Tactically nondescript. There’s nothing there at all besides hoping everyone plays well. We play like we’re an international side who only meet up every two or three months
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
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Exactly. Individual brilliance or bust.
There are so many talented coaches in the world and he picked Carrick and fecking McKenna. He deserves the sack when he gets it.
watching a team of nobodies go toe to toe with a full strength Liverpool, made me think, what does Thomas Frank do to make his team play like that against a top team full of talent and managed by a top coach?
Even when we'd had enough of LVG, Moyes and Mourinho atleast you could see a gameplan even if we didn't like it.
Players were lost out there today with zero tactics. Players going rogue and trying to win their team the game with no cohesion or team play.
Ole and his team need to be sent packing but instead the club gave him a new contract. We're screwed until a proper management team come in.
You could give Moyes, LVG and Ole world class players and they still play the same shit football they always have done.
Only Jose I believe would have performed better with better players.
Jose with the current lineup challenges for the league.
Players were lost out there today with zero tactics. Players going rogue and trying to win their team the game with no cohesion or team play.
Ole and his team need to be sent packing but instead the club gave him a new contract. We're screwed until a proper management team come in.
You could give Moyes, LVG and Ole world class players and they still play the same shit football they always have done.
Only Jose I believe would have performed better with better players.
Jose with the current lineup challenges for the league.
A game plan?
Hands down the most depressing thing about Ole is the fact he manages like a caretaker, almost afraid to impose any semblance of a style of play or tactical ethos. He’s a youngish manager in the biggest club job in football. He should be buzzing with energy and new ideas and excited to show the world what he’s made of.
Instead we play some of the most insipid, directionless football going and he spends every game passively sitting on the bench looking like a kid who has been forced to visit his grandma with his parents and can’t wait to leave
What I see in Brentford is a whole team of players that pass and move for each other from the keeper to the striker taking the shot. It's so simple in theory but they actually put it into practice.
For 90 minutes today they did the right thing on the ball at all times and gave each other a chance.
On the other hand today we saw United not look like a team at any point in the 90 minutes. We never had a passage of play where 4 or 5 passes were made successfully. There didn't seem to be any plan of action at all and it resulted in players playing hero ball.
The management team shouldn't sleep tonight but they will. Because they're shit and they don't know any better. I don't know whose trainer performance was worse today - Uniteds management team or Rob McCracken in the AJ fight.
Both gameplans handcrafted from dogshit. I don't know how performances and gameplans can happen at the elite level of sports. You can lose.... but you shouldn't lose like we did today.
Ole and team OUT.
As harsh as it sounds, the likes of the Southampton, Brighton, Aston Villa & Brentford manager’s are much better at their jobs than our management. If any of those managers (coaches) joined our group of management, it would be a big upgrade.
Those managers generally get decent football and subsequent results through a high level modern drilled coaching of inferior players.
Those managers generally get decent football and subsequent results through a high level modern drilled coaching of inferior players.
A good manager creates a team that is more than the sum of its parts.
We are substantially less. Substantially.
I mean he pressed as much as anyone else out there. We just don't press properly as in we don't know how. We run around like headless chickens
Players like Lewa / Lukaku etc have no problem being part of a pressing system.
Ole just doesn't commit to the high press at all, it's just Bruno running around aimlessly without cutting off any passing lanes
He doesn't know how to deal with one too.
I'm sure he imagines he knows how. And then wonders why his players fail so often. Maybe if we buy another 200mil worth of midfielders he'd solve it.
This.
The squad at Utd should be challenging for the highest honours. Instead it’ll be a matter of trying to scrape Top 4 and squabbling within the fanbase about whether or not the manager should be excused again…
Meanwhile any viable managerial talent will go elsewhere as Utd dither.
no? jose's gameplan in his last season was to go behind at half time, throw on pogba, mata, and martial, and hope something works out in the 80th minute. before that it was to hope lukaku or rashford score quickly and then sit back and maybe score on the counter. you could see the total lack of a plan in any phase - defence, possession, attack - in some of the games vs bigger teams - city, liverpool, and chelsea.
moyes liked to start with valencia and young spamming crosses, then switching to januzaj and nani trying and failing to do combinations. there was no plan. after getting destroyed bycity and liverpool, he switched it around - start with nani and kagawa and januzaj - and then got smashed by everton.
none of them had any of the mythical "patterns of play" either.
LvG? Ok. There was a plan. didn't work well, and the team itself was poor, but fine.
The lack of width in our play is really hurting us. AWB is absolutely awful going forward, and rarely ever attempts to make a cross. With Ronaldo being as good as he is with headers, it ought to be asked why we aren't trying to put in more crosses. So many of our attacks which seem promising break down because everyone goes narrow or one of our forwards comes inside and attempts to shoot. It's simply unacceptable for Man Utd to have fullbacks (except for Shaw), who can barely contribute anything to the attack.
