I’ve generally been behind Ole’s decisions on transfers. We’re better than we were when we took over and no manager gets every transfer right. But the midfield situation is a mess and that’s on the manager. We’ve spent enough money and had enough windows that there’s no excuse for failing to address this part of the field. It’s not like Martial where one minute he was firing on all cylinders and then suddenly he’s spent. McFred have been better in previous seasons but they’ve never looked like top level talents. And Matic was looking past it when Mourinho was in charge. Going into a fourth season in charge with no new additions in that area could cost us this season.
We are an awfully coached team
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I’ve generally been behind Ole’s decisions on transfers. We’re better than we were when we took over and no manager gets every transfer right. But the midfield situation is a mess and that’s on the manager. We’ve spent enough money and had enough windows that there’s no excuse for failing to address this part of the field. It’s not like Martial where one minute he was firing on all cylinders and then suddenly he’s spent. McFred have been better in previous seasons but they’ve never looked like top level talents. And Matic was looking past it when Mourinho was in charge. Going into a fourth season in charge with no new additions in that area could cost us this season.
What, Ole when he talks to his coaching staff?
Or, that pretty much no team is perfect.Yeah good thing Ole's won so many trophies like those fellows did. Such a similar situation.
Next up. Don't criticised Arteta as other managers aren't perfect either!
Well he does talk about pashun. Surely that's a positive
Moyes'esque numbers in terms of efficiency
There’s lots of takes on why we struggle with this. My take is that we’ve always struggled to have a controlled sense of possession throughout Ole’s tenure. That manifests itself as not being able to play out from the back or through a high press, not being able to dominate good passing teams in midfield and not being able to work the opposition when they try and play a low block. It all stems from the limited way we work and move the ball around the pitch, both individually and tactically.
When top teams play against a solid defence they don’t just hold on to the ball waiting for a gap. They pull and stretch the opposition in specific ways to make gaps open up and then work them. Even against Newcastle where we played pretty well, we struggled to make clear chances in the first half because our possession was aimless and just seemed to be about letting our players taking turns to try something, rather than executing a plan designed to penetrate a packed back line.
At least yesterday we went sending all goal kicks Pogba's way. Improvement.
Fairly obvious and simple. Spot on.
There were a few of us in here after the first West Ham match getting battered for saying the coaching is not up to scratch and the performances are exactly the same as last season- slow, individual stuff- Get it to Ronaldo’s feet...shoot, Pogba run through 2 or 3...shoot, Greenwood from anywhere...shoot...Fernandes...at some point the talent has an off day. We also got hammered for not jumping on the Jessy bandwagon and were told we had an agenda?!
Regardless of the result, that performance was diabolical from a tactical attacking perspective. Again we had no clue...but it could easily have been 1-0 to us thanks to a Lingard cracker...and the same old posters would be in here pointing at “goals scored” ...saying “ we are top of the league though...we must be good” “ eh...we finished 2nd last season”...
now in the cold light of day...are you guys seriously saying this game wasn’t an exact replica of most of our close wins last season? We are always one strike away from a bad result- always on the cusp of a draw or a victory...rarely ever convincing. Ole likes to pass that off by saying “the game is about fine margins”. With the squad we have, we should not be talking about fine margins so much.
Regardless of the result, that performance was diabolical from a tactical attacking perspective. Again we had no clue...but it could easily have been 1-0 to us thanks to a Lingard cracker...and the same old posters would be in here pointing at “goals scored” ...saying “ we are top of the league though...we must be good” “ eh...we finished 2nd last season”...
now in the cold light of day...are you guys seriously saying this game wasn’t an exact replica of most of our close wins last season? We are always one strike away from a bad result- always on the cusp of a draw or a victory...rarely ever convincing. Ole likes to pass that off by saying “the game is about fine margins”. With the squad we have, we should not be talking about fine margins so much.
People here are very outcome-based. We win = we are the best team in the world, regardless of how we played and if you criticize the performance you're an ABU or a WUM. I swear some don't even watch the games. It's clear to anyone who watches us regularly that we have some serious problems.
He and Ole post-sack will collaborate on a no-holds-barred hip-hop album, 81 Crosses to Bear, chronicling their pain while at United.
This is Ole’s 4th season and:
- He’s still talking about needing to sort out the issue whereby we start games horrifically slow
- He’s spent nearly £300m but hasn’t resolved the midfield issue
- Doesn’t appear to know how to dominate games and play like Man Utd unless we’re the underdog
- His talk of out-working, out-pressing the opposition has led to no real change
- He also came out on national TV saying he ‘couldn't fault the lads’ because they ‘had a go’
Great post. This furthers my point that Ole's brand of 'we have world class talents up front so inshallah and let's hope for the best' football belongs in the nineties and has no place at the highest level in the modern game.
Next up. Don't criticised Arteta as other managers aren't perfect either!
The constant comparisons to Fergie are both disrespectful and hilarious in equal measure.
