VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion

[Lost bear]

The fact that every opposing player and coach sees how bad Onana is in the air and that he is incapable of catching or anticipating the trajectory of the ball is not the ref's fault. At this level if you have a weakness everyone will expose it.
That was not a foul and Bruno's yellow was deserved.
We lost because we were bad, not because of the ref.

It’s not an either/ or, though. The team made some mistakes but these were certainly exacerbated by ABU refereeing, and it wasn’t just today. There is a marked and clear tendency to feck utd over when it comes to 50/50 events, which are consistently given in favour of our opposition. That’s the only consistent thing, I would add, as the rules are applied to utd and our opponents quite differently.

 

[Thom Merrilin]

No offence but I think you're the first person to read the rulebook in years. The refs don't, the players don't, the fans don't and the pundits dont.

Yeah that's kinda what I'm getting at. What's the point in having rules if they aren't followed and people don't even know they exist?

 

[Doracle]

That Duran decision is awful. How do they not understand what’s happened there?

 

[Oranges038]

That Duran decision is awful. How do they not understand what’s happened there?

Not clear and obvious....

It's absolutely ridiculous that they can't just look at any decision and tell the referee he's made a balls of it.

 

[The Purley King]

That Duran decision is awful. How do they not understand what’s happened there?

Disagree with that it was clearly intentional.
Just lost his head for a second and did something he shouldn’t have done.
NO issues with that decision.

 

[Rio5]

Not really they just stood their ground.

As a keeper you should be getting players in there to protect you. Focusing more on any potential contact with a player than the ball is what leads to goals like this.

He needs to be stronger, get players around him and give himself space to attack the ball. He does none of these things.

How would it help to have more players in front of the keeper? 6 yard box used to be keepers zone where you cant really touch keeper. Im most annoyed that we havent realized it and use it on rare times we get corners, maybe because we dont have anyone to deliver the ball there

 

[Josep Dowling]

Second yellow no?

I can understand the moaning if Fernandes had been given a straight red but there's enough there for a second yellow for sure.

Didn't see much wrong with the goal either, Onana isn't getting that even if there's no one behind him.

The first yellow card should never happen because there was a clear foul by a Wolves player about 10 seconds before. The ref doesn’t give it and Cunha goes on a counter run. Bruno does what all players do and breaks the counter with a foul. His second looks soft as well but it is high. He should know better being on a yellow card.

 

[FootballHQ]

That Duran decision is awful. How do they not understand what’s happened there?

I was actually o.k with it. He was getting frustrated with some of our passes so a tussle with a CB and one of those things where he wanted to vent some anger. Problem is the visuals on looking like he was raking his studs down the back of Schar at real speed and not making it like he was trying everything to get his foot out of the way.

Seems we're appealing it anyway so see what comes of that.

 

[Doracle]

I was actually o.k with it. He was getting frustrated with some of our passes so a tussle with a CB and one of those things where he wanted to vent some anger. Problem is the visuals on looking like he was raking his studs down the back of Schar at real speed and not making it like he was trying everything to get his foot out of the way.

Seems we're appealing it anyway so see what comes of that.

His left foot quite clearly slips and not only that but he then clearly turns his ankle. This causes his balance to go and he has no control whatsoever on where his right foot then goes. No chance it’s deliberate. You will get that one rescinded.

 

[Oranges038]

How would it help to have more players in front of the keeper? 6 yard box used to be keepers zone where you cant really touch keeper. Im most annoyed that we havent realized it and use it on rare times we get corners, maybe because we dont have anyone to deliver the ball there

Because they are your players who are their to protect you as the keeper and create space for you to come and attack the ball. It's something you do on corners at all levels of the game. I swear it's like some people have never actually played football on here at times.

Onana did what Bayindir did last Thursday, no protection around him, initial positon is poor, he stepped towards the direction the ball was coming, in this case he also pushed the Wolves player and because of it he's trying to jump backwards to claim the ball and it goes over his head. Then he tries to claim a foul because he knows he fcuked up. It's rubbish goalkeeping.

 

[Nas-JR]

Because they are your players who are their to protect you as the keeper and create space for you to come and attack the ball. It's something you do on corners at all levels of the game. I swear it's like some people have never actually played football on here at times.

Onana did what Bayindir did last Thursday, no protection around him, initial positon is poor, he stepped towards the direction the ball was coming, in this case he also pushed the Wolves player and because of it he's trying to jump backwards to claim the ball and it goes over his head. Then he tries to claim a foul because he knows he fcuked up. It's rubbish goalkeeping.

