We are an awfully coached team

#07 said:
I don't think anyone believes Ole is the second coming of Johann Cruyff, however we are not a poorly coached side. In fact, its fairly obvious that Ole recognises the shortcomings of this squad.

Our midfield options are not good enough. There are few top teams, anywhere in the world, who will look at our midfield two and want to copy it. Our options for the pivot are not Kimmich and Gortezka. To be honest, City and Liverpool have substitutes who would start for us.

That is a huge problem because it means we get very little ball progression from the middle.

Ole clearly knows this and so tries to ferry out attacks down the flanks. However, Wan-Bissaka's limitations as a footballer effectively mean we're a one legged stool. All our decent build up goes via Luke Shaw and when he gets injured, like he did at the end of 2019/20 and today, then we've got nothing. We're basically hoping, somehow, the ball gets forward to one of our attackers and they do something special.

A new manager is not going to solve this problem. Wan-Bissaka will still never be Cafu. Matic will still be past his sell by date. Fred and McTominay will never be gifted with the deep lying playmaking of Fernando Redondo. The same issues will surface. We will still have to rely on our full backs for ball progression and, though we have a few, the only one who is worth a damn at getting the ball forward is Shaw.

Do not be deceived by the fact our squad cost a lot. It has serious holes. Any coach coming in will see that too. We might get some marginal gains from new management. However, don't think that this squad is going to be serious unless we a) get a decent attacking right back and b) revamp our midfield so its capable of quick transitions.
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But really, he himself hasn't signed a DM. He signed Donny. He signed Amad, the other guy called who? And Sancho
He himself signed Bissaka.

He can't signed 11 world class players. He needs to perform with what he has.

All other managers dont have every other "Ronaldo" in every position to say Ole is being treated unfairly.

Its his team, he needs to perform now. He has spent over 400M.

Serious questions needs to be asked.

De Gea is now in supreme form like in Mourinho final days, pulling out best saves to keep the game alive.

If you are keen, De Gea is pulling us from jail each and each game. Without his save against Westham, where would we be in the standing?

Some very serious questions needs to be asked.

I'm a very staunch supporter of Ole but enough is enough with excuses. He needs to perform, he's sacking should be placed on the table now and if a turnround in, genuine performance, is not forthcoming then the board should call it quit.


By the way, the match going people how is the suport inside the stadium? Any noises?
 
Equal with the brilliance of Pep and Tuchel, and only one point behind the almighty Klopp, yet Solskjær needs to go immediately. Only he manages to lose points against mediocre teams such as Brentford or Southampton… or maybe not.

Peope need to get their act together. Fair enough we lost, but it was due to yet another huge VAR mistake - clear offside for their goal, and then a missed penalty and Greenwood going all narcissistic. Hardly down to patterns of play that. Yes we struggled at times, too much so, but guess what, Aston Villa have many great players and a competent manager; we aren’t going to dominate as if they were pub level.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
2nd place with 80 points? Followed by a period where the manager felt he wasn't backed and went into self-sabotage mode.

I get that Ole took over in the middle of a season that started disastrously, but the way some posters talk about it, you would think he brought us up from the Championship.
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Pretending that season was good and Jose only went into self sabotage mode after the summer :lol: lovely rewriting of history. We finished 2nd, god knows how, a sign of the shite level of the league that season. We were tumescent to watch, and the atmosphere was miserable. Anyone reminiscing positively about that season are weirdos.
 
As always, people need to look at bigger picture. We are going forward and there will be ups and downs. This year we are going to see what we are made of. It is just boring to see all those sack this, sack that when it comes to Solskjaer. Just look at the table. We are 1 point behind. 1. I don’t know what people want from him? 38 wins and every cup to be won?
 
Judas said:
Pretending that season was good and Jose only went into self sabotage mode after the summer :lol: lovely rewriting of history. We finished 2nd, god knows how, a sign of the shite level of the league that season. We were tumescent to watch, and the atmosphere was miserable. Anyone reminiscing positively about that season are weirdos.
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Problem with Mourinho was not points or how we played. It was his behavior towards everyone. And I say that, even if I like him.
 
