That's a perfect summary, if it was down to me I would be after Kroos and one of Sanches, Kanté or Lassana Diarra. Since Kroos is only 26 we could have the luxury of signing a young or an old midfielder without problem.
Toni Kroos
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That's a perfect summary, if it was down to me I would be after Kroos and one of Sanches, Kanté or Lassana Diarra. Since Kroos is only 26 we could have the luxury of signing a young or an old midfielder without problem.
I agree with you. Modric hasn't been as good as he has been before the injury. A great game every now and then, but generally he's not on that level.
Still, Kroos is much slower (less agile, slower feet and doesn't cover as much ground), he doesn't have that level of close control, he can't dribble, while Modric is a really good dribbler who likes to draw players on to him before releasing a pass or just dribbling past them (something Kroos never does because he simply can't). Modric always looks for that vertical pass before playing it sideways, while Toni really, really likes to pass it sideways. Modric is also a better defender and he has no problem playing a physical game even if he's small and light. Kroos never gets physical and often ends the game with his shirt just as white as it was when the game started. Feels like he always plays with the same pace and urgency which is simply slow.
Yes, Kroos has been misused in Madrid, but that doesn't help his case, for me he's not in the same league as Modric, the little guy is just so complete that I find it funny when people compare him to Kroos who is limited physically and plays sideways passed most of the time.
I disagree with a lot in that. For a start, I'm fairly certain that Kroos covers more ground than Modric. (I've seen stats about their distance covered and Kroos is almost always on top, similarly Kroos covered the most ground after Müller for Germany at the World Cup, both in total and on average). I get that Kroos isn't a high energy box to box midfielder sprinting back and forth, but he's nowhere near as lazy as some try to point out. Modric is a better dribbler and more adventurous passer. Not necessarily a better one ability wise, but he takes more risks. Overall though, I'd argue that Kroos has much better defensive positioning and workrate and Modric would be exposed a lot more if he was forced to play the holding midfield role like Kroos has done often in the last 18 months. It's no coincidence that 3 managers at Real tried Kroos in that role next to Modric and never the other way round (although it's in general simply too lightweight against elite teams and doesn't work). Kroos also has excellent off the ball movement to make himself constantly available for his teammates. He just plays the game differently to Modric, not necessarily less effective though (at least if used correctly).
I agree with the criticism about Kroos' lack of urgency in many games, but he has showed he can do it in big games quite a few times, so to me it feels like it gets heavily exaggerated. He needs the platform to shine and he needs a manager who encourages him to do that, Heynckes gave him both and we saw some magnificent performances against elite teams from Kroos, like for example the CL semifinals against Real in 2012. Kroos ran the show for us, dropped deep and build up the play, ran with the ball through midfield, created chances upfront. It was such a fantastic and mature performance in high pressure games. Similarly he showed his class constantly at the World Cup and despite his big blunder in the final, he was overall the best CM of the tournament and the heartbeat of the World Cup winning side in most games. Zonalmarking put it well in my opinion:
http://www.zonalmarking.net/2014/07/24/world-cup-2014-best-xi/
The Xavi comparison really isn't far off in terms of how both play the game (not in terms of quality of course) and maybe even a bit similar in terms of the criticism they faced for way too long in their careers before people started appreciating their worth.
The notion that having done all that at the ago of 26 makes him 'just a decent midfielder' and he shouldn't even be compared to Modric, who himself so far had a rather short peak at the elite level, seems a bit silly.
I like Kroos but if he moves I think it will be to City - just a guess.
In terms of a Carrick replacement, Weigl at Dortmund looks a very good young player. Can't see us having a chance of getting him though.
In terms of a Carrick replacement, Weigl at Dortmund looks a very good young player. Can't see us having a chance of getting him though.
Forgets stat. Kroos joggs around slowly while Modric hustles and runs all over the pitch for 90 minutes.
It would be interesting to see what @carvajal or @Vato think about this.
Modric played that role for a couple of games at the beginning of 2013-2014 season when Xabi was injured and he's been better there then Kroos ever was.
That's because they could not afford to waste Modric there. Sideway passing Kroos can't do what Modric does for our attack.
Again, Kroos doesn' look for a vertical pass and there's zero penetration in him. You can't create anything like that in this Real Madrid team.
