Sucked into the big space in the middle of our goal? Unfortunately, he can't predict where the ball is going to go. Someone has to cover that area. I find this retrospective crticism doesn't really hold up when you think it through logically. Yes, Welbeck decided to attack the back post, but there is no possible way of knowing where he will go at the time. So, the CB covers the space in the middle of the goal and the fullback tucks in and defends the back post. It's not just that AWB lost his duel, but he didn't nothing to effect Welbecks header. How often did we see Neville get beneath an attacker to spoil their attempts? If he failed to do that, it wouldn't be the CBs fault, it would be Neville's.
2
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Clean sheets
- 17
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 4
- Status
Sure, I catch your drift, but if we can't play Victor to the rest of the season because of the issue you mentioned, it's Williams or Matić to fill the gap as Tuanzebe is totally out of match rhythm, while Bailly needs to be transformed into Robocop.
The reality of situation is, we have no choice but to believe in Victor... so let's believe with other believers before they're burn us for witchcraft.
Not his best game but still pretty solid. Seems to have moved more towards the role he has for Sweden as a playmaker, but struggled to find anyone to pass. About the goal, obviously impossible to know if he could have done more to stop that cross.
No we don’t concede an alarming number of goals this way. Could any of you even remember the 2-3 last times it happened?
No we don’t concede an alarming number of goals this way. Could any of you even remember the 2-3 last times it happened?
Its an obvious point that says a ball going over someones head does not mean they were out of position. Notice you ignored the fact he had to cover a near post run
Without having video highlights of the goals we’ve conceded no. I’d be amazed if we haven’t conceded quite a few by someone running off AWB though.
We have conceded quite a few
Read my previous post and watch the clip. After doing the good work to get into position, Lindelof's inexplicable look over his shoulder just before the cross came in was his downfall.
Same mistake as AWB. Got there but then turned off at the last mili-second.
Lindelof jumping under the ball is not a new thing. I don't know why people are making it out like it's a one off mistake. It's clear as day.
Could be wrong, but I think this was the ninth goal conceded in open play in Lindelofs 22 PL games as CB this season. Somehow people think we concede heaps of goals because if counters, crosses, ...you name it. But we don’t. Our defence is very solid and today we got another win.
Thats not a mistake. He is checking if AWB has the man or not. Which he should do because if AWB doesnt then he has to adjust. The cross was deeper than where Lindelof was simple as that.
Add to that AWB should beat Wellbeck to the ball which is another story
Totally agree mate.
Lindelof has an issue dealing with high balls into the box. He needs to work on this as teams know of it and he gets targeted in those areas/channels.
I think the mistake is more on AWB. But the issue with Lindelof is that he's too comfortable defending zonally, and doesn't necessarily go looking for the danger proactively.
The danger could have been exactly where he was where no other player was covering. Instead the goal came from exactly where another player had covered. If anyone wasnt alert to danger it was AWB
I think this is somewhat true but to me we are targetted more at deep crosses from right wing. Which is more targetting AWB poor concentration and ariel ability.
Space doesn't score goals. It's somewhat similar to the Sevilla goal where you need to open up your body shape so you aren't overcommitted either way.
We'll have to disagree to agree.
First off you don't readjust and expect a team mate to cover behind you, especially as the danger has yet to be dealt with.
And secondly, you don't rest your shoulders and take a stutter step when trying to defend a first time ball into the box at the near post.
It ended at the back post but it should have been dealt with near post.
@Eugenius put it perfectly. Lindelof does everything right zonally (position wise) but he failed to deal with it proactively. Same with AWB.
Almost exact same scenario as against Sevilla last year. Both in 'good' positions but both just switched off at the last second.
Yes and Sevilla in the next game vs Inter De Jong scores from the near post run.
If Maguire isnt past the near post then Lindelof can go and help AWB. If he goes in this case, Wellbeck just makes the near post run and were done.
Positionally we are actually in good positon not to concede. AWB just didnt do his job
Very good today, no blame for the goal. Purely AWB not being aggressive enough on Welbeck.
He didnt readjust and expect his team mate to cover. He checked if his teammate had the danger from backpost since he was already covering near and center. Its standard basic defending. And his teammate did have Wellbeck so he went to attack the ball, which he missed as the cross was deeper towards where AWB was. Who did feck all
Oh yeah AWB has plenty to work on I agree but he's 23 and undoubtedly still learning. it's a worry for me though when one of our first choice CBs is still making these errors. Basic errors.
Lindelof is 26 now so not a kid.
Was targeted today. In fairness to him he did well after Welbeck's goal. The problem is, everyone knows, he will f-k up at least once a game. That's why every middling team we play punts it into our right hand channel. Over the course of 90 minutes Lindelof will give you a chance at an aerial, if you can capitalise we're up the creek without a paddle.
The goal was on Lindelof in my opinion.
Other than that he had a good game.