In addition, the more concerning thing for me was the lack of desire from the players - Villa players were far more committed to wining 50-50s and they won so many second balls. Ole loves to talk about the "team spirit and fight", but we were very passive for most of the time in these situations. None of the players seem to receive a bollocking from the touchline - I know maybe that's not Ole's style, but it's hard to see whether this is even being conveyed to the players in other avenues.
We're also absolutely awful at attacking set plays - over the years, we used to score a number of goals from free-kicks/corners in situations where we weren't playing particularly well. Everyone of our corners/free kicks amount to pretty much nothing these days. You really have to wonder whether this is even a focus in training.
In addition, the more concerning thing for me was the lack of desire from the players - Villa players were far more committed to wining 50-50s and they won so many second balls. Ole loves to talk about the "team spirit and fight", but we were very passive for most of the time in these situations. None of the players seem to receive a bollocking from the touchline - I know maybe that's not Ole's style, but it's hard to see whether this is even being conveyed to the players in other avenues.
We're also absolutely awful at attacking set plays - over the years, we used to score a number of goals from free-kicks/corners in situations where we weren't playing particularly well. Everyone of our corners/free kicks amount to pretty much nothing these days. You really have to wonder whether this is even a focus in training.
Watch Ole continue to play underperforming players despite saying he's picking them on merit since day 1.
From the moment he broke his promise on that, he should have been let go already.
Add the fact that even relegation standard teams look more tactically cohesive than us and it's just a terrible look on us.
From the moment he broke his promise on that, he should have been let go already.
Add the fact that even relegation standard teams look more tactically cohesive than us and it's just a terrible look on us.
It's a funny comment but very true England look a far more cohesive side compared to United and they are still slightly disjointed. Ole has lots to answer for.
To be fair when it comes to Brentford I think you'd need to take our entire structure DOFs, coaches, analytics team etc - we are not a club that is reliant on the head coach, as good as he is, being the sole reason for our success.
Lewa is an exception. He is extremely productive and proactive in a pressing system. He is one of a kind.
Ronaldo even in his peak physical days didn't work as hard as Lewa does now in applying pressure on the defensive line without the ball.
Lukaku doesn't work as hard as Lewa.
I agree with your last point. We've never pressed well even without Ronaldo. But we're not going to be able to press well with Ronaldo in the squad. You can't press well with him in the XI.
Pretty much.
It's the same story 3 years later.
Poor at bypassing the press and poor at initiating one.
IMO all a forward needs to do is cut off passing lanes when needed and apply pressure on the ball when all other options are cut off for the CB he's pressing. It doesn't involve a lot of needless running around.
Every single other member of the squad works fairly hard, so it shouldn't be a problem to have Ronaldo as part of a press.
You can definitely press with him, it's not ideal but it isn't like he's holding back Manchester United for being a modern football team.
It's a shame as the team looks good on paper, at least better than the last iterations of recent years, but seems a waste under the current manager. I could be wrong as the team can definitely play better and it might actually do it, regardless of the manager, as the season goes on and the players get used to each other .
Brentford, vs Liverpool had 5 players in the box for all there goals, our lot would've been camped on the edge if the area in a cluster of 3.
To be honest, I think, quite a lot of them see it. But quite a few are highly invested in the Ole-In/Ole-Out wars because in the beginning it certainly was a worthy war against some knobheads that were not only impatient but also missing respect. Unfortunately this turned into a self-propelling s**t-show where two sides find it difficult to find common ground.
I think it is telling, that a few people that were very active usually in this thread after matches are non-existent for now. Kindergarten
Yes, I think you’re right- there are clearly investments here that underpin the surface dispute. I guess I’m just amazed despite this that some are prepared to defend the ongoing lack of change, learning from failure and lack of improvements. When something is obviously not working, try something else. I’m just letting off a little steam is all.
Lewandolski more of than not is not the leader of Bayern pressing. Muller is often the one to chase shadow when the CBs passing between themselves and the GK. Lewan is often tasked to actually drop and man mark the midfielder that drop deepest to help the backline playing out from the back... This helps him conserve energy while Bayern still utilize him as part of the collective press/mark.
Energy level and fitness, I don't think Lewan is that much fresher than Ronaldo. It's more about the team set up.
Energy level and fitness, I don't think Lewan is that much fresher than Ronaldo. It's more about the team set up.
Eep, a little ambiguity made it seem like it was about Ole. Guess I should have inferred that it wasn’t. My bad.
And I agree top 4 isn’t the goal, but if the trend is upward, it’s hard to justify a sacking. This may well be the season where it becomes clear he’s taken us as far as he can, though. I’m sure that will cue a lot of told-you-so’s, but a good number of those will have been saying that for years.
Yeah good thing Ole's won so many trophies like those fellows did. Such a similar situation.Next up. Don't criticised Arteta as other managers aren't perfect either!