I applaud the brave facing on things, with the 1 point off top, I really do.

But look at who we've played compared to Chelsea for instance.
Today was the type of game you have to win to be a force.

Ho hum. Wednesday we go. Very important game this one, as we could very easily slip into the dreaded Europa.
 
MichaelRed said:
You enjoy park the bus, long ball, kick & run, hit & hope football? We had that under Mourinho but only with better defensive structure and actual trophies. Does your love of Ole somehow delude you into thinking this is attacking, front-foot football?
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It’s Like talking to children
 
Lentwood said:
I do think we're currently trying to come to terms with a new, more aggressive style of play, and not doing it particularly well right now.

However, I just watched the Liverpool highlights, and one thing that struck me again is that we do seem to have to work incredibly hard for our goals. Liverpool scored three today, none of them could be attributed to "patterns of play" or stylish attacking football. One a nothing cross that the Brentford CB misjudges, one a nothing shot that takes a deflection from a Brentford defender stood ridiculously deep and one a mundane knock over the top that Salah manages to get on the end of due to a wonky defensive line.

Now, genuine question, what is it we are not doing that a team like Liverpool is doing? Are we too predictable? Do we not get enough bodies in the box? Do we not cross the ball early enough? Do we pass up too many opportunities to shoot, or are we too greedy?

We can talk about "patterns of play" and attacking overloads, but that wasn't how Liverpool scored any of their goals today. I thought this might be fixed with a proper CF, but we still seem to be having issue. Over 50 shots in our last two games and no goals to show for it. No real guilt edge chances either, more worringly. Why is that?

Edit: One of my theories is that we don't keep the ball well enough in midfield/defence to draw the opposition out. Our problems have been particularly bad at OT, where we typically face very deep, packed defences. We seem to rush the ball forward and hit a brick wall. The reason top sides have started focusing on ball-playing defenders, DMs ans GKs is that you can "tease" the opposition into pressing you high and then beat the press. We can't/don't do that. We rush it forward, trying impossible passes or crossing into packed penalty areas. Do we need to be more patient, and focus on drawing the opposition out?
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Getting more patient would certainly help. If we wouldn't go vertical all the time, when we could move the ball quick we could force mistakes in defensive organisation that we could make use of. But it is only one aspect. Our play does force mistakes as well, on a different way. And at the cost of us losing the ball most of the time when it doesn't work. A more possession based approach wouldn't have that flaw.

Rossa said:
Equal with the brilliance of Pep and Tuchel, and only one point behind the almighty Klopp, yet Solskjær needs to go immediately. Only he manages to lose points against mediocre teams such as Brentford or Southampton… or maybe not.

Peope need to get their act together. Fair enough we lost, but it was due to yet another huge VAR mistake - clear offside for their goal, and then a missed penalty and Greenwood going all narcissistic. Hardly down to patterns of play that. Yes we struggled at times, too much so, but guess what, Aston Villa have many great players and a competent manager; we aren’t going to dominate as if they were pub level.
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Oh come on. They had two great chances in first half as well, the "gift" from de gea and the cross to the far post before. Again, some of you shrug this result away like it isn't the third loss in four games. How comes, that Villa with their players manages to play that well against us? Are their players better than ours?
 
Judas said:
Pretending that season was good and Jose only went into self sabotage mode after the summer :lol: lovely rewriting of history. We finished 2nd, god knows how, a sign of the shite level of the league that season. We were tumescent to watch, and the atmosphere was miserable. Anyone reminiscing positively about that season are weirdos.
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But 2nd place with 74 points under Ole was a great achievement? My point is that you can't have it both ways.
 
Lentwood said:
I do think we're currently trying to come to terms with a new, more aggressive style of play, and not doing it particularly well right now.

However, I just watched the Liverpool highlights, and one thing that struck me again is that we do seem to have to work incredibly hard for our goals. Liverpool scored three today, none of them could be attributed to "patterns of play" or stylish attacking football. One a nothing cross that the Brentford CB misjudges, one a nothing shot that takes a deflection from a Brentford defender stood ridiculously deep and one a mundane knock over the top that Salah manages to get on the end of due to a wonky defensive line.