And now come to why Modric is twice the player (imho). He doesn't need any of that to shine, because his game is so well rounded.
You talk about Kroos and his game for hard working Bayern side and German NT. That's all fine, but in this Real Madrid team where midfield is exposed all the time, he's just a passenger.
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Your bias is not masked.
What's there to mask. Even if we bring it down to idiotic FIFA level comparison and watch youtube compilations of both players, you can see how incredibly limited Toni is in comparison to Modric.
To begin with Modric make more sideway passes and he plays shorter passes, secondly Kroos isn't incredibly limited he uses different tools maybe you don't like those tools, maybe you want something different but it doesn't mean that one is limited and the other isn't. Kroos is a rhythmic passer, his game is based on three things control, pass and move and he can make all the passes you can dream about, Modric is more grafter, he is a bit like Verratti when Kroos is more like Scholes, I'm strictly talking about style.
Personnally I like both styles and I love both players, I have a preference for Modric and Verratti but Kroos is also a great player.
From what I remember you switched between Modric-Khedira behind Özil in a 4231 and Modric further forward with Khedira - Illarramendi behind him in a 433 until Xabi came back and played regularly. That's in no way comparable to the role Kroos was forced to play for large parts of his time at Real.
Anyway, I'll leave it at that.
I think Kroos is good enough to build a team around tbh.
So Kroos is a rhytmic passer. Modric is that among other things, that's my point.
Kroos has been here for two seasons, and throughout all of this time Modric was considered as our second most important player by 90% of journalists, TV pundits and fans. The other 10% consider him the most important player in the team.
Our last season epic meltdown after Modric got injured just confirms this, and don't forget we played 4-4-2 at the time.
The problem is that you consider that because Kroos isn't suited to your team, he is inferior to Modric which is wrong. It's just that the role given to him at Madrid isn't his best role. I was curious to see where he would play at Madrid because I thought that it was a stupid move for everyone involved, like it will be a stupid move to replace Thiago Motta with Kroos.
It's the Gerrard-Lampard, Schweiny-Xabi Alonso, Sneijder-Van der Vaart conundrums, people want both of them at the same time when they can't play together because while they play the same roles, they don't do it the same way and require a different cast around them.
FWIW I am with you on this issue. I don't see how anyone could prefer Kroos over Modric if they were to build a team from scratch. Modric is the ultimate modern day central midfielder and his form may have dipped but you could put Modric in any team in the world and he would enhance it, whether it be small or big or any style.
Kroos for me can be great in the right set up but is less versatile and can be a hindrance in certain tactical set ups. Just by looking at them (taking the stats out of the equation), you can tell who is the better player. It is not a close contest for me.
Oh come one man, how can you say that Kroos is not inferior footballer to Modric. I'll name you 10 things Modric does much better then Kroos. You name me one thing, one thing at which Kroos is significantly better at.
Btw, Kroos is now playing LCM with Casemiro behind him and Modric. Just watch how Modric manages to close down the right wing when Bale and Carvajal get caught (and he's supposed to be more offensive then Kroos). I don't see that happening on the left side. Toni "I have only first gear" Kroos plays at his pace all the time and it shows.
Again, he's suited for a hard working team where everyone covers for each other. Real Madrid is not that team, it's a team that asks for more from it's midfielders and so far it looks like it's asking too much from Kroos.
Kind of similar to Uniteds midfield and why I don't want him here.
Modric is a much better player than Kroos imo. Don't ask me to explain why because I can't, it's just what my eyes tell me.
I prefer Modric too although I think that are very different players. Last year it was Modric - Kroos ,Kroos - Modric , especially during the great run they had at the end of 2014 . During those days all the press was in love with Kroos. This year Modric has stolen all the protagonism is the field.
As a fan I have to admit that sometimes is difficult to maintain the idea about a player without being carried away by the vagaries of the press, something very common in Spain, time the players are shattered with detailed analyzes that nobody cared before.The latest is remind his defensive mistakes.
When Madrid bought him we all took for granted that he would play in the position that had in Germany, where if I remember well was playing quite far from the area.
If I had to define him without hearing the opinion of any expert I would say that is a very elegant player . Very valid to control the game, for possession and for a clear beginning of the play , however I find that sometimes it is a very flat player with few variants . I have a feeling that his presence goes quite unnoticed.
