Well, the video clearly shows the Wolves player sticking out his foot and taking the ball well before he collides with Bruno, and it's not much contact. Bruno goes down as soon as he realizes what's happening.
VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran discuss a horrific month of December and a depressing FOUR defeats in a row - the latest coming against Wolves and Newcastle.
They discuss how much blame is on Ruben Amorim and rank our squad against other Premier League teams.
Do we have any chance of avoiding defeat at Anfield?
Well, the video clearly shows the Wolves player sticking out his foot and taking the ball well before he collides with Bruno, and it's not much contact. Bruno goes down as soon as he realizes what's happening.
It looks to me that Bruno is the only one to touch the ball. With his right foot. While the wolves player clatters into him on his left side.
Crazy the way an underlying bias can unearth so much detail from blurry, indistinct footage. You’ve even managed to read Bruno’s mind.
I definitely preferred the days when Manchester United fans tended to be biased in favour of our own players, mind you.
Bit of a weird one that. The video posted doesn't clearly show a damn thing. We'd need high quality close ups to know what happened there.
Don’t think Bruno is dim at all. The point is how inconsistent the ref was all through the match. The yellow on Yoro is fine, but then minutes later Amad is through, five yards to their 18 yard box on the wing, Gones tackles him from behind/side, and only gives a free kick. Idiotic by the ref, or incompetence.
It's classic cafe.
Rashy doesn't track back - gets loads of grief.
Bruno is fouled, and tracks back like a demon - gets loads of grief.
If only every player had that perfect mix of working hard yet never doing anything impetuous when losing the ball. Like those great players Keane, Cantona et al.
Seems fairly obvious, imo, doesn’t it? The only way the ball travels in that direcion is:
- Wolves player gets it first
- Bruno gets it first but Wolves player kicks Bruno’s leg onto the ball so that it changes the direction
Since he’s not clutching his foot in agony, i think the first alternative seems a safe bet and that Bruno is only unhappy about the barge.
We’d be livid if Ugarte got a foul against him for something like that.
Maybe harsh of me to say he went down.
I don’t mind him tracking back like a demon, but his first tackle attempt after getting up was daft, he then had a second tackle attempt that was also nowhere near the ball, then you have the third one which is also nowhere near the ball. Why stick his leg out for the final one which results in a free kick and a booking, there was no chance of winning the ball and the Wolves player didn’t really have many options apart from getting a freekick.
It was some daft play, but controlling emotions must be pretty tough at times.
I am really fearing for us at Anfield. Can you imagine the carnage an early goal could bring?
He’s an emotional guy, but three attempts where all three are pretty much him only going to foul the player without being near the ball is a bit stupid.
Not really looking forward to any matches
I don’t know why think that the only way we can be sure there’s contact is if Bruno clutches himself in agony considering, at the very least, the Wolves player bodies him to the ground. So why doesn’t he react to that by pretending he’s in agony?
It’s crazy to me how much the fans hate our own players. We see a United player get smashed in what is, at best, a heavy challenge and react by jumping to his feet and chasing that player the length of the pitch to try and win the ball back. And the response is to slag him off. Such a weird vibe going on with United fans these days.
Do you think it’s likely that the Wolves player kicked Bruno’s leg onto the ball without Bruno reacting to it at all?
Not sure why you’re venting towards me, i think it’s great that he’s chasing back, i just think it’s less great that he makes a series of attempts at fouling the opposition without having a chance of actually winning the ball, which is essentially asking the referee to be booked.
Yep, whilst Rashy just trots around, best example being when that Tottenham defender motored through our whole team about 3mins into the game. He might not have got near, but just casually jogging a few yards to the side and walking was dreadful.
Battling back is to be applauded. Giving the foul away not great, but hardly the biggest ever sin.
This what you posted originally, which is just wrong. Even if the wolves player got the ball, which I don't think he did, it was in no way at all 'well before'. Bruno went down because the guy clattered into him, but according to you, he didn't display the correct level of pain for it to have been a foul.
This has to be a WUM, right? Are you suggesting he was just limbering up?
His wind up starts as the opponent was behind him. A poorly timed elbow strike is still an elbow strike.
This has to be a WUM, right? Are you suggesting he was just limbering up?
His wind up starts as the opponent was behind him. A poorly timed elbow strike is still an elbow strike.
I’m suggesting he had no intention to actually elbow the guy. Because if he did, either he would have elbowed him or the guy would have had to dodge the elbow. Neither of which happened. Because he was a good yard past him when he started gesturing with his elbow.
Also, a deliberate elbow would never be that clearly telegraphed. It was a weird thing to do but looked like an attempt to draw the ref’s attention to what was going on rather than any genuine attempt to do damage. Watch the replay again.
Glad I amused you though. Not much fun in the football forums these days.
Football is a contact sport and imo Bruno hardly got clattered. Both Bruno and the Wolves player are moving towards the ball. If Bruno gets to the ball first, there’s no way the ball is going in that direction and at that speed unless the Wolves player makes a proper connection with Bruno’s foot. There appears to be no contact, Bruno doesn’t signal any contact. I think it’s fair enough he didn’t get the initial freekick. I would’ve preferred it if we did.
