, Ole was hired because he also managed our youth team (so arguably was also known) + he knocked out star-packed PSG in two legs of UCL, with a much weaker United.

Sure, there was emotional aspect to it, but if you remember - everybody and their mothers wanted him and I am not sure it was any more of a gamble than hiring Pep. The diffence is that Pep worked out and Ole - less so. There was no more science in either of the cases
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Ultimately back then already the brand of football wasnt good enough especially the mast 10 games.

Beating PSG was fun, but and a great achievement but you must be very optimistic to suggest that knockout was showing what a genius Ole was and we werent incredibly lucky.
 
justboy68 said:
It's a really strange knock on effect of being blessed with SAF for so long. I doubt any other club has this same phenomenon pester its fanbase.

It's some extremely misguided notion of:
1) Giving manager time = success.
2) I will support manager no matter what, because of (1).
3) Others want to change manager which contradicts (1).
4) Therefore others want United to fail and are bad fans. I want United to succeed so am a good fan.

Of course the real lesson to be learned from SAF is:
1) SAF is an all-time great manager
2) Employing an all-time great manager = success.

If there's no all-time great manager to be had then you should swap and change and hire the best you can as and when the results call for it. Even most top coaches can only deliver results in short term bursts. It's the nature of the game. SAF was a total anomaly.
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The funny thing is that most of them have not known United changing managers like nappies between Sir Matt and SAF. SAF was not sacked because he had a top class track record before he came to United. Ole has none. It is mind boggling that one of the world's biggest club has a manager who has no clue how to manage at this level and never had managed a big club and has not won anything of note.
 
There's just times during the game where you see this huge area in the middle of the playing space where there's not a single United player. I wonder about that. There's literally zero players fitting into those spaces.
 
Flytan said:
The fans wanted him, yes. But the club should not have been bullied into making a rash decision like hiring him permanently before the season was over. If they were just smart enough to have some patience and not give in to sentimentality mid-season then he would have been let go.

But this is the same club that rewarded him with a 3 year extension a few months ago, so they don't really think long term
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Agree. We have inept club management and it will be very hard for any manager to succeed in these conditions. With his latest actions, Ole is showing that he himself is also not good enough, but the root problem is the club management. Unfortunately, it seems like even after Woodward's departure we are not gonna get anybody decent :(
 
Bobcat said:
I honestly thought we played better today, despite the dissapointing result

Still though, if you want to compete for the league you got to beat those midtable teams at home, and we're not doing that right now
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When we take only 5 points out of next 7 games, all hopes will be gone and painful reality will sink in.
 
Foxbatt said:
The funny thing is that most of them have not known United changing managers like nappies between Sir Matt and SAF. SAF was not sacked because he had a top class track record before he came to United. Ole has none. It is mind boggling that one of the world's biggest club has a manager who has no clue how to manage at this level and never had managed a big club and has not won anything of note.
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The crazy thing is, by attempting to draw similarities between OgS & SAF they’re doing the great man a disservice.
 
Title of this thread says "awfully coached" but most of the discussion is about Ole. Can we mention elephant in the room, please? Coaching is not the same as managing.

1. The fact that our starting midfield is McFred, an impotent clueless combo, is poor management. Manager picks them. Manager didn't buy replacement and did not sell them.
2. The fact that Luke Shaw was blindly running towards Doucouré, completely abandoning his position on the left side, and leaving Townsend alone for the goal, is horrible coaching. How can Luke Shaw, starting LB of United and England international be so clueless in positional defense? It's mortifying. Means our defense is not properly coached and drilled.

We can complain about Ole's skills all we want but look at our coaching staff - how much confidence do they give you?
 
NewGlory said:
Title of this thread says "awfully coached" but most of the discussion is about Ole. Can we mention elephant in the room, please? Coaching is not the same as managing.

1. The fact that our starting midfield is McFred, an impotent clueless combo, is poor management. Manager picks them. Manager didn't buy replacement and did not sell them.
2. The fact that Luke Shaw was blindly running towards Doucouré, completely abandoning his position on the left side, and leaving Townsend alone for the goal, is horrible coaching. How can Luke Shaw, starting LB of United and England international be so clueless in positional defense? It's mortifying. Means our defense is not properly coached and drilled.

We can complain about Ole's skills all we want but look at our coaching staff - how much confidence do they give you?
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They were selected by Ole.
 
Kill 'em all said:
He just relied on the individual brilliance of Bruno for so long. It's astonishing that after such a long time, we still don't have a style of play and still rely on players creating individual moments.
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This is what dragged us through that period. He’s never tactically had a clue but was often rescued by the individual brilliance ofBruno

We’re a team that for all intents and purposes has nothing more than a waving, smiling, mascot in charge
 
Harry190 said:
There's just times during the game where you see this huge area in the middle of the playing space where there's not a single United player. I wonder about that. There's literally zero players fitting into those spaces.
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Well, this has been typical in many games this season. On many occasions when we have the ball near the byline, there are acres of space vacant in the middle with no one available for the pass or approaching the ball. Bruno and Pogba/other CM are either too far up front or closer to the corner of the pitch. We seem to have no defined shape in our play mostly, especially in the buildup.
 
