We are an awfully coached team

captaincantona said:
Oh lord...I do not think I have ever heard a football fan...ever...say that Pep’s Barcelona, with Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and Busquets, telepathically, routinely and majestically playing teams completely off the park for 90 minutes, and crediting their coach saying his training and philosophy expanded their very understanding of football ...was possession for possession sake? Their is being bias and then there is blind hate for city perhaps...but that’s just a bonkers statement for anyone with eyes! Fuk shots on target...why are these stats rolled out? You can have a beautiful, skilful build up and the ball gets headed an inch past the post. Doesn’t change that fact that as a fan, you saw a passage of excellent and exciting football. City battered Southampton and more often then not they will win those games as they did on their mad run last season. They play the odds. They play how they play creating chance after chance and if on an off day they don’t score and draw or lose, that’s the price paid for seeing that particular style of football every week. Any city fan who complains is a clown. We are far less consistent then city in terms of results, general performance levels and dominating/creating chances against lesser teams. So we might just focus on ourselves before throwing shit at other very fuking good football teams.


Your post has the feel of the cringeworthy rantings of a man who looks at some Instagram models pictures all day, knows he ain’t got a chance, so postS on her page that he actually doesn’t find skin tight leggings attractive!
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I don't have to agree with you just like you don't have to agree with me. Your post is a perfect example of what I was talking about. That's some good stuff. I can feel your bitterness. Post is full of emotion. And to end it off ad hominem attacks.

"Felix Magath claims Pep Guardiola would have won the Champions League with Bayern Munich or Manchester City if it weren’t for his “boring style” of football.

Guardiola claimed the second of his two Champions League gongs in 2011, but Magath claims “Messi won the titles”.

"Without Messi, this system has never worked as successfully for Guardiola, otherwise he would have won the Champions League with Bayern or Manchester City long ago.

Tiki-taka only works if you have players who are technically superior to their opponents. For the spectator, holding the ball, as I call it, is just boring and a top team doesn’t really need it.""
 
Kelly15 said:
I don't have to agree with you just like you don't have to agree with me. Your post is a perfect example of what I was talking about. That's some good stuff. I can feel your bitterness. Post is full of emotion. And to end it off ad hominem attacks.

"Felix Magath claims Pep Guardiola would have won the Champions League with Bayern Munich or Manchester City if it weren’t for his “boring style” of football.

Guardiola claimed the second of his two Champions League gongs in 2011, but Magath claims “Messi won the titles”.

"Without Messi, this system has never worked as successfully for Guardiola, otherwise he would have won the Champions League with Bayern or Manchester City long ago.

Tiki-taka only works if you have players who are technically superior to their opponents. For the spectator, holding the ball, as I call it, is just boring and a top team doesn’t really need it.""
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Felix fecking Magath calling someone else's football boring is peak levels irony.
 
Siorac said:
Felix fecking Magath calling someone else's football boring is peak levels irony.
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Are we going to pretend that he didn't win the Bundesliga with Wolfsburg playing great football? Is his stint at Fulham his defining career part?
 
MiceOnMeth said:
ah Grafite.. thats a name i haven't heard in a while. What was the story with him? had 1 sensational season with Wolfsburg and that was that?
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More or less! He only played 5 seasons in Europe - left Wolfsburg for a nice paycheque in the Middle East before retiring to Brazil.
 
We can sign 50 more players but it won’t change the fact that we are huffing & puffing for vast majority of games and our football is nauseating to watch
 
Surely a team as big as United practice transitions? It really doesn't look like we confident to pass quickly, every player 2-3 touches then a sideways/backwards but as soon as we play a quick transition to Greenwood suddenly we look amazing, it's baffling!
 
Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell said:
The Ole Out lot refuse to acknowledge the progress the club has made since the dark days of moyes/van gaal/mourinho.

If we win the league this year they'll say it was nothing to do with Ole.
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Why were they dark days? We win trophies with theses managers in the same time as OGS has been here. OGS has won nothing, no tactics, lousy subs, we rely on individual moments of brilliance to win matches.
 
Eplel said:
Are we going to pretend that he didn't win the Bundesliga with Wolfsburg playing great football? Is his stint at Fulham his defining career part?
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More his stint at Bayern. I didn't even remember he was at Fulham.

I'm being unfair to him, yes, but he's dour as feck and his coaching philosophy is 'make them run 30 kms uphill every day'
 
I genuinely believe if we had one player, one player that could stay out wide on the left, and dribble down to the byline and get a ball in, we'd genuinely be a top top team. It's the one flaw we have, way too narrow and we don't attack the flanks and stretch play the way City does. It's one of the most effective ways to break down compact defences. There's Ronaldo and Greenwood in the box that can finish, we just need to get to the byline and get balls into the box.

