Toni Kroos

My dream midfield, assuming Rooney will be in midfield next year would probably be, Kante, Kroos & Rooney.
 
Kroos needs defensive minded midfielder to help him out. Didn't work out with Kroos and Modric for Real (remember last year and this season El Classico in Bernabeu). Casemiro solved that problem. Rooney is no Casemiro.
You've got a point there, however speaking of a midfield of three there is still one vacancy left. Schneiderlin could be that guy, or rather someone like Kanté. Real played with someone like James in front of Kroos and Modric, that's a suicide setup, imo. Anyway, we could do with a big squad and lots of options. Sadly, it's unlikely.
 
You've got a point there, however speaking of a midfield of three there is still one vacancy left. Schneiderlin could be that guy, or rather someone like Kanté. Real played with someone like James in front of Kroos and Modric, that's a suicide setup, imo. Anyway, we could do with a big squad and lots of options. Sadly, it's unlikely.
That still does not work. You need a ball carrier midfielder/ extreme elegant on ball to run and force the opponent to change shape in center area (Modric). Rooney is not elegant on ball nor explosive as in his young age. Schneiderlin doesn't offer this... we only know if we sign Kante. No evidence we're in...
 
Not PL proven anyway. You'll likely dodge a bullet here.
 
Why would the both of them not work out? Kroos plays alongside Modric, Kroos sits deeper and Modric is the one whose responsible for the more adventurous passing. Rooney could be our answer to Luca Modric. :D Na kidding, but the part Benzema plays for Real, if that's what Mourinho wants to see. One thing is sure, Rooney has to be higher up the pitch, we need his shots on target. His passing game is okay, but comparing Kroos with Rooney, Rooney ain't that good as a deep-lying playmaker. So we could do with one, imo.

I don't think Rooney works in the Benzema role as an attacking pivot, I suppose Rooney could play behind Ibra but I think that is what we are buying Mkhitaryan for. Obviously Kroos is miles better than Rooney as a CM but until we can move Rooney to the bench at least I think that playmaker CM spot is his.
 
Kroos needs defensive minded midfielder to help him out. Didn't work out with Kroos and Modric for Real (remember last year and this season El Classico in Bernabeu). Casemiro solved that problem. Rooney is no Casemiro.

Spot on, which is the reason why I think Kanté or an in form Schneiderlin would actually be an ideal partner for him. Basically like Khedira just in good.
 
My dream midfield, assuming Rooney will be in midfield next year would probably be, Kante, Kroos & Rooney.

What sort of dream is that where playing Rooney is forced upon you? :lol: Anyway I don't think we'll end up with a marquee midfielder this summer, probably will get that Valencia lad, provided we can ship Fellaini away. Definetly don't think we'll be in for Kante, probably will put faith in Schneiderlin to provide the goods in DM position.
 
What sort of dream is that where playing Rooney is forced upon you? :lol: Anyway I don't think we'll end up with a marquee midfielder this summer, probably will get that Valencia lad, provided we can ship Fellaini away. Definetly don't think we'll be in for Kante, probably will put faith in Schneiderlin to provide the goods in DM position.
Schneiderlin DM? Did you watch the first half at West Ham?
 
I would take him back at Bayern any day. Selling him was the only major point that I didn't like about our recent transfer policy.
 
Schneiderlin DM? Did you watch the first half at West Ham?

I'm not going to judge a player based on a single game, he had an allright season overall. On top of that, a new manager is coming in, new players will come in, and that might bring out the player he was meant to be when he was bought. We all know what he can do and that's why he's here.
 
I'm not going to judge a player based on a single game, he had an allright season overall. On top of that, a new manager is coming in, new players will come in, and that might bring out the player he was meant to be when he was bought. We all know what he can do and that's why he's here.
My judgements of our midfield are based on the critical moments. I just recently rewatched what I consider the most critical times for our team this past season: 1)the first 20 minutes against Arsenal when the midfield of Carrick & Schweinsteiger (and Herrera iirc.) were legless and playing without spirit. The defence was helpless as Arsenal enjoyed undisputed possession and every defender was faced with having Arsenal midfielders running at them left right and centre as well as having to deal with their own direct opponents(forwards). None of our midfielders were prepared to take the bit between the teeth and provide even an instance of resistance and the onslaught was relentless.
2) The Spurs game in which Carrick & Schneiderlin (and Herrera iirc.) produced a similar lacklustre performance and the same level of complete domination. In both games the opposition used the occasion to target Darmian and that policy proved to be ultimately fruitful, but Darmian is the subject of another thread. The same result: a defence under siege and Blind not only having to deal with Kane, but Alli, Lamela et al. charging in on goal unattended as well.
3) the West Ham performance, a crucial game in which CL footy was up for grabs. Schneiderlin was paired with Herrera (and Rooney ahead of them). Another spiritless effort in which the midfield was overrun and the defence besieged. When Schneiderlin was charged with bringing the ball out from the back, he misplaced several passes. West Ham sensed his fear and made it even more difficult for him. This meant that our whole system for transitioning from defence was disjointed. He even passed sideways to Blind because he was afraid of passing forward. His defensive positioning can be quite good if the opposition attacks are slow and less frequent. But West Ham proved that if relentless pressure is applied, he is lost in no man's land and fails to impact the contest. Even Van Gaal knew that Schneiderlin was lost and was force to bring in Carrick at half time. With Carrick, in the end, we were no better as West Ham stormed home in the last 10 minutes.
All of this is compounded by Herrera's defensive efforts which are so lamentable, but I'm not even going to start on that topic.
The thing is, you want to ship Fellaini, the one midfielder who would actually put up a fight when the pressure is turned up. That's something I can't agree to no matter how many posters stand against me.
 