I think it wasn't great goalkeeping, obviously, but the fact it happened twice in a week against us with two different goal keepers is not a coincidence. Cunha said they practiced that exact corner, to shoot rather than cross. They clearly highlighted how we defend corners and utilized it. As in, we offer no protection for the keeper so swamp him and push him around and send the cross in towards goal. How this has not been identified and addressed is absolutely mental coaching.

As a side note, he did take a step towards the near post, but that's because in the first half they crossed there all game and almost scored from one! I can't get my head around how many we've conceded from corners and set pieces. Shocking stuff.

 

[arnie_ni]

It would be if there was any contact, it was actually a dive from a player looking for it.

Think he lashed on a bit earlier in the same phase which could have been a yellow but yes the actual foul there was no contact

 

[duffer]

Because they are your players who are their to protect you as the keeper and create space for you to come and attack the ball. It's something you do on corners at all levels of the game. I swear it's like some people have never actually played football on here at times.

Onana did what Bayindir did last Thursday, no protection around him, initial positon is poor, he stepped towards the direction the ball was coming, in this case he also pushed the Wolves player and because of it he's trying to jump backwards to claim the ball and it goes over his head. Then he tries to claim a foul because he knows he fcuked up. It's rubbish goalkeeping.

All correct.

I get why some Man United fans are upset though because very often a goalie can punch and attacker in the face and nothing is given but if an attacker slightly brushes up against them they give a foul.

 

[Oranges038]

I think it wasn't great goalkeeping, obviously, but the fact it happened twice in a week against us with two different goal keepers is not a coincidence. Cunha said they practiced that exact corner, to shoot rather than cross. They clearly highlighted how we defend corners and utilized it. As in, we offer no protection for the keeper so swamp him and push him around and send the cross in towards goal. How this has not been identified and addressed is absolutely mental coaching.

As a side note, he did take a step towards the near post, but that's because in the first half they crossed there all game and almost scored from one! I can't get my head around how many we've conceded from corners and set pieces. Shocking stuff.

Yeah, Cunha planted one to the near post and Onana got there and cleared it. Lots of teams put that corner in regularly now, because teams don't put players on the post and leave the keeper free to be blocked. Arsenal put in about 10 of them. It's dangerous but can be dealt with quite easily by having defenders in there to protect the area around the keeper.

All correct.

I get why some Man United fans are upset though because very often a goalie can punch and attacker in the face and nothing is given but if an attacker slightly brushes up against them they give a foul.

If either player raised hands it's probably given as a foul, but just moving to a position and standing there holding your ground is never a foul. I get why people will look for a foul, because you see these getting given. But the keeper just has have protection and he has to be stronger, it's that simple.

There was a couple last night that annoyed me more, first half Amad used his body to roll the Wolves player. He was away down the wing, but the linesman gives a foul. Second half, same linesmen watches a Wolves player nudge Dalot from behind, run and cross the ball for the disallowed goal. No flag for a foul and no flag for a clearly offside goal.

 

[steve zizou]

One of the things that infuriate me most in football, and it seems to happen to United a lot post-SAF, is when a referee takes the moral authority to punish a player (often with a yellow) for a retaliatory tackle after waiving play-on on a much worse tackle on the player earlier in the sequence. Bruno's first yellow is a typical example.
The most egregious one I've seen is in the infamous Leicester 5-3 win during LvG. Clattencunt waives a clear shove on Rafael from Vardy and when Rafael returns the favour, he immediately gives a foul for a Vardy dive.

From 2:00

What's worse is because the team is not good atm, our fans will label it "our players are strong enough" we're getting bullied". And our managers also keep quiet. Even Jose.

 

[erikcred]

Almost an identical foul to the one on Onana was given in the Wimbledon vs Swindon match. He didn't cover himself in glory, but he was a bit unlucky on this on.

 

[Beachryan]

I'd be curious what other fans think tbh. I'm biased, but I really feel like the last 2 seasons (maybe 3 if you include the hunt on Casemiro) refs are really enjoying the liberty and freedom to treat United more harshly than other teams.

Even yesterday, in both instances, there will be dozens of identical challenges not given yellows, but this ref on this day decides to basically end the match. And this just a few days after Mike Dean confirming that even though Hojland should have clearly had a penalty, because it's a derby, you don't give those as a ref.

So I guess because this is away at Wolves and it's United you do give two yellows for those two tackles?

