You seem to be getting yourself in a massive mess over nothing. The linesman thinks it’s offside, waits to raise his flag then raises it when the attack is finished (as instructed). VAR fails meaning that they go with the linesman’s decision, which was very obviously offside, due to his raised flag at the end of the move. What the issue?
VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion
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You seem to be getting yourself in a massive mess over nothing. The linesman thinks it’s offside, waits to raise his flag then raises it when the attack is finished (as instructed). VAR fails meaning that they go with the linesman’s decision, which was very obviously offside, due to his raised flag at the end of the move. What the issue?
The ball went backwards to the corner taker. Doesn’t that matter anymore?
He doesn’t think it’s offside hence keeping the flag down? He’s telling us with that action alone that he isn’t sure if it’s offside or not.
My issue is that if VAR is compromised then the entire move reverts back to non VAR protocols surely? How long can you give it before it goes down as missed?
The on-field decision is to let play go on and wait, because the linesman is in fact absolutely not sure about the decision. If he was, he would have raised his flag immediately. He is basically just signalling to VAR to have a look, but since VAR can't tell if it's offside - letting play go on - which is the original decision, should stand... it is the only thing you can do. Unless we're agreeing all refs should just guess if they're unsure. Pretty sure it has been stated that benefit of the doubt should go to the attacker.
You need to do your self and read the rules. The bit in bold just is not true.
The flag is left down because they are told to wait until the attack is finished, regardless of whether they think it’s offside. You’re hurting my head so I’ll leave it there
Exactly. Good that someone else sees that to. However, everything told now are just fairly tales. Nothing to believe in.
We need mic on referees and camera showing game from their point of view.
We need mic and cameras in VAR room for transparency.
We need explainations after games direct from referees and not some tweet from anonymous person. Like managers or players do.
How hard can it be.
You're saying The linesman shouldn't raise his flag if he is absolutely sure about a decision? I thought obvious offsides were fine, whilst marginal ones should benefit the attacker, by letting play go on and eventually do a review? In this instance, VAR overruled the original decision which was letting play go on.
I did debate putting "even though it was the FA Cup" in brackets, after the billion pound league bit tbh. I knew someone would mention it.
But I thought it was well known the FA Cup doesn't have the technology and it was only in use due to the fixture being in a Premier League ground. So thus the technology is very much the Premier League's system, protocols etc and it should be better.
Never did. There is nothing in the offside rule about the ball having to be played forward for it to be offside.
I had to check this myself a couple of years back, I think Kane ended up being offside in a similar situation and I was confused as to why it was given.
No, that’s not true. If they’re sure it’s offside they’re supposed to flag.The flag is left down because they are told to wait until the attack is finished, regardless of whether they think it’s offside. You’re hurting my head so I’ll leave it there
my gripe is they’re supposed to allow play to carry on. If play carries on then surely it goes down as missed without VAR? It’s literally played on. It’s only up in the result of a goal, if that play carries on for another 5-10 seconds and it’s given off then my point may be a bit clearer
Agree with the bolded part. Not a big fan of rugby, but hearing the discussion between the ref and the TMO is excellent. Granted, they’re discussing it as they’re watching it together usually as the ref seems to have access to a big screen in international rugby. But yeah, hearing the discussion is a must going forward.
No, he waits to raise his flag because he might be disproven by VAR and he should let the action finish. Not because he’s uncertain. But if VAR can’t disprove him (due to not seeing the player in question, or see where players’ limbs are due to them being tangled up or obscured) then the linesman’s decision stands, so there always has to be a decision from the linesman at the end of an action, which would serve as the basis for being proven wrong by VAR.
This is not so much the case for whether players are offside or not (because usually the players can be seen on camera), but there are other situations where subjectivity comes into offside, such as the Salah one where it’s a matter of subjectively deciding whether he is active or interfering. In that situation, the linesman could’ve decided that he was interfering, thus raising his flag, and the onus would’ve been on VAR to prove that he clearly and obviously wasn’t interfering. But since the linesman’s decision for the Salah goal was that he didn’t interfere, then it’s hard to overturn it on the subjective aspect of whether he was active or not.
Really?
That’s not true. If they’re sure it’s offside then they’re supposed to flag. Look at Villas disallowed goal v City this season. Linesman was certain and flagged.