Now, genuine question, what is it we are not doing that a team like Liverpool is doing? Are we too predictable? Do we not get enough bodies in the box? Do we not cross the ball early enough? Do we pass up too many opportunities to shoot, or are we too greedy?

We can talk about "patterns of play" and attacking overloads, but that wasn't how Liverpool scored any of their goals today. I thought this might be fixed with a proper CF, but we still seem to be having issue. Over 50 shots in our last two games and no goals to show for it. No real guilt edge chances either, more worringly. Why is that?

Edit: One of my theories is that we don't keep the ball well enough in midfield/defence to draw the opposition out. Our problems have been particularly bad at OT, where we typically face very deep, packed defences. We seem to rush the ball forward and hit a brick wall. The reason top sides have started focusing on ball-playing defenders, DMs ans GKs is that you can "tease" the opposition into pressing you high and then beat the press. We can't/don't do that. We rush it forward, trying impossible passes or crossing into packed penalty areas. Do we need to be more patient, and focus on drawing the opposition out?
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It's a lot of thing really. Beside the goals, they always look threatening. They may not have full control of the game, but move the ball quickly with purpose when they have possession. This is the key IMO. Like the first goal, they didn't have overloading advantage of the box (just 1 attacker against all the defenders). In the build up, Henderson knows where to run, to make an advantage, and give him time once he receive the ball. It still requires quality of the cross, and everything, but you also have the feeling they practice this pattern of play well. The crosser of the ball knows where his teammate would be there to attack, so he can be quick to put the cross in. Perhaps this pace of play prevents opposition defenders from communicating with each other to better equipped in marking? In this situation, in the build up, they choose a better option in playing to Henderson on the wing, instead of trying to force it through the center. Maybe something this small, is huge in real-time pace of the game, whereas trying force thing through the center, would slow them down?

We used to be like this with SAF too. We seem to be able to score from simple play out of nowhere. Even if it feels a boring repeat, but teams couldn't work out to prevent it.
 
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90 + 5min said:
As always, people need to look at bigger picture. We are going forward and there will be ups and downs. This year we are going to see what we are made of. It is just boring to see all those sack this, sack that when it comes to Solskjaer. Just look at the table. We are 1 point behind. 1. I don’t know what people want from him? 38 wins and every cup to be won?
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Look at the fixtures we’ve played compared to them. We should be top.

The next 10 games are absolutely brutal. If we don’t seriously improve we could be out of the CL and the title challenge will be over before it began. Huge test for Ole.
 
Quality control
Rossa said:
Equal with the brilliance of Pep and Tuchel, and only one point behind the almighty Klopp, yet Solskjær needs to go immediately. Only he manages to lose points against mediocre teams such as Brentford or Southampton… or maybe not.

Peope need to get their act together. Fair enough we lost, but it was due to yet another huge VAR mistake - clear offside for their goal, and then a missed penalty and Greenwood going all narcissistic. Hardly down to patterns of play that. Yes we struggled at times, too much so, but guess what, Aston Villa have many great players and a competent manager; we aren’t going to dominate as if they were pub level.
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Well said. You guys should keep Ole at the club as long as possible.
 
NZT-One said:
Getting more patient would certainly help. If we wouldn't go vertical all the time, when we could move the ball quick we could force mistakes in defensive organisation that we could make use of. But it is only one aspect. Our play does force mistakes as well, on a different way. And at the cost of us losing the ball most of the time when it doesn't work. A more possession based approach wouldn't have that flaw.


Oh come on. They had two great chances in first half as well, the "gift" from de gea and the cross to the far post before. Again, some of you shrug this result away like it isn't the third loss in four games. How comes, that Villa with their players manages to play that well against us? Are their players better than ours?
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Brentford created plenty of chances against Liverpool. Do you think that you can go through matches without conceding chances? And that DdG was on Maguire. Playing drunk lately.
Remeber Liverpool’s home loss record last year? Sh£t happens. Most points conceded this year have been sown to referee/VAR mistakes and individual mistakes.
 
