Agreed, but not according to the media backlash for the following six months.
VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to celebrate rare back-to-back victories for Manchester United! They analyse the late win in the Europa League vs. Rangers and then try and find things to analyse in a pretty dour game vs. Fulham. They also chat about the latest Marcus Rashford news, and look at the latest transfer news.
I don't mean to go full-on tinfoil hat here since this is fairly minor in terms of impact but another strange thing I've noticed happen to us twice now which I cannot recall happening in other matches is very tight offsides being flagged early by the assistants when we were in genuinely threatening attacking positions.
Standard protocol now is to wait until the play has developed, which makes perfect sense when the call is marginal since if it results in a goal it'll be checked anyway. There's no need or even reason for the assistant to flag early if they aren't absolutely certain of an offside.
Yet twice in recent matches now, I can recall us having a player flagged immediately for offside when the call looked very tight on the replay. Garnacho against Southampton (I think) was the first. To be fair, this one wasn't very conclusive; we didn't get a great angle of it on the replay but it looked as though there was a possibility that Garnacho was onside and had he been allowed to run with the ball he was in a good position to create a chance.
The more egregious one for me, though, was called against Dalot in the Brighton match. There, replays showed beyond any reasonable doubt that Dalot was in fact onside when the pass to him was made and again, he was in a good position to create a chance. In both cases, it struck me as odd that the assistant would immediately raise the flag rather than following the usual protocol of waiting to see if the play would develop.
Standard protocol now is to wait until the play has developed, which makes perfect sense when the call is marginal since if it results in a goal it'll be checked anyway. There's no need or even reason for the assistant to flag early if they aren't absolutely certain of an offside.
Yet twice in recent matches now, I can recall us having a player flagged immediately for offside when the call looked very tight on the replay. Garnacho against Southampton (I think) was the first. To be fair, this one wasn't very conclusive; we didn't get a great angle of it on the replay but it looked as though there was a possibility that Garnacho was onside and had he been allowed to run with the ball he was in a good position to create a chance.
The more egregious one for me, though, was called against Dalot in the Brighton match. There, replays showed beyond any reasonable doubt that Dalot was in fact onside when the pass to him was made and again, he was in a good position to create a chance. In both cases, it struck me as odd that the assistant would immediately raise the flag rather than following the usual protocol of waiting to see if the play would develop.
It was ridiculous. Even the var audio the ref repeatedly said we don't give those. They never did and I seen worse in the weeks after. No penalty given and the media didn't bat an eyelid.
Nothing generates clicks and views like United getting a favourable decision.
Is there a replay of the disallowed goal?
I could only find stills which don't show much.
I could only find stills which don't show much.
Then they showed all there is to see
Jump in the air and have someone push you in the back and see how much your strong muscles counteract the laws of physics.
Well Maguire never jumped so there is that.
Get a VPN - I use Nord VPN, it costs buttons and it's very reliable
Feels like every other team gets wrapped in cotton wool and united “need to be stronger” every time
Placing hands on the ref?
How do you see the replay of the arsenal card and not say hey, this clearly isn't a red. This is just my point in a nutshell. Var isn't the problem, it's the human element that is fecking it up
It doesn't even make sense from a protecting the referee point of view. You overturn him, get the right decision and people move on and forget about it (for another 10 mins till Oliver inevitably fecks up again because hes fecking hopeless)
Going against the grain here, but I can see why he gave it. Arsenal have slung every outfielder into the final 18 yards of the pitch. When he’s fouled, Wolves have 3v2 against the last two Arsenal defenders. And that ratio looks like it’s going to increase in their favour as there are more following behind. If he’s not fouled then Wolves have a very good chance of (at least) a 1v1 with the keeper.
I think it’s harsh because the convention is to err on the side of yellow. But it’s on the Arsenal set-piece coach for horsing everybody up the park and then assuming that stopping the counter-attack will only ever be a yellow.
Going against the grain here, but I can see why he gave it. Arsenal have slung every outfielder into the final 18 yards of the pitch. When he’s fouled, Wolves have 3v2 against the last two Arsenal defenders. And that ratio looks like it’s going to increase in their favour as there are more following behind. If he’s not fouled then Wolves have a very good chance of (at least) a 1v1 with the keeper.
I think it’s harsh because the convention is to err on the side of yellow. But it’s on the Arsenal set-piece coach for horsing everybody up the park and then assuming that stopping the counter-attack will only ever be a yellow.