Mourinho achieved more with a worse set of players when he was here. 2 trophies to 0; 7 more points when both finished second. So yes, Mourinho would achieve more with this set of players.
Thought this for a long time. Had plenty of arguments here with people essentially arguing that you can better judge a player’s performance by reading the stats printed in the following morning’s paper than the “eye test” (which turned out to mean: watching him play)
We finished second but with 7 more points than when we finished second last season under Ole. And yet Ole is a messiah to you and some other fans.Pretending that season was good and Jose only went into self sabotage mode after the summer
We played horrible football under Mourinho, but it was not worse than how we play under Ole. We got embarrassed against Sevilla in UCL, but at least we passed the group stage, something that Ole couldn’t do last season and probably won’t do again. And when we were in Europa (inherited by Van Gal), we actually won it quite comfortably.
The front four back then was Lukaku, Sanchez, Rashford and Lingard. Quite a bit worse than Ronaldo, Sancho, Bruno and Greenwood. We had Smalling, Bailly and Valencia in defense. We spent around 180m pounds to upgrade that to AWB, Maguire and Varane.
The main difference is that we were more successful under Mourinho, while we played the same low-quality football. But since then we have spent more than 400m and the only important player we have sold is Lukaku.
The problem is that we might well upgrade the midfield and RB this season. But then next excuse is gonna be that Ronaldo now is too old (37-38) years so we need Haaland or some other striker. Give Ole another year. Then we do that, but then we realize that Maguire is actually not that good so we need another CB.
At this stage it is pathetic. A never ending list of excuses. It is like all other managers have 2 world class players in every position. Only poor Ole has to deal with this mess of a team, the most expensive of all time.
Guardiola kind of does, but yes I agree. Ole has to pray the team steps up and Bruno + Ronaldo save his job. These next few games are defining imo. Continue to struggle and it's a slippery slope.
Regarding our football, we'll never be a modern side under Ole, that much has been obvious for years. Doesn't mean we can't be a reasonably successful one in terms of top 4 though, so let's hope.
Like I said earlier, the coaching culture at the club needs changing, fundamentally. From u9s to first team. No more this "united way" nonsene, no more "hit them on the break". We either adapt to the reality of today's game or continue going nowhere. Are there people in the club willing to do the change? Doesn't seem like it.
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Stopped reading when you bizarrely claimed I think Ole is a messiah? All you have to do is read a few posts from me just yesterday to know I don't think he's good enough long term and haven't thought he was for ages. Probably would have been an alright post without silly little remarks like that though.
He doesn’t have a useful striker.
Imagine our only striker being Gabriel Jesus. There would be mass protests here about the injustice that the Glazers did to Ole by not giving him a striker. Especially if our rivals had Ronaldo, Cavani, Rashford, Martial and Greenwood who can play in that position.
Imagine if Luke Shaw was in jail too.
Yes, everyone knows about their strikers. He's been crying for a few months. They have almost two first 11s though, they could field two teams in the PL and probably finish in the top 4 with both. No other team comes close to that squad depth.
This season some are already complaining about AWB's limitations o n the ball like it wasnt apparent in his first here when people were praising Ole for a cultural reboot when he signed AWB and Maguire.
There will always have an excuse, you are spot on about that, for example Ole has ignored the midfield for three years yet we are supposed to sympathize with him for having to play McFred when in the summer threads were made about the exact issue and Ole did nothing, he even blocked sales of unwanted players and frowned upon a few DMs more useful preferring to wait another year for the not so special Rice.
It will take us the best part of two seasons to get Rice and Haaland in, by then Bruno, Maguire and Varane will be approaching or past 30 then the new excuse will be he needs younger legs because the core of the team has aged.
The unknowns in Brentford easily progressed the ball against Liverpool's hardcore pressing, they pass and move, got the ball to dangerous areas and created chances.
Fred+ McTominay+Pogba+Fernandes should be able to dominate McGinn+D.Luiz+Ramsey
You talk as if Fred & McTominay can't play football, these guys are regular internationals ( which means other coaches besides ours also rate them), Fred is better than D.Luiz, McTominay is better than Ramsey, Fernandes is better than McGinn, Pogba is better than any midfielder they have.
Also AWB isn't limited, look at Brentford full backs, I know they play as WBs but they pass and cross just fine, AWB doesn't have to be Cafu level to play RB.
I mean, when I watch us play, there is virtually no movement, no combination, nothing, unless Bruno gets the ball, looks up for CR7, who then tries to move among 3 CBs who could easily counter him. We aren't doing the simple and basic things, and I can't explain why is that and I won't accept the "AWB and McFred are limited on the ball" reason.
I also noticed that our players play as if they are alone, Greenwood gets the ball and only tries to shoot, no combination with anyone, CR7 gets the ball and tries his usual overstep and shoot, our attackers don't combine at all.
And the striker is widely considered to be the most important position in a team. It is why they cost most.