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justboy68 said:
It's a really strange knock on effect of being blessed with SAF for so long. I doubt any other club has this same phenomenon pester its fanbase.

It's some extremely misguided notion of:
1) Giving manager time = success.
2) I will support manager no matter what, because of (1).
3) Others want to change manager which contradicts (1).
4) Therefore others want United to fail and are bad fans. I want United to succeed so am a good fan.

Of course the real lesson to be learned from SAF is:
1) SAF is an all-time great manager
2) Employing an all-time great manager = success.

If there's no all-time great manager to be had then you should swap and change and hire the best you can as and when the results call for it. Even most top coaches can only deliver results in short term bursts. It's the nature of the game. SAF was a total anomaly.
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This. A lot of fans have been mixing up cause and effect.

SAF got time because he was a great manager. That doesn't mean that giving a manager time will make them great.
 
NewGlory said:
Agree. We have inept club management and it will be very hard for any manager to succeed in these conditions. With his latest actions, Ole is showing that he himself is also not good enough, but the root problem is the club management. Unfortunately, it seems like even after Woodward's departure we are not gonna get anybody decent :(
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If the root problem is the club hiring managers not suited or not capable of managing us then I'm in agreement but saying it would be very hard for any manager to succeed is a fallacy. Just because Mourinho (rightly) was refused Perisic and ( not so much) Maguire and Ole was refused (If we were ever in for him) Rice doesn't mean the club hierarchy are holding us back.

Look at the team thats been assembled for Ole. A top manager (insert your own name) would have this team flying without too much change and I find it very hard to understand and I'm not talking about you personally but in general, that people can't grasp this simple concept.

Ole for all his positiveness isn't up to going toe to toe with the best managers over the course of the season. I think there's very little doubt about that. We came second last season and there's no taking that away from Ole but I think most would agree that the results were a lot better than the performances which in no way sustainable for any period of time. It's also not a knee-jerk reaction from the last 4 games but for all of Ole tenure which has definitely had it's highs but by far outweighed by the lows at least performance wise.

You could blame the club hierarchy for putting Ole in this position but as far as holding Ole back I just can't see it.
 
Hugh Jass said:
How did Molde play under him when they won things?
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You mean the first time? His second spell they won nothing with him for 4 years. I'm not totally sure but one consistent theme in his managerial history has been his side shipping a lot of goals. Over his entire reign with Molde, the side conceded 296 goals over 241 games. At Cardiff, 57 were let in over the 30 matches in charge. Also followed him here too (we have conceded 162 over 142 matches).
 
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Rhyme Animal said:
When an Elite club employ a manager who has only managed at Cardiff and Molde, and failed miserably at one of those, this is as good as it gets tbh.

Surely this is completely obvious though?
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Get ready for the mental gymnastics from the 100s of Ole Iners coming at you (better known as the united versions of Ty)
 
I love Ole and despise the Glazers, but sooner or later they are going to say "We gave you Ronaldo, Maguire, Cavani, Snacho, Bruno, Telles & Verane to go with inheriting Pogba, Shaw, Martial, Rashford and De Gea etc why are you not getting anything out of this team?"

And you know, they'd be well within their right to ask this.
 
jasT1981 said:
I love Ole and despise the Glazers, but sooner or later they are going to say "We gave you Ronaldo, Maguire, Cavani, Snacho, Bruno, Telles & Verane to go with inheriting Pogba, Shaw, Martial, Rashford and De Gea etc why are you not getting anything out of this team?"

And you know, they'd be well within their right to ask this.
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More like we have by far the highest wage budget in the league, what's going on?
 
Don't know why he isn't sacked yet. We aren't getting Top4 , let alone Top2 or title. Such an Incompetent clueless manager. This is what happens when we make decisions emotionally.
 
For once we need to be proactive and not wait until the car wraps itself around a tree before we think about changing the driver
 
NewGlory said:
Not necessarily. Pep hadn't managed an
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bond19821982 said:
Don't know why he isn't sacked yet. We aren't getting Top4 , let alone Top2 or title. Such an Incompetent clueless manager. This is what happens when we make decisions emotionally.
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then we will go and beat Liverpool and everyone will be singing Ole is at the wheel till we meet another mid table club and we lose.
 
Brought in 2 world class players, and 1 with the potential to become one only to look worse than last season.

Ole doesn't know what to do with this squad, we need to make sure someone who knows what they're doing has a crack at it.

Criminal to waste the talent we now have.
 
Individual screw ups cost us yet again today. Nothing to do with coaching. Bruno’s corner was poor, Fred had another brain fart and only Shaw knows why he got sucked in towards the ball. Pretty sure no player was coached to screw up all those moments. Players have to take responsibility too
 
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