VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion

It's funny because it's Arsenal but I do think - like United - get these crazy decisions because there is no downside to refs. 99% of fans love it when bad things happen to us. No one cares about City, and bad things aren't allowed to happen to LFC (beach ball aside) because a national day of mourning would be called for.

There will be at least 4 times in our match today with Pool that the same thing effectively happens. Whether it's running up to stand in front of the quick free kick, or my favourite - a full back grabbing the ball after conceding a throw in and running the f*ck away with it before hurling it up in the air nowhere near the player waiting - this tactic will be used dozens of times just this weekend. And only one player gets sent off for it.

It's happened to us a million times. Dalot last season, Casemiro, that weird Lindelof handball that had the rules changed immediately after, Rooney being the only player in prem history to both be booked for cursing and also banned from pre-season friendly. Rules are applied selectively, and because its us and Arsenal its funny.
 
Don't really get the fuss to be honest. Granted there are other petty pieces of game management and time wasting that don't consistently get picked up, but kicking the ball away usually does. If you do it and you are on a yellow, you are an idiot.
 
Beachryan said:
It's funny because it's Arsenal but I do think - like United - get these crazy decisions because there is no downside to refs. 99% of fans love it when bad things happen to us. No one cares about City, and bad things aren't allowed to happen to LFC (beach ball aside) because a national day of mourning would be called for.

There will be at least 4 times in our match today with Pool that the same thing effectively happens. Whether it's running up to stand in front of the quick free kick, or my favourite - a full back grabbing the ball after conceding a throw in and running the f*ck away with it before hurling it up in the air nowhere near the player waiting - this tactic will be used dozens of times just this weekend. And only one player gets sent off for it.

It's happened to us a million times. Dalot last season, Casemiro, that weird Lindelof handball that had the rules changed immediately after, Rooney being the only player in prem history to both be booked for cursing and also banned from pre-season friendly. Rules are applied selectively, and because its us and Arsenal its funny.
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This is basic point which so many seem to be (wilfully) unable to grasp. No one is saying that you can’t book someone for what Rice did. We’re saying that referees in general never do. And that this referee specifically didn’t with multiple other similar scenarios in the same game.

The ball was still rolling so all Rice could possibly have been booked for is delaying the restart. The idea that “you can’t compare” other instances where players either kicked away or held on to the ball without punishment is bizarre. Of course you can - it’s literally the same thing.

Similar to Dalot’s (and Martinelli’s) sending offs for two bookable offences within moments of each other, you can find justification within the laws of the game for the dismissal if you really want to. But football seems unique amongst sports in how giddy the referees are to remove the people that everyone turned up and tuned in to see - the players.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He was clearly in the process of taking a free kick. Whether it was valid or not we never got a chance to find out because Rice prevented him from kicking the ball. The ref can’t penalise a defender for taking a free kick with a moving ball if the defender never gets a chance to kick the ball.
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It’s invalid whether moving or not because it’s about 8-10 yards from the spot of the foul. And its that far away because he has (twice) deliberately rolled the ball into Rice’s path to provoke the incident.

It was really just petty shit housery from both players and a good ref resolves it without making himself the main character and changing the match. Similar things happen in nearly every game.
 
Today, hundreds of millions of people will tune in for the Anthony Taylor show. Make no mistake, today is about him, he's who people want to see, and he will make sure he's the most visible person on the pitch.
 
Daydreamer said:
The ball was still rolling so all Rice could possibly have been booked for is delaying the restart. The idea that “you can’t compare” other instances where players either kicked away or held on to the ball without punishment is bizarre. Of course you can - it’s literally the same thing.
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Saying something is “literally the same thing” doesn’t change the fact that it is in fact a different thing.
 
Certainly was a "brave" call for the ref to make at the home of a big club. They usually bottle those.

It feels odd that the defender utterly piles into him straight after and gets away with it.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Saying something is “literally the same thing” doesn’t change the fact that it is in fact a different thing.
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True. It literally being the same thing makes it the same thing. Both offences are delaying the restart through kicking the ball away. That’s the only possible offence for Rice seeing as the ball was clearly still moving because, as @Powderfinger pointed out, the defender kept rolling it into his path.

The laughable thing is, I don’t even think the Brighton player was trying to get Rice sent off. It’s pretty clear that he wanted to get away with giving Rice a kicking. The only player that was even vaguely available for a pass was ahead of him down the touch line and would have required a straight side foot pass. Instead he kicks across his body and clatters Rice’s leg.

They both could have been cautioned, but I think the fairest thing would have been for the ref to have just let Rice’s bruises be the end result of a fairly innocuous incident.
 
Powderfinger said:
It’s invalid whether moving or not because it’s about 8-10 yards from the spot of the foul. And its that far away because he has (twice) deliberately rolled the ball into Rice’s path to provoke the incident
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Stretch.
 