Rossa said:
Brentford created plenty of chances against Liverpool. Do you think that you can go through matches without conceding chances? And that DdG was on Maguire. Playing drunk lately.
Remeber Liverpool’s home loss record last year? Sh£t happens. Most points conceded this year have been sown to referee/VAR mistakes and individual mistakes.
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So keep doing what we are doing and hoping to be lucky in as many matches as possible as the way forward?

Calling it unlucky is such a ridiculous take... oh my word. So it seems "shit happened" in three out of last four matches. It could have been all four would Westham not fecked up their penalty in the last minutes of the game to take two points away from us. Referees do what they do, they effect team A today, team B tomorrow, sometimes negatively sometimes positively. It is part of the game.

But if you lose points because you miss a penalty in the last minute of the game, you shouldn't just look at the penalty as the problem. But also on the 89minutes before where you didn't manage to force anything.
 
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I love how the Ole fans want to have "individual brilliance" banned here, but they have no problem quoting "individual mistakes" whenever we lose. Lingard against Young Boys, now it's Greenwood turning into a narcissist.
 
Rossa said:
Equal with the brilliance of Pep and Tuchel, and only one point behind the almighty Klopp, yet Solskjær needs to go immediately. Only he manages to lose points against mediocre teams such as Brentford or Southampton… or maybe not.

Peope need to get their act together. Fair enough we lost, but it was due to yet another huge VAR mistake - clear offside for their goal, and then a missed penalty and Greenwood going all narcissistic. Hardly down to patterns of play that. Yes we struggled at times, too much so, but guess what, Aston Villa have many great players and a competent manager; we aren’t going to dominate as if they were pub level.
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We could do with one of those.
 
Rossa said:
Equal with the brilliance of Pep and Tuchel, and only one point behind the almighty Klopp, yet Solskjær needs to go immediately. Only he manages to lose points against mediocre teams such as Brentford or Southampton… or maybe not.
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Such ridiculous points throw the entire context out of the window. The reality is we are the only one among them who didn't face a single big team yet. Liverpool faced Chelsea. Chelsea faced Arsenal, City and Liverpool. City faced Arsenal, Leicester, Tottenham and Chelsea. What did we face? Aston Villa and West Ham?

They all had harder fixture list at the start of the season than us and yet they are all level on points with us. Now we are the one entering a shit period of all big games coming thick and fast.

So yeah, the league table means Jack shit at this point. City and Chelsea are in better position than us because they got past a tough fixture list without much losses while we are starting our one from next game.
 
90 + 5min said:
As always, people need to look at bigger picture. We are going forward and there will be ups and downs. This year we are going to see what we are made of. It is just boring to see all those sack this, sack that when it comes to Solskjaer. Just look at the table. We are 1 point behind. 1. I don’t know what people want from him? 38 wins and every cup to be won?
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This is his 4th season. 4th. Guy has one of the best sides in Europe and you are talking about ups and downs, progress and other shit?
You sound like him when he said "we gave it a go".
 
el3mel said:
Such ridiculous points throw the entire context out of the window. The reality is we are the only one among them who didn't face a single big team yet. Liverpool faced Chelsea. Chelsea faced Arsenal, City and Liverpool. City faced Arsenal, Leicester, Tottenham and Chelsea. What did we face? Aston Villa and West Ham?

They all had harder fixture list at the start of the season than us and yet they are all level on points with us. Now we are the one entering a shit period of all big games coming thick and fast.

So yeah, the league table means Jack shit at this point. City and Chelsea are in better position than us because they got past a tough fixture list without much losses while we are starting our one from next game.
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Solskjær has a pretty decent track record against the bigger teams. As proven this season, every team drops points against lower opposition. I think you, and many, are going way over board. in fact, most points dropped are not because of tactics but because of personal mistakes and terrible refereeing. Sure, that shouldn’t matter, but the same people who say that argue that the PL is the toughest league.

Chelsea faced Arsenal, btw? West Ham are currently a better team. Liverpool struggled against Brentford and dropped two points. City drew against Southampton.
 
