If you're saying that's a red, you need your head checked. And maybe start watching a different sport.
VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
He clearly didn't. Lewis-Skelly made contact with the side of his foot on the shin and on top of the wolves players foot with his stud.
You know who scraped studs down the shin? The wolves player who only got a yellow for it but got sent off as it was a 2nd yellow.
Can’t be understated what a massive, massive problem Michael Oliver is.
Grossly incompetent, biased and just keeps to strike me as a deep down incredibly insecure man with an inferiority complex. Feels like the other refs look up to him considering the big games he is awarded, and don’t have the balls to overturn his decisions.
Would love to hear the meetings Howard Webb and PGMOL have with him and the others, discussing the obvious feck ups they make.
Can’t see how they are constructive at all considering that Oliver and his colleagues keep getting rewarded to officiate high level games no matter what they do.
The entire PGMOL organisation needs to be completely overhauled.
They'd be wrong to just point to the letter of the law, though.
It really is a horrible decision. One of the worst I can remember, actually.
It’s one of those circumstances where the blue card they were mentioning before would make a lot of sense - and will hopefully stop these professional fouls. Red cards feel way too harsh, and yellow cards don’t feel sufficient enough.
That said, if Oliver has sent him off for the tackle, it’s another awful decision. I definitely don’t agree with the all this worst decision ever quotes - I don’t even think it’s his worst call (the Dalot one I will never forget). All this talk about him being the best England has is ridiculous - I don’t have any City support friends - but my friends of other clubs all convinced he’s biased against them, and he’s an awful ref.
That said, if Oliver has sent him off for the tackle, it’s another awful decision. I definitely don’t agree with the all this worst decision ever quotes - I don’t even think it’s his worst call (the Dalot one I will never forget). All this talk about him being the best England has is ridiculous - I don’t have any City support friends - but my friends of other clubs all convinced he’s biased against them, and he’s an awful ref.
The general standards of PL officiating have declined to a point where I honestly think it should be regarded as a crisis. It's beyond ridiculous - you expect something downright inexplicable to happen every round, and usually it does. And VAR never seems to correct even the most obvious misjudgments. It's on a level that can't plausibly be accounted for by inept individuals, there has got to be something systemic here.
The consistency is the point. A red card completely and utterly changes a game of football. The threshold for such a decision should be high - and it normally is. Michael Oliver has ruined two games of football involving Arsenal this season (that I can remember) by producing two incredibly soft red cards for principles that are not consistently applied, to put it lightly.
When he didn't send off Kovacic for City against us last season for probably the most blatant second yellow in history, it was said he "didn't want to spoil the game".
Eight red cards for Arsenal players, one for Liverpool and zero for City. Even if it's a coincidence you'd want to take him out of rotation for Arsenal games to avoid the noise.
When he didn't send off Kovacic for City against us last season for probably the most blatant second yellow in history, it was said he "didn't want to spoil the game".
Eight red cards for Arsenal players, one for Liverpool and zero for City. Even if it's a coincidence you'd want to take him out of rotation for Arsenal games to avoid the noise.
Like 99% of football fans, I hate this tackle and would like to see it punished more than a yellow, but it's not right now. If he pull the player back there, it's a yellow by the rules, but he uses his leg to trip him, same thing and never violent conduct. Park of the trip is above the ankle, but jesus, hard to trip someone without being part above the ankle. It will be the only Red of it's kind this season when a similar tackle is probably made every week.
If he pulls him back, it's a yellow, if he trips him without his studs going down into his ankle, it's a yellow, as it happens his studs have gone straight into his ankle, so I can see why the decision was red, as above too if case or ugarte get a red for that , fans around the PL will be saying that it's the correct decision imo.
His studs doesn't really go straight into the ankle. There's contact but not much. There's barely any force involved and it's more of a trip. If anything, it reminds me of Bruno's red card against Tottenham.
SERIOUS FOUL PLAY
A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.
Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.
I don't think serious foul play should come into play for what is essentially a trip where there's no force or pace involved that would endanger the safety of the Wolves player. You see the Arsenal player leaning back as well.