Bingo. A manager who values quality possession play in the buildup would not have signed AWB and refused to sign CM 4 years into his tenure. You always see managers come to a club and mould it to their ideas as early as they can. If wr haven't done it then it's clear that Ole does not value it as highly as people think. He's signed Daniel James a RW, VDB an attacking midfielder and two CFs in Ronaldo and Cavani in his time (I'm ignoring the signings we desperate needed). So of course he could have signed a CM to help build attacks.
Barring his first two games we've never really played good possesion footy under Ole anyway.
On this thread, there are two things. Ole is not inept at coaching /tactics but
- He is not comparable to his rivals and hence not good enough for our ambitions
- He is too old school which results in us playing 90s football in 2021, just miles worse in terms of quality because he's not actually that good.
I don't think the press would be fully optimal with Ronaldo in the squad.
You can definitely press with him, it's not ideal but it isn't like he's holding back Manchester United for being a modern football team.
It's a shame as the team looks good on paper, at least better than the last iterations of recent years, but seems a waste under the current manager. I could be wrong as the team can definitely play better and it might actually do it, regardless of the manager, as the season goes on and the players get used to each other .
I don't think a team is unable to press with Ronaldo.
I just don't think it'd be at a top level comparable with other top teams.
I could be wrong though.
Looking at some of the teams in Europe with the highest rate of final third pressing shows quite a few of them have one 'spare' attacker who doesn't contribute much to the press.
PSG and Monaco top the Ligue 1 stats this season, yet Neymar and Ben Yedder do far less than their share. PSG are getting a lot of their final third pressing from Ander Herrera and Hakimi. A big chunk of the best pressing teams seem to get a lot of success from aggressive full-backs and midfielders. We saw Chelsea really feck us up last season by exploting this to perfection.
Problem for us is, while you don't expect a 36 year old Ronaldo to be a pressing machine, you do and should expect more from a 21 year old Sancho, 23 year old Rashford and 19 year old Greenwood.
In fairness, Greenwood has improved a bit and is now right around league average for his position - but the other two are genuinely terrible out of possession.
Teamwide, our final third pressing is nearly non-existent. Going back to Herrera for PSG...he has 33 final third presses this season by himself. Fred has 15, McTominay has 5. Dan James, who left a month ago, still has more for us this season than Sancho and Martial combined.
When Ole took over as interim manager he won 10 or 11 matches in row. It could have been new manager effect. But he played 433 formation. Does anyone remember what team he played and what was our midfield. Surely now we have better players than when he took over so why the constant 4231 formation. It seems Ole is so afraid to lose that he doesn't want to attack.
I don't know since when year-on year-on improvement is the goal. We have improved our league position year on year and that's a fact. But if he would be taking us from 6-5-4 would that warrant him staying as well?
We still lose the most important knock-out matches every season, don't come close to challenging for the major trophies and play very poor football for large chunks of the season. Why is that made secundary to "year on year improvement".
There are also other things he has accomplished besides year on year improvement like the atmosphere around the club, the squad overhaul.
There was a passage of play yesterday where both Ronaldo and Greenwood were in the same inside right position trying to reach a pass made by one of their team mates and almost getting in each other's way.
A clear sign that the team doesn't know what it is supposed to do and where everyone else is supposed to be.
A clear sign that the team doesn't know what it is supposed to do and where everyone else is supposed to be.
Which is very disappointing given that this is something the new coach Eric Ramsay is supposed to be good at.
Last 2 games 55 shots
24 off target
21 Blocked
10 on target
NO GOALS.
24 off target
21 Blocked
10 on target
NO GOALS.
Who paid £50m for Wan Bissaka? Who chose to spend £70m last summer on players he had no intention of using in the first team? Who then spent another £70m on a winger he doesn't use? Ole is not a victim in all this as you'd like to portray, he made those decisions and in most instances paid out record fees whilst neglecting the midfield.
Can we really blame anyone besides the manager for the fact that we paid £50m for AWB? Let's be honest and dial down on the delusions, anyone could see the problems that would emerge with a limited footballer like him but he was getting praised for a cultural reboot when he brought AWB and Maguire in despite paying over the odds for what were limited footballers.
If Ole really felt that his midfielders were not good enough to play how he wants to play maybe he'd do more to integrate the £40m midfielder he has rotting away on the bench. I don't really rate VDB that much, I don't think he is savior but I can see that he has a shorter leash than Fred who has been atrocious in 2021 but still gets starts for us. The question Ole has to answer is why did we spend so much on him when the only competent midfielder we had was showing signs of being done at this level in 2019?
The truth is we are here because of the recruitment decisions made by Ole and his team. For him or his supporters to now try and hide behind the deficiencies he avoided solving is disingenuous to say the least.
Totally agree. The other main issue I have with the coaches and manager is the lack of passion during matches. Everyone just seems to be happy sitting down and watching the game especially when the team is playing poorly or getting dominated on the field. This proves there is no tactical coaching or game plan whatsoever. Any passionate manager should be constantly giving instructions or even shouting at players during a game. Very disappointed with Ole.