SER19 said:
Today, hundreds of millions of people will tune in for the Anthony Taylor show. Make no mistake, today is about him, he's who people want to see, and he will make sure he's the most visible person on the pitch.
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:lol:

You’re really not wrong. My early bet is he will flash a dramatic yellow card at Bruno within 3 minutes of the game for asking the ref a question, which will set the tone for who’s the real big name attraction for this game.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Why do you guys keep showing such terrible examples?! Rice didn’t kick the ball the instant after the whistle blew. That happens all the time and it’s completely different to what Rice did. Show me the Arsenal player in possession of the ball, in the process of taking a free kick or throw in, only for a Brighton player to nick it off him. Because that’s what Rice was booked for.

What he did was actually quite unusual. It definitely didn’t happen again in yesterday’s game. I think it would be hard to find an example of it in any other game this season. And I would be amazed if you find an example of anyone ever doing it without being booked.
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Because they're convinced that there's a conspiracy against him because Arteta whined in a high pitched voice. Given that he's one of the cringiest managers in the league, that's not saying much though.
 
WeePat said:
:lol:

You’re really not wrong. My early bet is he will flash a dramatic yellow card at Bruno within 3 minutes of the game for asking the ref a question, which will set the tone for who’s the real big name attraction for this game.
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This is why we watch. Elite professionals doing what they do best.
 
Hughes not getting a second yellow here was so bizarre. He had already been walking a tightrope with a couple of iffy fouls the ref let go, but this was a blatant yellow card. Palace hooked him at the next break in play.

 
Pogue Mahone said:
Why do you guys keep showing such terrible examples?! Rice didn’t kick the ball the instant after the whistle blew. That happens all the time and it’s completely different to what Rice did. Show me the Arsenal player in possession of the ball, in the process of taking a free kick or throw in, only for a Brighton player to nick it off him. Because that’s what Rice was booked for.

What he did was actually quite unusual. It definitely didn’t happen again in yesterday’s game. I think it would be hard to find an example of it in any other game this season. And I would be amazed if you find an example of anyone ever doing it without being booked.
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Here's one that's been going around with the exact same player and exact same referee, from two years ago. Foul, Xhaka sets the ball to take a kick free, Rice pokes it away, Xhaka sets it again, now Paqueta knocks it away, Cavanaugh with a crystal clear view of the whole thing, and no booking for either West Ham player.

If its that easy for people to find an example of Rice doing it without getting booked about five feet in front of Cavanaugh, I'm sure there are a million more out there if anybody really bothered to go through old match film. This is just a common little bit of shithousery, like throwing the ball away from the opponent when there is confusion about a throw in. What made it exceptional more than anything was Veltman deciding to instigate the incident by rolling the ball into him while he was walking way and then intentionally booting him on the leg. The referee just took the bait and completely choked in the moment in his decision making.

 
They've obviously decided to actually enforce that law this season. Still not giving indirect free kicks when gk holds the ball for >6 seconds, or enforcing holding at corners.

I think the refs have been decent this season. The overall situation with some laws is still farcical though.
 
Powderfinger said:
Here's one that's been going around with the exact same player and exact same referee, from two years ago. Foul, Xhaka sets the ball to take a kick free, Rice pokes it away, Xhaka sets it again, now Paqueta knocks it away, Cavanaugh with a crystal clear view of the whole thing, and no booking for either West Ham player.

If its that easy for people to find an example of Rice doing it without getting booked about five feet in front of Cavanaugh, I'm sure there are a million more out there if anybody really bothered to go through old match film. This is just a common little bit of shithousery, like throwing the ball away from the opponent when there is confusion about a throw in. What made it exceptional more than anything was Veltman deciding to instigate the incident by rolling the ball into him while he was walking way and then intentionally booting him on the leg. The referee just took the bait and completely choked in the moment in his decision making.

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Rice should definitely have been booked there. He learned his lesson eventually. Bet you wish he’d learned it back then.
 
Mb194dc said:
They've obviously decided to actually enforce that law this season. Still not giving indirect free kicks when gk holds the ball for >6 seconds, or enforcing holding at corners.

I think the refs have been decent this season. The overall situation with some laws is still farcical though.
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:lol:
it's matchday 3 and we've seen that Rice red card, Musquera choking Havertz on the ground, Joelinton trying to kill a goalkeeper and surely many more that i can't be bothered thinking about. They are horrible.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
If Arsenal's fanbase wasn't so deluded, we wouldn't still be speaking about this. It was a pretty easy yellow card indeed.
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I’m not sure any Arsenal fans on here said it wasn’t a yellow card. The laws of the game were correctly applied. There’s just very little consistency in sending a player off with a second yellow for delaying the restart while not applying that to several other instances of that within the same game - all with far longer delays.
 