Beside the striker, they have a 36 year old Fernandinho as the only cover for defensive midfielder. They have Scott Carson as cover for goalkeeper. And they have Zinchenko as their only left back. So no, they do not have 2 teams full of world class players.
Heck even in midfield they are barely better than us. Rodri is better than McFred, I grant you that. Gundogan is not better than Pogba. And De Bruyne is a bit better than Fernandez. But somehow, he has managed to make a system with those three players, who knows maybe because he is not playing De Bruyne 20m further from the others. And even when De Bruyne is injured, somehow he just slots a player there, be it Silva or Foden and they play identically.
Who would have thought that a manager who is actually good at his job could do this?!
They really don't. Their second string XI is clearly worse.
Their squad is severely overrated on here, because of Pep Guardiola. He makes them look better than they are.
I guarantee you if we swapped squads, there would be constant complaints here how Jesus is the only striker.
Hes been here for how many transfers windows and hasn't fixed the obvious shortcomings in our midfield that ever fan can see.
It was mostly a Matic-Herrera-Pogba midfield, which is the closest thing to a properly balanced midfield that we've used for years (probably since Fergie). One midfielder who sits back a fair bit and is decent at playing the ball around and protecting the defence. One midfield harrier, hunting and winning the ball and making it difficult for the opposition. One creative attacking midfielder, with the freedom to go mostly where he wants so he can help the midfield while still being a significant attacking threat himself. It wasn't perfect (Matic would need to be upgraded with a superior playmaker), but it was the closest we've had. Actually there was a brief Carrick-Herrera-Pogba combo in Mourinho's first season that also worked well, but Mourinho quickly ran an aging Carrick into the ground.
There's nothing wrong with 4231. We just don't have the midfielders capable of playing either 4231 or 433 very well. In Bruno and Pogba we have two players who can play the most attacking role in those formations. But the other two roles? None of Scott, Matic or Pogba are suitable in any kind of combination. All of them basically abandon half the duties. Scott basically hides when we have the ball and doesn't actually do that much defending. Matic spends half the match in the defence and only has the legs to play 45 minutes once a week. Pogba has good passing ability but that's about it. In theory Fred could play the harrier role (similar to Herrera did during that run after Ole's appointment, or that Kante does for Chelsea), but he would need the right partner next to him and who knows if he'd end up being good enough in a properly functioning midfield. The fact that he ends up trying to be our main deeper playmaker at the moment really says everything about how bad our current midfield balance is.
This is amusing given Ole has completely neglected the midfield and spent 50 million on the right back who creates problems in our buildup. Excuses galore for Ole.
Its because of Bruno who came in and got him the CL football that saved his job. He has also been our most important player over the one and half season that he played for us so I get why he wants to utilize a formation that gets the best out of him.
Hes built a fantastic squad and should get plaudits for it, but he, for some reason, hasn't improved midfield and deserves criticism for that as well.
It falls on him
This is where difference of opinion comes in, obviously. If he were to improve on last year it would almost surely mean trophies. If he’s improved 3 years in a row, why not trust a 4th?
I know the kind of reasons you’ll give as to why he should be done, so let’s just leave it at that.
An improvement on last season in theory could be another 2nd place finish without a title challenge, but winning the Europa League instead of losing in the final.
That would be a terrible season in my book. It'd be yet another failure to challenge for the Prem, and suffering another embarrassing group stage exit in the Champions League.
He’s still playing Mourinhos midfield, really. Fred, Matić, Pogba and to a certain degree McTominay. His only first choice addition is Bruno. Problem area.
He spent £40m on a backup for Fernandes who never plays instead of looking at a new central midfielder to replace some of the dross that currently still starts there. The lack of improvement in the midfield is on him.
Exactly. And he signed Dan Jame and spend on two young talents last summer. A manager who thought a CM was essentially would have made sure he did that within the 300 plus million of spending.
Agreed. This is one of the reasons why I’m not a fan of blanket statements about what constitutes success or failure.
Problem with Ole in my view is that he is not really flexible with his choices. This didn't start last summer, imagine in 2019 we spent £140m on Maguire and AWB, get me right, they have done reasonably well but I don't think either has gotten to any lengths to justify their fee since then. We still needed a midfielder then.
We then finished the 2019-20 season playing a 4-2-3-1 with Matic, Pogba and Bruno in midfield. How we then decided to push Bruno up high or how we thought it would be okay not to seek Matic's replacement is beyond me. After deciding not to pursue Sancho we still spent £70m on players that did nothing for the first team. It's not like you wouldn't be able to get a decent DM for half that price.
This summer we didn't look for one or prepared to sign one. We had players that interested other clubs, we could have sold Donny, James and Martial for decent fees and raised enough to sign a DM but Ole would rather wait for Rice.
That's three summers where we could have signed a DM but didn't because the manager is not flexible. This summer it could be argued that we didn't need Sancho at all but we still dropped £70m odd on him and left the midfield situation to fester.