Probably it will sound excessive but reminds me to an excellent version of Gago , too short pass but little verticality.He is not fast and has 0 dribbling . I really can not see him in a more forward position where those shortages would be noticed much more.
One thing I do not like about Kroos is the usual sentence "Madrid does not use him where it should ".
An elite team can not afford to fit every player in his particular position , unless he scores 60 goals a year or gives 40 assists.
From a United transfer market point of view I think it would be a very appropriate option to add some quality to the midfield.
As a fan I have to admit that sometimes is difficult to maintain the idea about a player without being carried away by the vagaries of the press, something very common in Spain, time the players are shattered with detailed analyzes that nobody cared before.The latest is remind his defensive mistakes.
When Madrid bought him we all took for granted that he would play in the position that had in Germany, where if I remember well was playing quite far from the area.
If I had to define him without hearing the opinion of any expert I would say that is a very elegant player . Very valid to control the game, for possession and for a clear beginning of the play , however I find that sometimes it is a very flat player with few variants . I have a feeling that his presence goes quite unnoticed.
Probably it will sound excessive but reminds me to an excellent version of Gago , too short pass but little verticality.He is not fast and has 0 dribbling . I really can not see him in a more forward position where those shortages would be noticed much more.
One thing I do not like about Kroos is the usual sentence "Madrid does not use him where it should ".
An elite team can not afford to fit every player in his particular position , unless he scores 60 goals a year or gives 40 assists.
From a United transfer market point of view I think it would be a very appropriate option to add some quality to the midfield.
People thinking Kroos won't be good enough for us whilst we still have Fellaini at the club 
People thinking Kroos won't be good enough for us whilst we still have Fellaini at the club
Maybe the same who think Zlatan is not good enough for the club
On a more serious note, Schweini is not so successful but is much older
Yeah zlatan leading the line or ash young?? Haha I joke obviously that's exaggerated but people need to realise the state of the playing squad we currently have when considering who to bring in and what would and wouldn't be an upgrade.
This sums up Real Madrid's failure to dominate despite being capable of attracting better players than anyone else and outspending everyone else. All the other teams try to build balanced, functional midfield units that help to get the best out of everyone in the team. Real Madrid shoehorns big name players into the team and expects them to do stuff they're not good at. Then complain about the players that they're not up for the job. It's fine though as long as the superstar upfront can hunt individual awards.
Agreed, Stick a dm like Kante in behind Kroos and Modric and you have one of the best midfields in the world. That's not how things work at Madrid though, I mean they did afterall sell Makalele and replace him with Beckham.
Don't want Kroos.
Every time I see him play for Madrid I wonder why he's actually on the pitch considering he contributes absolutely bloody nothing.
Every time I see him play for Madrid I wonder why he's actually on the pitch considering he contributes absolutely bloody nothing.
Probably is Madrid fault although I think that a top midfielder should be able to dominate and keep the level without depending so much about the position.
Which is for you his best position? He has played some games protected by Casemiro and still he didn't impressed like before
Imagine that Paul Scholes was slightly less adept at passing, had no aggression, didn't score spectacular long range shots, wasn't a great at volleying the ball, wasn't good at following into the box and scoring, was crap in the air and was blonde instead of ginger - then you have Toni Kroos.
Come on now, it's definitely more like "imagine that Paul Scholes had impregnated some German Fraulein when he was 16 and they had a son who grew up looking to be a really similar version of the football player his dad was."
Statistically Kroos looks to be as good a passer as Scholes was in his last five years - if not better (according to whoscored). And then stylistically, his passing looks about as good too, I think.
I also had the idea he showed some pretty spectacular long range shooting over the years.
Now the first two goals in that video are not impressive, but many goals in that video would make good old Scholesy proud.
All in all I'd say this Kroos kid is a pretty good player and there actually aren't many better out there (I do agree that Modric somehow 'feels' even more special though). This would probably explain why he's just turned 26 and already has won pretty much every throphy out there and has played for Bayern Munchen and Real Madrid. Really good player.
@Henrik Larsson
Kroos is not similar to Scholes. He is half the player because Scholes could play as a 10 and score 20 goals in a season.
Kroos is not similar to Scholes. He is half the player because Scholes could play as a 10 and score 20 goals in a season.
This seems like a very pointless argument though, if we sign Kroos as a center mid and play him in that position why would it matter what he can or can't do as a 10?
