VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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I think we call all agree that the offside law is poorly written at least. None of us can agree on what the law actually means.
Rio Ferdinand and Joe Cole said it was correct to give it as offside on TNT sport.
Another issue with VAR is that as far as I'm aware, it's practically unlimited in scope.
The scope should be narrowly defined based on what is specifically being reviewed. For instance, if a play is being reviewed for offside, the ref shouldn't be able to discover a foul elsewhere and make a ruling on that instead.
The scope should be narrowly defined based on what is specifically being reviewed. For instance, if a play is being reviewed for offside, the ref shouldn't be able to discover a foul elsewhere and make a ruling on that instead.
Well firstly he's physically touching him, secondly yea all he has to do is give a reason to the defender to follow him. That's the rule.
Yea, there was no argument, quick straight to the point.
That implies that the defender was going to "play the ball" but was then impeded.
I've read them. I just disagree with you.
The automated stuff I have no issue with but the manual elements of var are always going to be bollocks because it still the same incompetent morons making the decisions, now it just takes significantly longer to come to decisions that still nobody agrees upon and takes away a lot of the excitement and emotion of watching live games. If it worked to actually more or less eliminate contentious decisions then maybe but the sport and in particular the laws of the sport are not setup to allow that in the first place so its never going to happen, its essentially a bolted on solution that will never work in my opinion and my enthusiasm for the sport might just start to recover if they got rid of it altogether because as it stands I'm struggling to even bother watching united games live and I cant even remember the last non-united game I watched because I just don't see the point when you can get the same level of excitement by watching the highlights later (i.e not very much).
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Is anyond keeping tabs on the number of VAR decisions that have gone against us?
Including goals disallowed (at least 3 that k can remember), pens not given (spurs), pens given against (eriksen, rodri), plus all the deicisons in normal play that were very soft but weren't overturned (Sheffield pen, Copenhagen pen). This feels like it's been going on for two years now!
Ill add decisions as I go along. I forgot the Evans goal too.
Including goals disallowed (at least 3 that k can remember), pens not given (spurs), pens given against (eriksen, rodri), plus all the deicisons in normal play that were very soft but weren't overturned (Sheffield pen, Copenhagen pen). This feels like it's been going on for two years now!
Ill add decisions as I go along. I forgot the Evans goal too.
No. You disagree with the rules.
Yes or no question: Did he challenge the defender for the ball?
Even though we are playing shite I want to see Ten Hag going absolutely ape shite about that offside decision. I’ve been saying this for weeks but we need to continue to totally drive the narrative that the refs and VAR are against United if it is ever going to change.
Liverpool had 1 bad decision this season, Klopp made a huge deal about it and they have been benefiting from soft decisions since.
We need our manager, players, fans, journalists and pundits to absolutely power through the narrative that everything is against us. We need to make an absolute storm about it.
It won’t happen though, our manager is too quiet, our players don’t really care, our fans are too busy focusing on every negative within the club, our journalists are too busy creating dressing room leaks and if Gary Neville does come up for air and manages to get his nose out of Klopps arse for 2 minutes it will only be to praise the “brilliant” decision the referee made with that offside goal in the first half against Fulham today.
Liverpool had 1 bad decision this season, Klopp made a huge deal about it and they have been benefiting from soft decisions since.
We need our manager, players, fans, journalists and pundits to absolutely power through the narrative that everything is against us. We need to make an absolute storm about it.
It won’t happen though, our manager is too quiet, our players don’t really care, our fans are too busy focusing on every negative within the club, our journalists are too busy creating dressing room leaks and if Gary Neville does come up for air and manages to get his nose out of Klopps arse for 2 minutes it will only be to praise the “brilliant” decision the referee made with that offside goal in the first half against Fulham today.
He's physically touching him because he's ahead of him and the defender is actively fouling him.
And by this logic even if they were in the centre of the box it would be offside - which obviously isn't the case.
Let's agree to disagree then. Not sure what else I can say other than I don't think Maguire did what is required to be called offside.
Really hope Someone does a video of all the VAR decisions United were involved in this year, with comparisons of other matches with same decisions going other way. Ie. Romero handball, which Dermot Gallagher even avoided when brought to his attention
No, since the defender never had possession of the ball.
See it's so easy to contort the law because of how it's written.
Amongst a group of people who also don’t understand the rules. Enjoy that.