Someone like Saint-Maximin would be ideal, but I'd even take someone like Adama Traore.
 
marktan said:
I genuinely believe if we had one player, one player that could stay out wide on the left, and dribble down to the byline and get a ball in, we'd genuinely be a top top team. It's the one flaw we have, way too narrow and we don't attack the flanks and stretch play the way City does. It's one of the most effective ways to break down compact defences. There's Ronaldo and Greenwood in the box that can finish, we just need to get to the byline and get balls into the box.

Someone like Saint-Maximin would be ideal, but I'd even take someone like Adama Traore.
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We spent 70m on Sancho. Plus have an £100m plus player in Rashford coming back. Moreover, a highly rated young wide player in Armand. What we lack is proper coaching. We have an amazing team. If we get rice next summer, I don’t think no one will have a better team than us.
 
NZT-One said:
While understanding that sentiment, I think it is to one-sided. I mean, apart from Fergie, how often does it happen, that somebody is going to stay for so long having so much success? Wenger won his first titles in his 2nd year at the Gunners. So all in all, I know, the Fergie story is one of the greatest in sports but how realistic is it to expect that the same thing happens again? And that the only deciding factor was in fact the time?

I also don't think that teams like Real Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern are soulless husks. It feels like you try to construct a world, where we can "do the right thing" and remain with our soul intact plus successful. Doesn't feel realistic to me at all. Again, the results have been really good and I am not for sacking him just to get rid because he is "soooo bad" but for me, it needs to be noted that he didn't show too many indicators that he can be one of the great managers. He did a very good job recruiting and creating an atmosphere, but I think, it is at least debatable if these are the most important aspects for being a manager these days. Because who knows, if your Fergie story would even be applicable these days.
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It's not just sentimentality. It also makes sense.
What's the point in backing a manager to rebuild the team and just as he gets it close to the way he wants it you clear him out and start again with another manager?
If he was underperforming I would understand but he's been doing really well with the squads at his disposal each season.
Everyone agrees he's hugely improved the squad so be thankful for that and let's back him.
 
We're an absolute mess tactically at the moment.

Thank feck we have such great players up front.
 
marktan said:
I genuinely believe if we had one player, one player that could stay out wide on the left, and dribble down to the byline and get a ball in, we'd genuinely be a top top team. It's the one flaw we have, way too narrow and we don't attack the flanks and stretch play the way City does. It's one of the most effective ways to break down compact defences. There's Ronaldo and Greenwood in the box that can finish, we just need to get to the byline and get balls into the box.

Someone like Saint-Maximin would be ideal, but I'd even take someone like Adama Traore.
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Well that's what Sancho is supposed to be. The dribbler. As well as Greenwood on the other side. Martial should be able to do it otherwise get rid.

We need dribblers. Every good side needs dribblers that can carry the ball forward. You can't just pass it forward all the time.
 
Amadaeus said:
We spent 70m on Sancho. Plus have an £100m plus player in Rashford com back. What we lack is proper coaching. We have an amazing team. If we get rice next summer, I don’t think no one will have a better team than us.
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Neither of them are great dribblers. Sancho's technically good on the ball but slow so doesn't take players on from a standing start, whereas Rashford's the opposite in that he's fast but doesn't have great close dribbling. Both are better passers.
It's not going to happen because as you say we've spent £70m on Sancho, but it's the biggest difference for me between the SAF era and the post-SAF eras. Our teams always had pace out wide before. Greenwood's good on the ball but he comes narrow often to try and score.
 
Adisa said:
Are we?
We simply don't know how to control games
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Yes. We're dominating possession and only went behind because of a hideous deflected goal. We've had the most shots on target in the first half by any team this season, we've hit the post and had Ronaldo clean through on goal. Odd to describe it any other way.
 
Forgetting the actual results so far this season (positive or negative and including today's, which may well still end up being a win for us), the way we actually play has the same consistent problems directly related to our coaching.

In basic terms our players don't take up the right positions in relation to each other consistently enough for us to have as much control as we should, as our players too often receive the ball in positions where they're isolated and immediately under pressure when they receive the ball. That combined with pre-planned sequences of play seemingly not being as well formed as they could be makes our play slow.

Where we want our players to be able to play quick one and two touch football with teammates in good positions and making almost instaneous pre-drilled movements in relation to each other, we instead get players having to take multiple touches before they can find teammates and delayed, reactive movements in relation to each other.