I honestly don't believe the ref would have done that to a 'no name' Wolves player at OT.

 

[Strangest Tribe]

They should make it mandatory that they come out after games like the manager and players do and give post match interviews to explain some of their decisions because it’s looking extremely fishy how often we’re screwed over, never happen obviously but it should do.

 

[The Hilton]

Think he lashed on a bit earlier in the same phase which could have been a yellow but yes the actual foul there was no contact

I don't remember seeing that, and I can't find a replay to rewatch it unfortunately, so I can't comment.

What the yellow was given for, however, wasn't even a foul, given the ref's treatment of Bruno I genuinely suspect he had it in for him.

 

[horsechoker]

Interesting incident with Joao Pedro for Brighton.

Throws a violent elbow but misses by an inch. Gets checked by var but doesn't get sent off.

 

[Ichabod Ferguson]

Interesting incident with Joao Pedro for Brighton.

Throws a violent elbow but misses by an inch. Gets checked by var but doesn't get sent off.

As ever refs showing themselves up not knowing the laws or just out right lying to protect their mates.

Violent conduct
Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person, regardless of whether contact is made.

In addition, a player who, when not challenging for the ball, deliberately strikes an opponent or any other person on the head or face with the hand or arm, is guilty of violent conduct unless the force used was negligible.

Throwing an elbow and missing is clearly covered under violent conduct, but we'll have to wait a few weeks for Howard Webb to say sorry for a decision that people who have never played the game would get right.

 

[horsechoker]

As ever refs showing themselves up not knowing the laws or just out right lying to protect their mates.



Throwing an elbow and missing is clearly covered under violent conduct, but we'll have to wait a few weeks for Howard Webb to say sorry for a decision that people who have never played the game would get right.

Making it up as they go along

 

[Sandikan]

One of the things that infuriate me most in football, and it seems to happen to United a lot post-SAF, is when a referee takes the moral authority to punish a player (often with a yellow) for a retaliatory tackle after waiving play-on on a much worse tackle on the player earlier in the sequence. Bruno's first yellow is a typical example.
The most egregious one I've seen is in the infamous Leicester 5-3 win during LvG. Clattencunt waives a clear shove on Rafael from Vardy and when Rafael returns the favour, he immediately gives a foul for a Vardy dive.

From 2:00

What's worse is because the team is not good atm, our fans will label it "our players are strong enough" we're getting bullied". And our managers also keep quiet. Even Jose.

That was a scandalous run of play. And probably what ruined Van Gaal, as after that game he utterly killed any joy from our game.

Vardy's barge was very obviously a foul, then it "looked" like Rafael was going to foul Vardy, but he didn't, yet Vardy dived very obviously.
Scandalous reffing.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'd be curious what other fans think tbh. I'm biased, but I really feel like the last 2 seasons (maybe 3 if you include the hunt on Casemiro) refs are really enjoying the liberty and freedom to treat United more harshly than other teams.

Even yesterday, in both instances, there will be dozens of identical challenges not given yellows, but this ref on this day decides to basically end the match. And this just a few days after Mike Dean confirming that even though Hojland should have clearly had a penalty, because it's a derby, you don't give those as a ref.

So I guess because this is away at Wolves and it's United you do give two yellows for those two tackles?

I honestly don't believe the ref would have done that to a 'no name' Wolves player at OT.

Yup. Apparently he’s an inexperienced ref not long in the Premier League. Obviously chomping at the bit to show he can discipline big name players. Bruno committed two fouls in total and got two yellow cards. João Gomes and Gonçalo Guedes of Wolves between them committed eight fouls and were booked only once.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

Incredible that Bruno first of all doesn't get a foul that 99% of players in this league would get and then gets booked for a nothing foul which is also his first foul in the game

 

[Sandikan]

Incredible that Bruno first of all doesn't get a foul that 99% of players in this league would get and then gets booked for a nothing foul which is also his first foul in the game

Yep, pretty sure every moaner has totally missed that super obvious foul.
Not even close to a debate.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Incredible that Bruno first of all doesn't get a foul that 99% of players in this league would get and then gets booked for a nothing foul which is also his first foul in the game

Not giving Bruno that first free is one of the worst decisions I’ve ever seen. The ref had a terrible game. Missed so many blatant fouls then came down far too harshly with those two yellow cards.