Kroos is the cherry on top of the cake but unfortunately we don't have cake. Kroos would be nothing but a lonely cherry for us.
It's always difficult to judge players without getting a decent run in a role. For what it's worth, I'm not impressed with Kroos so far for Real no matter what way you set up. But then, I'm not impressed with Modric's performances for pretty much a year now either, which kinda triggered the discussion between the two here, because it seems like Kroos gets a lot more criticism for similar performances while Modric continues to be hailed as playing at an elite level when he doesn't so far this season.
I think both Modric and Kroos would benefit from a smart holding midfielder next to them, who isn't totally clueless on the ball but mainly does have positional awareness and discipline to play that role. Casemiro is in theory a good idea, but simply not up for the job at an elite level. His limitations cause as many problems as he solves by being in the side. For the more attacking partnerships, Isco seems to be a great fit next to Kroos in tactics that want to have more control over the game. James in my opinions fits better to Modric in a more direct set-up. What's to me pretty clear is that neither as a midfield 2 nor as a midfield 3 with a holding midfielder behind them, Kroos and Modric should play together. They don't complement each other, actually quite similar how Thiago and Kroos never really worked well together at Bayern and it was always only one of them having a good game while the other one looked rather underwhelming. They never really made each other better as you'd want it from a midfield partnership.
In general, I think that Modric would benefit from a better tactical midfield set-up as well. For all the talk about his brilliant allround ability, you still have to concede possession to ridiculous levels and rely almost solely on counterattacks whenever Real wants to have success against a top midfield. If you don't do that, you at best get totally open games like for example against Dortmund in 13/14, that could go either way. Or you struggle to break down a deep sitting defense like Atletico and lose more often than not. The whole idea that it's only Kroos who actually needs a platform to excel while other quality midfielders don't, seems crazy and a massive exaggeration. And it also hides the underlying longstanding problems in your team. There's of course nothing wrong with playing on the counter and the individual quality in Real's team means that a counterattacking set-up will lead to some success in cup competitions, but in the grand scheme of things considering the ability of the players, the money spent, the hype around the team it's all really a bit underwhelming for quite some time.
What I do get is if people find Kroos' way of playing the game boring, I feel the same way and don't really miss him at Bayern even though he performed better for us than Thiago or Alonso do now. He's still quality though and many of the posts in this thread about all his apparent flaws are just silly.
He scored once 20 goals, and his second most productive season was 14 goals. Now, that is much better than Kroos, but if you look only in seasons when Scholes played as a central midfielder, then his output was around the same as Kroos' for Bayern.
While they aren't obviously the same player (and yes, Scholes was better, it isn't even debatable), he is the closest thing to Scholes in football. And he is an extremely good player who can further improve.
I think Veratti is closer. Similar passing ability but he also has the aggression that Scholes had.
I always thought that Veratti is a bit more like Pirlo, but that might be because of their nationality.
Anyway, Kroos, Veratti, Thiago are essentially Scholes, Pirlo and Xavi of this generation. And also the best midfielders of this generation together with Gundogan, Koke and Pogba.
None of those attackers have the attacking quality of Scholes though. The ginger prince was actually fantastic in the air too, although he didn't get much chance to show it.
Absolutely love Kroos as a player, however if we are going to sign him we would have to move to a midfield 3 with the point backwards not forwards. Schniderlin in behind Kroos and Herrera could quite possibly work.
Thanks for your reply @Balu . Today it happened more or less what you say . On the radio they were talking about the great game of Modric and the little contribution of Kroos.
We'll see what happens this summer. Apparently he wants to leave
We'll see what happens this summer. Apparently he wants to leave
We should have already tbh
Well yeah but that would make too much sense to LVG. He already proved that worked his ego says he must now prove something else
The Guardian says City will bid £37m for Kroos. I don't think he'd leave Real, but I would take him for that amount in a heartbeat.
I'd bundle him off in a plane quicker than the CIA could have circa 2002.
Edit: FFS, I read it is United bidding and cause a lot of false hope. I had a fit of transfer muppretry. Sorry, y'all!
I'd bundle him off in a plane quicker than the CIA could have circa 2002.
Edit: FFS, I read it is United bidding and cause a lot of false hope. I had a fit of transfer muppretry. Sorry, y'all!
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