Daydreamer said:
I’m not sure any Arsenal fans on here said it wasn’t a yellow card. The laws of the game were correctly applied. There’s just very little consistency in sending a player off with a second yellow for delaying the restart while not applying that to several other instances of that within the same game - all with far longer delays.
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I'm not sure about "on here" (I'm pretty sure that there would have been a few of the usual suspects saying so), but when I said "we wouldn't be talking about this anymore" it was beyond just this forum which, despite its awesomeness, doesn't quite shape the public discourse when it comes to football. Ian Wright didn't believe it was a yellow.
 
Daydreamer said:
I’m not sure any Arsenal fans on here said it wasn’t a yellow card. The laws of the game were correctly applied. There’s just very little consistency in sending a player off with a second yellow for delaying the restart while not applying that to several other instances of that within the same game - all with far longer delays.
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Meh. Arsenal will benefit from enough inconsistently applied laws over the course of the season. Problem is, even in that, you'll end up second to City.

Back to Rice, I think it's the fall to the pitch pretending his legs were broken that gave the ref time to make this decision. Maybe next time he'd think twice about playacting right after committing a card worthy offence himself.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
I'm not sure about "on here" (I'm pretty sure that there would have been a few of the usual suspects saying so), but when I said "we wouldn't be talking about this anymore" it was beyond just this forum which, despite its awesomeness, doesn't quite shape the public discourse when it comes to football. Ian Wright didn't believe it was a yellow.
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I think they may have stopped banging on about it on reddit but at one point there were three or four threads a day railing at the 'injustice'.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
I'm not sure about "on here" (I'm pretty sure that there would have been a few of the usual suspects saying so), but when I said "we wouldn't be talking about this anymore" it was beyond just this forum which, despite its awesomeness, doesn't quite shape the public discourse when it comes to football. Ian Wright didn't believe it was a yellow.
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Ah, got you. Fair enough.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
If Arsenal's fanbase wasn't so deluded, we wouldn't still be speaking about this. It was a pretty easy yellow card indeed.
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Honestly, they've lost their heads with it. Still seeing new posts on socials about it for what is one of the clearest yellow card decisions a referee has to make. I've never seen so much uproar about a yellow card. Deluded.
 
Daydreamer said:
I’m not sure any Arsenal fans on here said it wasn’t a yellow card. The laws of the game were correctly applied. There’s just very little consistency in sending a player off with a second yellow for delaying the restart while not applying that to several other instances of that within the same game - all with far longer delays.
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I'll say that it shouldn't have been a yellow card. Referees, like police officers, have a great deal of discretion. If I get pulled over for driving with an expired registration, everything from "man, stop busting my balls and get down to the court house tomorrow and get your car registered" to "go sit on the sidewalk in handcuffs while we wait for the drug dogs" is on the table. And we hope our police officers will exercise their discretion wisely. Referees should be doing the same. Rice didn't boot the ball into row z to prevent a promising counter attack in the attacking third. He tapped away a ball kicked into him, that technically couldn't be put into play yet because it was (a) still moving and (b) not being taken from anywhere near the spot of the foul. This would have been the perfect time for the referee to show some discretion and have a brief conversation with Rice and say "hey, remember they've said this is a point of emphasis this year, I'm not going to send you off on a technicality this time, but don't ever put me in this position again."
 
Southampton red card vs Man Utd
High challenge but think harsh red
 
You fly into a tackle studs up at knee height you're asking for a red in this day and age. 10 years ago you might get away with that. Not anymore.
 
imonkmc said:
High challenge but think harsh red
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Harsh how? It’s a textbook red. He’s airborne and therefore completely out of control of the tackle, and he impacts Garnacho studs up on his knee. Sorry but how on earth is that harsh.
 
imonkmc said:
High challenge but think harsh red
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Garnacho was lucky that it was a sliding contact but there's literally no excuse for Stephens to dive into such tackle, he wasn't trying to get the ball. When you slide in with your feet at knee's height, it's a reckless challenge that endangers the opponent.
 
o/u 10 cards just for kicking the ball away today? Given we're already at 2, and they've been told to obviously strictly implement it, at least for a week.
 
Swedish_Plumber said:
If we’re being honest there should be more reds for those tackles in general. Regardless of height.
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Yep, this is the only reason why the red card seems harsh.

Refs should be giving reds for that 100/100. The only thing that saves a really nasty bit of contact is luck, because he's completely out of control. 0.001 seconds later and he's crashing through Garnacho's knee with force.

Too often refs see that a player got away with it and let it go with a yellow, so good on the ref for taking the brave and correct decision.

Less said about the rest of his performance the better.
 
The most obvious red to give, and nowadays pretty consistent in giving those except for massive mess-ups.

At well was rather shit on the whole though. Incompetent like most refs.
 
imonkmc said:
High challenge but think harsh red
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I’m not even a United fan I think that’s a nailed on red. He flies into a tackle at knee height. It’s not even like that’s where the ball was - he’s just trying to injure Garnacho.

I’m genuinely curious @imonkmc, what make it harsh for you?
 
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