 

[bgoodall]

The refs have definitely contributed to this season’s downfall. Many calls during Ten Hag’s reign and now Amorim too. Would be nice to benefit from a call every now and then but apparently thats all going to Liverpool this year.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Interesting incident with Joao Pedro for Brighton.

Throws a violent elbow but misses by an inch. Gets checked by var but doesn't get sent off.

As ever refs showing themselves up not knowing the laws or just out right lying to protect their mates.



Throwing an elbow and missing is clearly covered under violent conduct, but we'll have to wait a few weeks for Howard Webb to say sorry for a decision that people who have never played the game would get right.

I think that was the correct decision. He didn’t try to elbow him and miss. He gestured with his elbow as a kind of “get the feck off me” movement but you could see he deliberately avoided making any contact.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

Bruno unfortunately has got a bad image now and doesn't get a lot of decisions. I understand that he isn't great physically but he does actually get fouled a lot and people get away with it because it's Bruno

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Interesting incident with Joao Pedro for Brighton.

Throws a violent elbow but misses by an inch. Gets checked by var but doesn't get sent off.

Feels like we’ve got the balance of rules wrong. Seem to punish people for minutiae (and inconsistently) but ignore the basics….

No idea what he actually intended but don’t really care. Act the big man, get carded.

 

[Parma Dewol]

Incredible that Bruno first of all doesn't get a foul that 99% of players in this league would get and then gets booked for a nothing foul which is also his first foul in the game

Such a clear foul on Bruno at the start of that passage of play. Infuriating.

Been happening for too long and what really gets my goat is the players and staff being apathetic. Where is the outrage? If we’re going to get so many needless suspensions it’s worth risking a fine, surely.

 

[horsechoker]

Feels like we’ve got the balance of rules wrong. Seem to punish people for minutiae (and inconsistently) but ignore the basics….

No idea what he actually intended but don’t really care. Act the big man, get carded.

If you fired a gun at someone and missed what would happen?

Don't even attempt to argue with me.

Clattenberg is saying that I can fire my sniper rifle at people without consequence and not face punishment

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Incredible that Bruno first of all doesn't get a foul that 99% of players in this league would get and then gets booked for a nothing foul which is also his first foul in the game

If this was the second yellow then you'd be raging, but he knew he was on a yellow and still did what he did.

19 year old Yoro was on a booking after 3 minutes and was flawless in his tackles afterwards, Bruno should be setting an example in these situations, but he's a liablity.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Feels like we’ve got the balance of rules wrong. Seem to punish people for minutiae (and inconsistently) but ignore the basics….

No idea what he actually intended but don’t really care. Act the big man, get carded.

He's either as bad with his elbows as Antony is with his right foot, or he did it knowing he'd miss.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I think that was the correct decision. He didn’t try to elbow him and miss. He gestured with his elbow as a kind of “get the feck off me” movement but you could see he deliberately avoided making any contact.

That's a very generous read of the incident I'd say... He's trying to elbow his head off in my opinion.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

That's a very generous read of the incident I'd say... He's trying to elbow his head off in my opinion.

I can’t watch that video but that one above shows yer man has already basically run past him when he swings.

 

[noodlehair]

They should start punishing play acting more.

Neto yesterday was shameful. Ref rightly ignored it and then karma served itself with the goal, but he was also on a yellow card and then tried to cheat, which is supposed to be another yellow card.

I don't get how waving an imaginary yellow card is a booking but blatantly trying to trick the referee into giving a card and then pretending to be hurt isn't.

 

[RedfromIreland]

Not giving Bruno that first free is one of the worst decisions I’ve ever seen. The ref had a terrible game. Missed so many blatant fouls then came down far too harshly with those two yellow cards.

Gallagher said on Sky Sports ref watch, “I was really impressed with the ref, he’s an up and coming ref, but I think he was great” or words to that effect.
The most obvious and yellow card worthy foul was when Amad got taken out shortly after Leny was booked.
It was blatantly obvious he was a homer.

 

[Withnail]

Gallagher said on Sky Sports ref watch, “I was really impressed with the ref, he’s an up and coming ref, but I think he was great” or words to that effect.
The most obvious and yellow card worthy foul was when Amad got taken out shortly after Leny was booked.
It was blatantly obvious he was a homer.

There was the incident near the start of the game where Mazraoui was fouled more than once by the Wolves defender on the edge of the box and the ref gave a goal kick. Also the one where he gave a free to Wolves for what looked like a perfectly fine turn by Amad to get away from his marker on the wing. He was very poor and completely inconsistent.