Other than that he had a good game.
Thought he was really good today. Excellent in the air.
Neither seem to be particularly aggressive. AWB lacks positionally what Lindelof is good at but both are often caught flat footed as opposed to being on the balls of their feet ready for action.
I dont see any error from him there. Also 23 and you dont attack a cross with a striker standing right next to you. This is basic stuff and something he has been doing consistently since he has been here. Being 23 doesn't absolve him
You're the one justifying his look over the shoulder by saying he needs to look so he can readjust (if required). I'm saying he shouldn't have looked in the first place because he should have been concentrating on heading the ball, which should have been cleared at the near post.
You're right, it is standard basic defending. He was covering the near post and failed because he misjudged the flight of the ball as he wasn't proactive enough to reach it. I identified he failed because I believe he took an unneccesary glance over his shoulder.
No one is denying AWB fecked up. Some of us are just saying it was a fundamental error on Lindelof's behalf where once again he jumps under the ball.
What's the point in covering space if you're not commited and can actually affect the outcome?
I haven't absolved anyone but this the the Lindelof thread. My point is Victor shouldn't be making the same mistakes as our 23 year old full back. He's been at the club a while now and should be used to the PL. He's 26 and at times you feel like you need to shake him and tell him to wake up.
I know there was arguably a foul in it but that goal we conceded against WBA was another example. Yes Shaw shouldn't have let the cross in but Lindelof has to be expecting that it comes in and the tussle with the CF.
So now he should clear a ball at the near post when it was crossed to the far post and Maguire is ahead of the near post. Right ok
Im simply saying he made no mistake there in my opinion
I think his position is off for the goal we conceded. But other than that, he somehow turned up to be awesome in the rest of the game.
How can he be good when he was the clear cause of a goal?
I think he should do better with the cross tonight. Irrespective of if the cross should come in, or AWB losing his man, Lindelof should do better. Same against Sevilla, WBA and a number of other games. It's definitely a problem with him. As I say to me he always looks like he's positioned well but not aggressive/front foot enough/too slow to react. Don't know why this is.
I don't hate Victor. Thought he was great against city and AC away. He usually is good when teams want to play it to feet and in between though. It's predominantly when we play teams who mix it up in the air I don't trust him.
No white text?
Mate you're having a mare. Go watch the clip again and watch only Lindelof all the way:
If anything we've all been saying it wrong. It ended up centre of the goal.
So by your logic Maguire covered the near post, Lindelof covered no man's land and AWB tucked in all the way in the centre of the goal i.e the centre back's space and failed to deal with his guy right at the penalty spot.
What was Lindelof doing then?
Just before the cross came in, he was almost on his back foot (i.e not prepared for a first time cross) not covering anyone, had the luxury of looking over his shoulder twice and didn't reach a ball that was there to won.
No one is doubting AWB made a mess. To absolve Lindelof though, who has history of jumping under a ball is a reach.
Did they score a second?
Maguire didnt cover the near post. He is way beyond it. I said Lindelof covered near and middle and AWB covers any run coming from back post (which is where Wellbeck comes from).
Basically if Wellbeck makes a dart to towards near post and scores from there (the cross would he different) then Lindelof is at fault
At the point of the cross coming in there was 3 places where we could concede. Near post middle and far post. Lindelof is covering then near and beyond towards middle and AWB has the man. Lindelof checks this before the cross is made.
Lets say AWB was no where then Lindelof has to adjust his position which is why he checks
WBA I agree. Not sure about this one I feel the cross is too high for where he is. Especially (as the case was with Sevilla) Maguire has gone way beyond the near post leaving Lindelof to cover 2 zones. If the CBs are not slightly out of position Lindelof is a bit further back and clears the cross. But in my opinion his starting positon is correct based on where eveyrone else was
I think his positioning is generally very good but as I say he seems to just react in situations poorly. Not sure if it's lack of aggression or he's just slow to move to the ball.
Wait, do people want Lindelöf to stand on top of Wan-Bissaka?
If he's covering the near post then he should have cleared it regardless of what run Welbeck makes
You're giving a lot of credit to Lindelof believing he's made all those calculations in his head just as a first time cross comes in. Actually I wouldn't put it past him as Lindelof is more of a hypothetical/zonal defender instead of proactively dealing with the problem first. It's exactly why he messed up because instead of adjusting his body to deal with the cross, he's more concerned about everything else.
Watch the clip again; he's defending empty space, relaxes his shoulder and is on his heels. He's not prepared for an aerial ball, which again he has lots of history with.
If this was Maguire, who 'missed' the header, everyone would quite rightly be questioning his poor approach/technique.
But moving to the ball doesnt win the header there. Its over his head, he peddles back in an attempt to reach it which tells you he needed to be further back (not forward) so its not aggression in this case in my opinion. That doesnt mean he doesnt suffer from that but I just see it in this case
- Status