It just brings me back to the Kovacic tackle on Ødegaard, slides in from behind with pace, stamps Ødegaard fairly high up on his standing foot and escapes with a yellow card because he didn't place his studs "high enough". It's a perfect ankle breaker height and on the foot where Ødegaard has his weight placed, the tackle is also coming in from behind which means that Ødegaard doesn't have much of a chance to prepare for what's coming. Fast forward to the red card yesterday. If all they actually review is how high his studs were, and not what's actually happening, then what's the point.
I'm not surprised that VAR didn't get involved. Oliver is on the pitch and Webb has consistently gone on about the high treshold for intervention, it was something mentioned ahead of this season as well. Odds are that you're fecked if you tell Oliver to check it on the monitor.
Last edited:
Sky's main headline is that Arteta is 'fuming' about the decision. Why does not a single member of our team react like this to ref? We've been shafted every single game for the last month or so and a lot more before then. Never gets called out like this.
We all know that ref needs sorting out but… unless I’m missing something, that was a second yellow. It was 110% a yellow, resulting in a red. Not seen the match or any context but that was definitely a yellow.
Just in case I am missing something, well, I need another look. Haven’t seen the first but that is a yellow.
Can’t stand the cnut but I would be livid had he not given it in our favour. (I know
)
Just in case I am missing something, well, I need another look. Haven’t seen the first but that is a yellow.
Can’t stand the cnut but I would be livid had he not given it in our favour. (I know
)Exactly that is in my opinion likely to be at the root of this mess, and is such a stupid policy. The whole point of VAR is to correct mistakes. If it doesn't, week in week out, there is simply no reason to have confidence in the system.His studs doesn't really go straight into the ankle. There's contact but not much. There's barely any force involved and it's more of a trip. If anything, it reminds me of Bruno's red card against Tottenham.
SERIOUS FOUL PLAY
A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.
Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.
I don't think serious foul play should come into play for what is essentially a trip where there's no force or pace involved that would endanger the safety of the Wolves player
It just brings me back to the Kovacic tackle on Ødegaard, slides in from behind with pace, stamps Ødegaard fairly high up on his standing foot and escapes with a yellow card because he didn't place his studs "high enough". It's a perfect ankle breaker height and on the foot where Ødegaard has his weight placed, the tackle is also coming in from behind which means that Ødegaard doesn't have much of a chance to prepare for what's coming. Fast forward to the red card yesterday. If all they actually review is how high his studs were, and not what's actually happening, then what's the point.
I'm not surprised that VAR didn't get involved. Oliver is on the pitch and Webb has consistently gone on about the high treshold for intervention, it was something mentioned ahead of this season as well. Odds are that you're fecked if you tell Oliver to check it on the monitor.
Are you sitting down?We all know that ref needs sorting out but… unless I’m missing something, that was a second yellow. It was 110% a yellow, resulting in a red. Not seen the match or any context but that was definitely a yellow.
Just in case I am missing something, well, I need another look. Haven’t seen the first but that is a yellow.
Can’t stand the cnut but I would be livid had he not given it in our favour. (I know
We all know that ref needs sorting out but… unless I’m missing something, that was a second yellow. It was 110% a yellow, resulting in a red. Not seen the match or any context but that was definitely a yellow.
Just in case I am missing something, well, I need another look. Haven’t seen the first but that is a yellow.
Can’t stand the cnut but I would be livid had he not given it in our favour. (I know
Erm, the point is that it was given as a straight red card - the player hadn’t already been booked.
Yeah exactly. Arsenal fans "this doesn't happen to anyone else"... See Bruno vs Spurs. And guess who reffing.
We all know that ref needs sorting out but… unless I’m missing something, that was a second yellow. It was 110% a yellow, resulting in a red. Not seen the match or any context but that was definitely a yellow.
Just in case I am missing something, well, I need another look. Haven’t seen the first but that is a yellow.
Can’t stand the cnut but I would be livid had he not given it in our favour. (I know
.,Thanks pal.Just got back from a very hot days work… snatched a look. Thought I saw ref proffer a yellow followed by a red, thinking it was a 2nd yellow.
Did say I needed another look. Seen him do more outrageous stuff but yeah. A bit ott. Would’ve barely rated a mention for Utd
To be fair you do, your match threads are predominantly cussing the refs. I am not really crying as we get the luck as well sometimes. Just like you have many times in your favor.