Which rule deems it a red though? The defender isn't the last man. Without seeing the replay I can't really be sure but from the still it doesn't appear to fall under DOGSO.
A 3 v 2 or a 2 v 1 is a goalscoring opportunity. The only area of doubt is if the Wolves attacker can make the relatively easy pass to slip in one of his teammates.
Going against the grain here, but I can see why he gave it. Arsenal have slung every outfielder into the final 18 yards of the pitch. When he’s fouled, Wolves have 3v2 against the last two Arsenal defenders. And that ratio looks like it’s going to increase in their favour as there are more following behind. If he’s not fouled then Wolves have a very good chance of (at least) a 1v1 with the keeper.
I think it’s harsh because the convention is to err on the side of yellow. But it’s on the Arsenal set-piece coach for horsing everybody up the park and then assuming that stopping the counter-attack will only ever be a yellow.
absolutely crazy take. this type of, sorry, nonsense, is what allows this stuff to keep happening. Its never a red card, in a million years, regardless of how poorly arsenal set up. the guy is 80 yards from goal with 2 very close proximity arsenal defenders. one of the worst reds ive ever seen and if we see some attempts to rationalise it, as we saw on final score from bbc, then we should just pack it in and never comment on referees again, because this is maybe the most blatant wrong call you'll ever see
He was sent off for serious foul play, not denying a goal scoring opportunity, that means going against the grain is nonsense, whether it was a justifiable red card for serious foul play is the only point of discussion here
Going against the grain here, but I can see why he gave it. Arsenal have slung every outfielder into the final 18 yards of the pitch. When he’s fouled, Wolves have 3v2 against the last two Arsenal defenders. And that ratio looks like it’s going to increase in their favour as there are more following behind. If he’s not fouled then Wolves have a very good chance of (at least) a 1v1 with the keeper.
I think it’s harsh because the convention is to err on the side of yellow. But it’s on the Arsenal set-piece coach for horsing everybody up the park and then assuming that stopping the counter-attack will only ever be a yellow.
It's not a clear goalscoring opportunity, it's happened 20 yards inside their own half, that is irreelevant anyway, he wasn't sent off for that no matter what the merit for doing so is
That's 3v3 if anything.. Martinelli is clearly catching Doherty and likely the other 2 running onto to any through ball before the halfway line forget any shot taking position too without taking into account knowing the players pace and fitness levels. Arsenal fans can rightfully have this one, it's a disgrace of a decision.
I'm not the biggest fan of these fouls really, so if they want to make them a red from now on, cool.... but since no ones sent that memo out, it's not Oliver's decision to start it mid season out of the blue. That's if we want to start calling petulant trips serious foul play anyway.
I'm not the biggest fan of these fouls really, so if they want to make them a red from now on, cool.... but since no ones sent that memo out, it's not Oliver's decision to start it mid season out of the blue. That's if we want to start calling petulant trips serious foul play anyway.
So if 80 yards is too far, how close to goal do you need to be to deny a goalscoring opportunity? And why? Give me reasons not rants.
If I’m either of the 2 Wolves players with 60 yards of free space ahead of me, I’m expecting to have a 1v1 with the keeper in 5 seconds time. All it needed was a simple 5-10 yard pass and they were both in. I’ve been in that situation plenty of times and the reason defenders are happy to take the yellow is because they know it’s a small price to pay for averting a very likely goalscoring opportunity.
Hard to feel sorry for Arsenal when they foul at will to stop teams countering them. Maybe they’ll hesitate next time.
Well that’s the wrong call then. My wider point stands however.
Going against the grain here, but I can see why he gave it. Arsenal have slung every outfielder into the final 18 yards of the pitch. When he’s fouled, Wolves have 3v2 against the last two Arsenal defenders. And that ratio looks like it’s going to increase in their favour as there are more following behind. If he’s not fouled then Wolves have a very good chance of (at least) a 1v1 with the keeper.
I think it’s harsh because the convention is to err on the side of yellow. But it’s on the Arsenal set-piece coach for horsing everybody up the park and then assuming that stopping the counter-attack will only ever be a yellow.
I think this sort of deliberate denial of a break should result in a red card more often. But it absolutely never is. So I'd be furious is that was suddenly given as a DOGSO against my team.
If this is the reason given then it should 100% have been overturned by VAR. Slightly more to it than the red that Bruno got a few months back. But still it's a textbook yellow, nothing more.
A lot closer thant that, and you're making way too many assumptions over what would happen for it to be classed as denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity.