He looks around to see where the guy is and swings an elbow at head height in that area. In what world is a player doing that without the intention of elbowing the other player?
The idea that he'd be doing it to alert the ref doesn't make any sense either. He could be sent off for just swinging and any slight misjudgement and he actually hits the guy.
The footage is shot from a long way away, which causes foreshortening. I bet there was a good distance between them when he swung. Hence the ref wasn’t fussed. And even with the footage we have you can see a clear separation between the two of them.
Him failing to make contact doesn't mean he didn't try to. Watch him in the video, he's looking at the other player as he's doing it. That isn't a gesture to the ref swing.
In the world where the other player is a couple feet away which also happens to be the world we currently live in.
It's definitely a weird reaction, I don't think it had anything to do with the ref. I'd guess he just had a late reaction and it was more of a I'd feck this guy up if I could type thing.
Watch the video again, you can see how close their bodies are, there's not a couple of feet between them.
That angle is a bit deceptive though. I count one maybe two steps from when they're even to when the elbow was thrown.
Exactly. Plus he lifts his elbow, pauses for a fraction of a second, then swings. It’s definitely a “I could feck this guy up” sort of thing. It was a stupid thing to do and he did risk being sent off but I can see the reason why he wasn’t.
3 different angles. He's not past him when he starts swinging, his elbow goes over the other players shoulder a few inches from his face.
No matter the intention, and yes it is a weird one as it looks like a move of frustration rather than an attack, it should have been a red. A player simply can't be doing that.
The rules state regardless of contact so it really was the easiest red card in the world
Video unavailable but I'll take your word for it. Should be an easy red then.
I can’t see the video either but if it’s the same footage as the post immediately above yours it doesn’t contradict anything we’ve said.
Yeah, if a player swings an elbow violently near another player then it’s a sending off. We can’t have the refs interpreting whether or not they are pretending to try and smack them in the face. Truly bizarre decision.
Roy Keane unfortunately never landed his swing at Shearer and that was as simple a red as you will see given, don’t see how this is any different.
Yes but Roy tried to chin Saint Shearer, and you're not allowed do that.
Remember when Shearer kicked Lennon straight in the face and got away with it? Those were happier, more innocent times
Yeah I think he deliberately missed, but it's still a clear red.
I don’t think you’re allowed to elbow people in the face either?Yes but Roy tried to chin Saint Shearer, and you're not allowed do that.
Remember when Shearer kicked Lennon straight in the face and got away with it? Those were happier, more innocent times
All the same angles are shown in the ref watch video, this was just a YouTube short which had them all together.
It's also mad that because of VAR, even if they think the refs made a mistake, that a panel can't review the footage later on and give a red if it should have been given to the letter of the law. They can rescind them so they should be able to dole them out as well.
How is it a red card if he deliberately miss? If a player waves his boot in the air near another player’s leg do we treat that the same way as planting his studs in their knee? I’m on board with a player being sent off if he goes with his studs to try and hurt someone and the player jumps out of the way. But if the opposition player was never in any danger at all? That seems a bit nuts to me.
It's amusing for a couple of reasons. Firstly, because the logic is ridiculous. In order for your statement that "if he intended to hit him he'd hit him" to be true, then Pedro should immediately take up a combat sport because he's apparently unable to miss attempted strikes. Secondly, your statement that the opposition player was a good yard past him when he started "gesturing" (this deserves another one of these:
. He was winding up a strike) simply isn't true. Only by the end of the attempted elbow strike was the target in front.I don't doubt it was out of frustration, but it was still obviously lashing out, the inaccuracy of it is because Pedro was angry and doesn't have great elbow strike muscle memory, rather than flamboyantly drawing attention from the ref, as he could have done that with a hand wave, a shout, or just stopped running, something players do all the time.
I get what you're saying, but you can't allow players to throw a punch or elbow that close to another player. He didn't just waft his elbow in a slow manner to signal get off. If that had connected it would have been quite an assault. It's clearly a red and for good reason.
It's amusing for a couple of reasons. Firstly, because the logic is ridiculous. In order for your statement that "if he intended to hit him he'd hit him" to be true, then Pedro should immediately take up a combat sport because he's apparently unable to miss attempted strikes. Secondly, your statement that the opposition player was a good yard past him when he started "gesturing" (this deserves another one of these:
I don't doubt it was out of frustration, but it was still obviously lashing out, the inaccuracy of it is because Pedro was angry and doesn't have great elbow strike muscle memory, rather than flamboyantly drawing attention from the ref, as he could have done that with a hand wave, a shout, or just stopped running, something players do all the time.
“Elbow strike muscle memory”
seeing as we’re dishing them out. I don’t have much of that muscle memory myself but I guarantee I could elbow an unsuspecting target if I wanted to. Anyone could. It’s easy. No idea why you mention combat sports. In combat sports you don’t get to elbow people who aren’t looking at you and have no clue they’re about to be elbowed. feck it. Might as well give that a too.