And then those problems also translate to our ability to defend and deal with transitions too. We're just too loose and scrappy positionally.
 
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There can't be any complaints so far today. Shape has looked excellent, we have created plenty of chances and their goal was another spawny deflection.

West Ham away is going to be tricky this season. Even if we get a point, i'm more encouraged by us playing well and being unlucky as opposed to lucky wins like the Wolves game
 
ivaldo said:
Yes. We're dominating possession and only went behind only because of a hideous deflected goal. We've had the shots on target in the first half by any team this season, we've hit the post and we had already put Ronaldo clean through. Odd to describe it any other way.
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Agreed, played well today bar a shaky 5/10mins after the Maguire mistake.
 
Lentwood said:
There can't be any complaints so far today. Shape has looked excellent, we have created plenty of chances and their goal was another spawny deflection.

West Ham away is going to be tricky this season. Even if we get a point, i'm more encouraged by us playing well and being unlucky as opposed to lucky wins like the Wolves game
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Bingo.
 
We can attack, or we can defend. We can do either as well as anybody. Switching between the two seems to completely confound us. Why don't our players know where to be when we lose the ball? It takes us forever to get our shape back.
 
Olecurls99 said:
It's not just sentimentality. It also makes sense.
What's the point in backing a manager to rebuild the team and just as he gets it close to the way he wants it you clear him out and start again with another manager?
If he was underperforming I would understand but he's been doing really well with the squads at his disposal each season.
Everyone agrees he's hugely improved the squad so be thankful for that and let's back him.
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It is only sense if you accept the premise that the only way to improve the team is by adding better players to it. I have no issue to agree, that we have a way better team at our disposal now but the football is still more or less the same. It might look different in a few occasions because opponents have realized we are quite good on counters so they try to avoid them.

On a general note: I think, we are doing quite fine. Westham isn't a pushover, based on that we look the better team. Of course it would be great to stop their play more effectively, potentially by having more control of the ball but it seems like that isn't what we are actually try to go for. Therefor I don't see it as very fair to say we can't do something today if we aren't really sure that is what we are trying to do.

Think Moyes has setup the team quite well, but our teams seems to be sharp as well. Having McTominay back is good.
 
Adisa said:
Are we?
We simply don't know how to control games
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We have played well since falling behind.

Not a surprise we can't control games given so many of our players struggle in finishing 5 yard passes.
 
11101 said:
We can attack, or we can defend. We can do either as well as anybody. Switching between the two seems to completely confound us. Why don't our players know where to be when we lose the ball? It takes us forever to get our shape back.
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Our central midfield is the issue. Can't link/hold our team together
 
Fred is just not up to it and Pogba is having a poor second half.
 
11101 said:
We can attack, or we can defend. We can do either as well as anybody. Switching between the two seems to completely confound us. Why don't our players know where to be when we lose the ball? It takes us forever to get our shape back.
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If only the glazers would spend millions educating Ole on tactics, in game mgmt and being bold with his mentality.
 
I am in the camp who think our coaching is not good enough but then part of me thinks it is not easy to coach 10 vs 12. That's what playing Fred means. Now, why do we still play Fred is another topic.
 
sullydnl said:
Forgetting the actual results so far this season (positive or negative and including today's, which may well still end up being a win for us), the way we actually play has the same consistent problems directly related to our coaching.

In basic terms our players don't take up the right positions in relation to each other consistently enough for us to have as much control as we should, as our players too often receive the ball in positions where they're isolated and immediately under pressure when the receive the ball. That combined with pre-planned sequences of play seemingly not being as well formed as they could be makes our play slow.

Where we want our players to be able to play quick one and two touch football with teammates in good positions and making almost instaneous pre-drilled movements in relation to each other, we instead get players having to take multiple touches before they can find teammates and delayed, reactive movements in relation to each other.

And then those problems also translate to our ability to defend and deal with transitions too. We're just too lose and scrappy positionally.
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Such a good post, hopefully gets recognition after the game as well.

The Man Himself said:
I am in the camp who think our coaching is not good enough but then part of me thinks it is not easy to coach 10 vs 12. That's what playing Fred means. Now, why do we still play Fred is another topic.
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Completely disagree. At least Fred doesn't hide. Get rid of him for Matic or Donny and we get eaten behind in this game. Not every player needs to have Pogbas talent, you need workrate as well. And while Fred gave a few balls away he has been active, progressive and solid as well.
 
It takes 2 passes to go from our attack to them being one on one with our defenders. Great teams are compact and try to reduce the open space but we are the opposite
 
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