There's more evidence to say this was likely onside than it is that he was possibly offside.
Looks like they just wanted any excuse to disallow it.
Looks like they just wanted any excuse to disallow it.
He thinks it’s offside, that’s why he raises his flag after the action is finished. They’re only encouraged to flag early if there’s no chance they’re wrong, say if the player’s five yards offside.
How in the world is the linesman supposed to know that the VAR camera is missing that guy so that he needs to revert to pre-VAR protocols?
He lets play go on until the goal is scored, then signals that he’s seen an offside in the build-up. Then VAR has the opportunity to disprove his decision, but because it doesn’t have the right angle it can’t do that in this instance. I really don’t see what the problem is here, apart from people who get angry over things they show a big lack of understanding about.
Which Wolves player is heading the ball in that exact frame? JFC I like having a moan but come on.
I didn’t say it was the linesman fault. I’m saying if he was sure then he would have flagged sooner and judging my thoughts pic I saw of him being 3/4 years inside from a bout a second after the Wolves player headed it then we can be certain he want sure at all
Yes if they’re sure as in the player’s three yards offside. But if there’s a chance they might be wrong (like here) then they should wait until the action’s over, and then give their decision.
Yep, it just happens so infrequently that a lot of people have never seen it. The player has to be ahead of the ball when it is played, so it’s difficult for an offside to happen where the ball goes backwards. Corner takers are obviously the most likely candidates.
You really don’t understand the point of waiting to raise the flag, do you? You can be sure of something but still wait as to not ruin the attack for the team.
Jesus man, that’s not the rule. If that’s the case then why on earth would a linesman ever raise the flag after waiting for the play to be over. It would be irrelevant. Completely pointless.
They've used these cameras at Anfield for 2+ years and this is the first time they've realised that they don't cover the entire pitch? Something is rotten in VAR.
Yeah, should have been a red.
That's only the rule for the defenders. Deliberate act and all that and I even think that rule changed after the mings city incident a couple of years back
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They aren't allowed to flag sooner. They have to let the attack play out. It happens week after week. The commentators always moan about it and say someone is going to get injured at some time
Just seen the salah goal. Been complaining about this rule quite a few times.
That rule need changed. When the ball is played to salah he is offside. The defender only attempts to play the ball because salah is there, ergo if salah wasn't there and offside the defender wouldn't attempt to play the ball so the flag should go up and the goal should be disallowed.
The rule makers have never played a game of footy in their life.
Edit, has this rule changed? If so how is it not offside..
That rule need changed. When the ball is played to salah he is offside. The defender only attempts to play the ball because salah is there, ergo if salah wasn't there and offside the defender wouldn't attempt to play the ball so the flag should go up and the goal should be disallowed.
The rule makers have never played a game of footy in their life.
Edit, has this rule changed? If so how is it not offside..
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That's not the new rule.
They always raise flag at the end of the play now. There're few exceptions but this isn't it.
The point being there's VAR now so lineman is not allowed to kill a potential chance before it begins
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The daft thing is that several times a season that rule is shown to be broken, yet they'll make no attempt to change it.
It's just common sense which they seem to have very little off
Thanks for this. Lopetegui has said in the press conference as well that he saw the angle from their own tactical camera.
Wolves were robbed.
Everton's goal last night obviously was overshadowed by De Gea, but Varane was forced to initially clear the ball with an Everton player in an offside position. Maybe that one was a phase or two top early to be looked at anyway, but the rule is so stupid and such an obvious one that needs to be addressed.
Whatever about Salah's goal, the winner for Wolves is a shocker and they must be absolutely raging. You can tell with the naked eye that TAA's back foot is playing Nunes on.
Benzemas disallowed goal in the CL final was because Fabinho did not intentionally touch the ball to Benz.. what inconsistencies
Salahs goal was offside as per Dale Johnson's tweet.
And Wolves goal was onside as per the fan footage. There is no need for a replay. How much benefit do Liverpool need to be given to go through.....
And Wolves goal was onside as per the fan footage. There is no need for a replay. How much benefit do Liverpool need to be given to go through.....
Have we found out why that was offside yet?
Liverpool get benefit of the doubt in all decisions today so that's why in truth
Corruption