The defender challenges him.
How can a defender have possession of the ball?
Then he isn't defending anymore. Are you winding me up?
I edited that post, didn't mean to be so snarky. Imagine a ball gets cut out to an offside player as he challenges for the ball at the same time. That's when a defender can have possession and an offside player call challenge that defender for the ball.
My opinion is that the call was very harsh but whatever. You can make arguments for it being correct and you can make arguments for it being wrong.
What irks me so much is that, time and again this season, it seems as though a disproportionate amount of time is being given to VAR reviews for decisions that rule against us and not enough when one would go in our favour. The City penalty and now this are two very recent examples.
@RuudTom83 is correct to point out that, if you slow a replay down enough, zoom in hard enough, and look at it for long enough, you're probably going to find something that could justify a penalty being given, a goal being ruled out, a red card being shown etc. This is the issue I have with VAR. It seems that there are some incidents where they'll want to perform these very very thorough checks, and some which they're happy to be done with after 30 seconds. Unfortunately, my perception (and to be clear, it is purely perception at the moment) is that we are too often on the wrong end of those incidents where they decide to be thorough.
One solution I've seen proposed, which I somewhat see merit in, is a time limit within which VAR must make a decision. This would include refs being sent to the monitor, so that couldn't just be used as a loophole. If VAR cannot determine that an error has been made by the on-field ref after, say, 90 seconds (the precise amount of time is arbitrary), then the referee's original decision should stand. There will still be disagreements and inconsistencies but at least then you won't have some incidents receiving much more VAR scrutiny than others for seemingly no reason at all.
What irks me so much is that, time and again this season, it seems as though a disproportionate amount of time is being given to VAR reviews for decisions that rule against us and not enough when one would go in our favour. The City penalty and now this are two very recent examples.
@RuudTom83 is correct to point out that, if you slow a replay down enough, zoom in hard enough, and look at it for long enough, you're probably going to find something that could justify a penalty being given, a goal being ruled out, a red card being shown etc. This is the issue I have with VAR. It seems that there are some incidents where they'll want to perform these very very thorough checks, and some which they're happy to be done with after 30 seconds. Unfortunately, my perception (and to be clear, it is purely perception at the moment) is that we are too often on the wrong end of those incidents where they decide to be thorough.
One solution I've seen proposed, which I somewhat see merit in, is a time limit within which VAR must make a decision. This would include refs being sent to the monitor, so that couldn't just be used as a loophole. If VAR cannot determine that an error has been made by the on-field ref after, say, 90 seconds (the precise amount of time is arbitrary), then the referee's original decision should stand. There will still be disagreements and inconsistencies but at least then you won't have some incidents receiving much more VAR scrutiny than others for seemingly no reason at all.
Yep, ESPN track it every year.
Going into this gameweek we were the most negatively impacted, on a net -3.
Worth noting they're judging overturns. So if a bad decision is made on pitch and upheld by VAR, that won't feature as VAR hasn't actually impacted the decison. ESPN are just counting the times VAR actually changed the on-pitch call.
Oh yeah, those famed intellects.Rio and Joe Cole agreed with me so its all good.
Have a good weekend mate x
My issue is that we appear to be getting ALL the decisions against us when there has been exactly the same instances in other games where VAR hasnt even looked at. ETH and United need to speak up just like Klopp and Pep do.
No it’s not.
Yes it is.
Every single one of your complaints is about implementation, rather than the principle. Right now it's set up to avoid undermining officials, rather than correcting mistakes, and so everything takes longer than necessary so the focus is only goals rather than everything else.
But it isn’t. Nothing in the rules about following or touching an offside player. It was disallowed on the basis that he has impacted the Fulham defender’s ability to play the ball. That’s why it was subjective. Anything else is just fluff.
Another week another game another VAR decision
But following by definition does affect a defenders ability to play the ball.
No it doesn’t. They’re both heading towards the ball and it was out of reach for both of them.
Interesting, exact same tackle and Paulinho didn’t get a yellow card
VAR is meant to reduce the issues that come with incompetent officials, the issue with it is that it's run by those same incompetent officials and their main concern is to avoid undermining incompetent officials rather then fixing mistakes.
Getting rid of VAR would be awful, as it'll be a victory for the incompetent officials, who are operating it in a self serving way rather than trying to improve. Instead the maximum amount of automation and transparency needs to be forced on them.