Rossa said:
Solskjær has a pretty decent track record against the bigger teams. As proven this season, every team drops points against lower opposition. I think you, and many, are going way over board. in fact, most points dropped are not because of tactics but because of personal mistakes and terrible refereeing. Sure, that shouldn’t matter, but the same people who say that argue that the PL is the toughest league.

Chelsea faced Arsenal, btw? West Ham are currently a better team. Liverpool struggled against Brentford and dropped two points. City drew against Southampton.
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Another myth. We were 5th in top 6 mini table last year. Won 2 in 10 games. GD -3. Scored only 8 goals.
We were worse than Arsenal.
 
#07 said:
I don't think anyone believes Ole is the second coming of Johann Cruyff, however we are not a poorly coached side. In fact, its fairly obvious that Ole recognises the shortcomings of this squad.

Our midfield options are not good enough. There are few top teams, anywhere in the world, who will look at our midfield two and want to copy it. Our options for the pivot are not Kimmich and Gortezka. To be honest, City and Liverpool have substitutes who would start for us.

That is a huge problem because it means we get very little ball progression from the middle.

Ole clearly knows this and so tries to ferry out attacks down the flanks. However, Wan-Bissaka's limitations as a footballer effectively mean we're a one legged stool. All our decent build up goes via Luke Shaw and when he gets injured, like he did at the end of 2019/20 and today, then we've got nothing. We're basically hoping, somehow, the ball gets forward to one of our attackers and they do something special.

A new manager is not going to solve this problem. Wan-Bissaka will still never be Cafu. Matic will still be past his sell by date. Fred and McTominay will never be gifted with the deep lying playmaking of Fernando Redondo. The same issues will surface. We will still have to rely on our full backs for ball progression and, though we have a few, the only one who is worth a damn at getting the ball forward is Shaw.

Do not be deceived by the fact our squad cost a lot. It has serious holes. Any coach coming in will see that too. We might get some marginal gains from new management. However, don't think that this squad is going to be serious unless we a) get a decent attacking right back and b) revamp our midfield so its capable of quick transitions.
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Ole bought AWB.

Ole chose to spend 40 mil on DVB.

He chose not to bring in a midfielder.

That is all his fault.

There are plenty of sides with worse midfielders who move the ball better than we do.
 
Rossa said:
Solskjær has a pretty decent track record against the bigger teams. As proven this season, every team drops points against lower opposition. I think you, and many, are going way over board. in fact, most points dropped are not because of tactics but because of personal mistakes and terrible refereeing. Sure, that shouldn’t matter, but the same people who say that argue that the PL is the toughest league.

Chelsea faced Arsenal, btw? West Ham are currently a better team. Liverpool struggled against Brentford and dropped two points. City drew against Southampton.
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Yeah, except that's a myth. We only won 2 big games last season out of 10 in the league, even if you include Leicester among the big teams instead of Arsenal, we also didn't defeat them last season.

You can remove Arsenal as much as you want, the point still stands, Chelsea, Liverpool and City all faced big teams already and City and Chelsea in particular started the season with a tough fixture list, while we had the easiest start and are only level with them. Nothing to talk about.
 
Eriku said:
Yes, he has no clue, yet even most people who want him out would admit that he’s done a good job steadying the ship. He’s also year on year improved our standing in the league table.

He might be ready for the chop, but calling him clueless is just stupid.
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Are you talking about Ole or Wumminator, I was saying Wumminator is clueless.

Also he's done a decent job steadying the ship, this year on year improvement is nothing to hide behind. None of those seasons were good enough anyway, top 4 is not the goal.
 
Do people on both sides on purpose acting dumb, when people complain about our PERFORMANCE why other side trying to defend it with our fecking league position, i refuse to believe that people are on that level of deluded. Funny how 2 weeks ago, same bunch were mocking pattern of play brigade, no shame on either side.
 
el3mel said:
Yeah, except that's a myth. We only won 2 big games last season out of 10 in the league, even if you include Leicester among the big teams instead of Arsenal, we also didn't defeat them last season.