What I do whine on is:
1) This booking and red cards, City and Newcastle largely escape from this. Despite absolutely disgusting foul play many a time. Especially in City's case, just last year or the year before eg Kovacic had not one by 2 clear and blatant red cards Oliver never gave a booking on. Or Trossard's red card when we were looking the better team (was that by Oliver too?)
2) Standard of refs is absolutely dire, and that is an understatement. Its why crying about VAR from football fans is pointless as without VAR some bog standard barn door decisions would left at these incompetent fools' mercy and would not be over turned. The problem is the referees themselves.
And I don't know why but its only here in England.
You may call me a conspiracy theorist but as proven in Spain who knows if it can happen here too? Wasn't one of the refs paid by City to go on a tour abroad or something?
There's minimal force with the studs on the shin, and it's not the full flat face of the boot.
Like the Bruno one, I'm pretty confident this will get overturned and that'll be that on whether it was a red card or not.
PGMOL support for Oliver, so doubt it
https://www.skysports.com/football/...-over-decision-to-send-defender-off-vs-wolves
“The refereeing body adds Oliver has been subjected to social media abuse.”
They’re a fecking cartel, they do everything to protect their own from any sort of criticism.
I don't get the outrage it looks a clear red to me, he's stretched forward with his leg fully extended and studs half way up his calf. He isn't in control.
I do kind of enjoy the fact that fans of all big clubs in all countries are absolutely sure the refs are out to deliberately get them and only them.
They're just incompetent.
They're just incompetent.
I haven't seen the replay but it kind of sounds like Bruno's red vs Spurs. Maybe it looked worse in real time but again you have to worry about what VAR is doing.
Oh absolutely, i just think that PGMOL sort of sets the bar. It will surprise me if they go out with publiv support and it then gets overturned. But i have been wrong before
He is leaning backwards and there isnt really anything in it. It’s clearly a trip rather than something with force
See United vs Arsenal! The amount of favourable decisions they got that game was mind boggling.
How do you explain the disparity in yellow/red cards he gives v.s. city then v.s. the rest of them?
A lot of people talking about the replay without posting it. I’ve only seen what they show in the highlights, no super slo mo or still images. Could it be it looks worse in that context? Which is often the way VAR gets stuff wrong. Over analysis of footage that isn’t in real time. Which is, ironically, the exact same reason a cohort of football fans have been clamouring for VAR for years.
Skysport news taking the absolute piss out of red card for arsenal yesterday.
Literally said Oliver shouldn’t be ref arsenal games.
Literally said Oliver shouldn’t be ref arsenal games.
Thanks. Easy to see why the referee’s decision wasn’t overturned. The last angle clearly show it’s studs on shin. And when you take into account how cynical the challenge was.
Cynical or not doesn’t come into play. Also, there isn’t any force involved, its more of a trip than anything else. Easy to understand way VAR stays out of it, But shouldn’t be a red in the first place
Cynicism isn’t in the laws of the game but it’s natural for referees to take a dimmer view of challenges that have zero intention of playing the ball. And I think that’s fair enough.
This is a good example of a poor decision made in real time (I think 99 times out of 100 a good referee gives a yellow card there) that VAR isn’t capable of fixing. Because obsessive rewatching of extreme slow motion close up replays does the opposite of what it’s supposed to. We all knew this before VAR was introduced though. Because we watched ex pros on MOTD consistently disagree with each other after watching similar footage every weekend. It’s a complete myth that these replays will uncover the “truth” of incidents like this.
Even if you slow down. Turn it upside down. Left or right. Inside out. Make it black and White. It is never red card. Never. What some other teams experience once or twice a season, we are getting that pretty much every week.
I was suprised that we are not talking about our team and referees and VAR decisions this gameweek. However, we don’t play until tonight.
No bile from me mate. Happy we're still in the FA Cup thanks to that great game we had.Magnificent edit
Not up at 02:00, either. Time zones.
Re the bolded. Yeah I don't think he has any way of seeing the contact with the studs in real time and I'm also unconvinced that VAR recommends a red if he had given a yellow either.
It’s actually quite difficult to work out his thought process for the red. Did he think it was violent? Or maybe went down the DOGSO rabbit hole that @Gio suggested?