Defenders can defend 3 v2's, players can mess up their pass(es), it might have took multiple passes produce a chance. Players can miscontrol etc. In the first half of the City v Chelsea match Cole Palmer overhit a square ball to Jackson where he would have had a great chance to score and Palmer's better than any Wolves player.
It's a promsing looking counter attack opportunity, no more that that. It would have to be a lot later in the move, a player about to shoot or be clean through etc. for it to be denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity. The key word is obvious.
50 City games: 0 Red Card (and we know he had multiples opportunities to do so)
54 Liverpool games: 1 Red Card
58 Arsenal games: 8 Red Cards
If those were "normal" red cards you could maybe call it coincidental, but some of them are truly mental and never happened to anybody else.
Yeah scraped his stoods down the Wolves players shin and stood on his boot with making any genuine attempt to play the ball so you can understand why VAR didnt overturn it.
Regardless of whether one sees it as a "last man" foul or not, the incident was blatant foul play with clear potential to injure the opposing player. The violent intent behind targeting the opponent's ankle goes beyond the threshold of a yellow card. We've seen similar instances like those punished with red cards in the past, without much fanfare.
Considering the additional circumstance on this instance, particularly with the opposition on a counterattack, a red card is absolutely justifiable. This isn't about pandering to Arsenal fans or their manager's biased opinions; decisions like this would be far less controversial if they involved most other teams. It’s time to hold players accountable for reckless challenges, irrespective of the badge on their shirt.
Considering the additional circumstance on this instance, particularly with the opposition on a counterattack, a red card is absolutely justifiable. This isn't about pandering to Arsenal fans or their manager's biased opinions; decisions like this would be far less controversial if they involved most other teams. It’s time to hold players accountable for reckless challenges, irrespective of the badge on their shirt.
He’s THE most inconsistent referee on a team by team basis by a county mile. The stats are there for all to see, it’s mental.
Saw the incident twice and instantly thought it was harsh. Looked your classic yellow decision.
However, if the odd red for those sort of cynical fouls stops teams doing it, it's for the greater good.
However, if the odd red for those sort of cynical fouls stops teams doing it, it's for the greater good.
They need to change the rules then, we can't complain about inconsistentcy in decisions and then issue a red now and then, either make it a red card for cynical fouls like this or not
nobody is ranting. can see the abstract point youre trying to make, but youre simply wrong here. go to youtube and watch it again, as doherty touches the ball there are 2 arsenal players goal side, 2 arsenal players in line with the next 2 wolves players (albeit one of them is skelly) and 2 arsenal players in line with the next wolves 2 after that. Not only this, but it wasnt even given for denying a goalscoring chance, it was given for serious foul play - so even the crazy referee or var doesnt agree with your take.
In real time, it just looks like he's cynically stopped a Wolves break and 'taken' a yellow card.
But from the side-on angle you can clearly see his studs raking down the Wolves' player's leg and onto the player's instep, and there's just no debate whatsoever. Oliver has actually made the right call on the pitch.
To be honest, Arsenal have been doing these cynical fouls all season, mainly to foil breakaways so they can afford to push players forward for corners.
This is just about MO and the fact that any decision he makes these days attracts attention, but it's 100% the correct call.
But from the side-on angle you can clearly see his studs raking down the Wolves' player's leg and onto the player's instep, and there's just no debate whatsoever. Oliver has actually made the right call on the pitch.
To be honest, Arsenal have been doing these cynical fouls all season, mainly to foil breakaways so they can afford to push players forward for corners.
This is just about MO and the fact that any decision he makes these days attracts attention, but it's 100% the correct call.
There was enough push to put Maguire out of the line of the ball. Clear foul and the goal should have been disallowed.
Doherty has burst past Lewis-Skelly who is out of the game. It is a clear 3 v 2 where both Arsenal defenders will probably try and close him down and all he has to do is slip it wide and there are two Wolves players sprinting clear. Saliba has the best chance of covering the runners, but even he's a couple of yards behind. The next deepest Arsenal players are the guys out near the touchline who will struggle to recover the extra distance. Wolves would really have to mess that counter up not to have a goalscoring opportunity.
He's in mid air when he's pushed, how is that not jumping?
Agreed, for me it's actually a good decision, one of the very few Oliver has ever made.
You’ve not just gone against the grain here, you’ve gone against what he actually gave the red card for.
He gave it for ‘serious foul play’.
You’ve written all that on the premise that he saw red for denying a clear goal scoring opportunity. And even if he did, it would still be nonsense. Really strange take to say the least.
You should watch it again.