You can remove Arsenal as much as you want, the point still stands, Chelsea, Liverpool and City all faced big teams already and City and Chelsea in particular started the season with a tough fixture list, while we had the easiest start and are only level with them. Nothing to talk about.
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My bad. Thought it was better. Arsenal isn’t a big team anymore because they’ve been average for some time. Still stands to reason that the big teams concede against lesser teams. Liverpool have and so have City. All teams will. I think saying we need a new manager after this start is rubbish considering that we concede points due to personal mistakes and refereeing more than “coaching”. So there’s that to talk about. We may disagree, but it’s hardly black or white here.

btw, enjoy discussing with you, so nopersonal digs from me, at least not consciously.
 
kouroux said:
Ole's been at Utd long enough to not rectified the midfield situation. That alone shows his shortcomings more than anything else
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We need a progressive RB and a new midfielder now apparently to look competent.

Ole chose to buy AWB. He chose to not sign a midfielder. It's always '1 more player needed'. It's always the same excuses.

As if City, Chelsea and Liverpool are perfect teams. Pep won the league with Delph at LB. If Ole had the same squad, people on here would said he can't win until he has a top LB.

I'm surprised posters aren't talking about the need for a sweeper keeper yet. Maybe that's upcoming.
 
R'hllor said:
Do people on both sides on purpose acting dumb, when people complain about our PERFORMANCE why other side trying to defend it with our fecking league position, i refuse to believe that people are on that level of deluded. Funny how 2 weeks ago, same bunch were mocking pattern of play brigade, no shame on either side.
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I mean we finished 2nd under Jose, but it was obvious to anyone then, that Liverpool were the ones trending upwards and we were not.

The same posters then also thought we were in good shape.
 
Rossa said:
Good thing that was never labelled towards Ferguson. Or fixing a defense against Pep. How long dis that take? Same for Klopp btw.
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All of them won titles, so the point is rather moot, no?

Fergie neglected the midfield in his later years, but he still win the league twice. The two times he didn't, we lost out on 1 point and GD.

We made the CL final as well and lost vs the best club side ever arguably.

Pep has had his woes with the defense from a personnel standpoint, but he strolled to the league title with Delph at LB. Hardly ideal.
 
Rossa said:
Good thing that was never labelled towards Ferguson. Or fixing a defense against Pep. How long dis that take? Same for Klopp btw.
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Wash your mouth with soap, look at who you're mentioning and look at Ole. All 3 of them won trophies and have earned patience from their respective fans.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
This is his 4th season. 4th. Guy has one of the best sides in Europe and you are talking about ups and downs, progress and other shit?
You sound like him when he said "we gave it a go".
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Wait I trolled in the post match thread guessing his comments, saying stuff like that, but that's actually what he said today? That's hilarious.
 
Majima said:
Wait I trolled in the post match thread guessing his comments, saying stuff like that, but that's actually what he said today? That's hilarious.
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Nah, that is what he said after WH. Today he blamed VAR. Good old blame the ref way.
 
One thing I want to add when posters say that Ole is not at fault if players on the pitch can’t make simple passes or give possession cheaply then I doubt your understanding of football. These mistakes happen when players don’t have clear ideas on the pitch like where to be where to move where to pass. When all these things are not drilled on the training ground then this kind of accidental football happen where players take up each other’s position or leaving gaps or not able to make themselves available in the right areas to relieve the pressure from opposition resulting in turnover after turnover in possession which we see every week against every team we play.

So when we see Pogba holding the ball for too long or Fred giving away the ball freely or Bruno too high and leaving a huge gap in the middle then it is the consequence of our non existent team play or poorly drilled tactics. Honestly, anyone who have played decent amount of football understand this thing. I see posters complain again and again about players making these mistakes without even comprehending that how such basic things can happen only to us with players like we have ? But they still lay the blame on the players and say he is shit and he is crap and we need Rice when most of the stuff can be rectified just on the training ground. Watch Rice come and see no change.
 
Can't stand this anymore, we have a very strong team but we play like we don't have a team to play any football at all. Like Ole but this is really poor
 
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