Not PL proven anyway. You'll likely dodge a bullet here.

Neither Mahrez, Vardy or Payet were PL proven either.
Managers sometimes need to take a chance, if they find players they think fit into their system.
Or philolzophololsy if you prefer that term :)
 
The thing is, you want to ship Fellaini, the one midfielder who would actually put up a fight when the pressure is turned up. That's something I can't agree to no matter how many posters stand against me.

I agree. I was against him coming but last season he won me over. He had a better season than all our other midfielders bar Carrick. He worked hard and provided some fight. I would keep him over Herrera, who i think can be easily upgraded.
 
Neither Mahrez, Vardy or Payet were PL proven either.
Managers sometimes need to take a chance, if they find players they think fit into their system.
Or philolzophololsy if you prefer that term :)

I wasn't actually serious about this:lol:
 
I wasn't actually serious about this:lol:

I wasn't sure when i read it, but it's something people keep saying everytime we're linked to a player, either he's PL proven or not :p
 
This has got to go down as the dumbest thread this year. I can't think of a less getable midfielder in the world tbh.
Yeah I've seen no credible source saying that Madrid will sell him or that he actually wants to leave. At least before Di Maria left, some negative press about him was being put out by the Madrid media machine and he'd made some negative noises too. With Kroos, I don't see/ hear anything.
 
Schneiderlin DM? Did you watch the first half at West Ham?

We're not really going to start judging players on a half of football?

Over the course of his career he has proven he is a top quality player. Another year at United and a top manager at the helm hopefully he has a good season.
 
I don't see him leaving without a new shiny object in queue to replace him. Is Madrid reliability linked to someone that could take Kroos' spot?
 
"Münchner Merkur" reports a "super rumour" that he prefers a return to Bayern. Spanish and english media led by "Confidential" are named a sources. Reason: His wife can't settle in spain and he already worked wirth Ancelotti. Complementary information: one or two months ago, the tenant (a certain Mr. Alonso) of Kroos' munich house was told he had to leave because of "personal need".
 
We're not really going to start judging players on a half of football?

Over the course of his career he has proven he is a top quality player. Another year at United and a top manager at the helm hopefully he has a good season.
I don't dispute that he's a good player. I'm disputing the wisdom of deploying him as our deepest lying mid.
 
"Münchner Merkur" reports a "super rumour" that he prefers a return to Bayern. Spanish and english media led by "Confidential" are named a sources. Reason: His wife can't settle in spain and he already worked wirth Ancelotti. Complementary information: one or two months ago, the tenant (a certain Mr. Alonso) of Kroos' munich house was told he had to leave because of "personal need".
A funny rumour that was indeed..what a load of BS from the Spanish media again. Kroos stated not long time ago, that he ll never come back to Munich and he fired some shots against Rummenigge and Hoeneß. Pep and Sammer wanted to keep him, but the laughable wage offer and the depreciation in general pissed him off..rightfully. For me still the biggest management failure of this century.

Then its already known, that Kroos is building a house in the Cologne region instead and just wants to sell his house in Munich, cos no need for it anymore. He never felt at home in Munich. The nonsense about him being not happy in Spain was also denied by Jessica Kroos:



I really ndislike that Falk clown from SportBild, but he is absolutely right with his article about that situation and describes it as nonsense too..even Mr. clueless knows how laughable that rumour is.

http://sportbild.bild.de/fussball/l...hte-um-toni-kroos-quatsch-46466762.sport.html
 
My judgements of our midfield are based on the critical moments. I just recently rewatched what I consider the most critical times for our team this past season: 1)the first 20 minutes against Arsenal when the midfield of Carrick & Schweinsteiger (and Herrera iirc.) were legless and playing without spirit. The defence was helpless as Arsenal enjoyed undisputed possession and every defender was faced with having Arsenal midfielders running at them left right and centre as well as having to deal with their own direct opponents(forwards). None of our midfielders were prepared to take the bit between the teeth and provide even an instance of resistance and the onslaught was relentless.
2) The Spurs game in which Carrick & Schneiderlin (and Herrera iirc.) produced a similar lacklustre performance and the same level of complete domination. In both games the opposition used the occasion to target Darmian and that policy proved to be ultimately fruitful, but Darmian is the subject of another thread. The same result: a defence under siege and Blind not only having to deal with Kane, but Alli, Lamela et al. charging in on goal unattended as well.
3) the West Ham performance, a crucial game in which CL footy was up for grabs. Schneiderlin was paired with Herrera (and Rooney ahead of them). Another spiritless effort in which the midfield was overrun and the defence besieged. When Schneiderlin was charged with bringing the ball out from the back, he misplaced several passes. West Ham sensed his fear and made it even more difficult for him. This meant that our whole system for transitioning from defence was disjointed. He even passed sideways to Blind because he was afraid of passing forward. His defensive positioning can be quite good if the opposition attacks are slow and less frequent. But West Ham proved that if relentless pressure is applied, he is lost in no man's land and fails to impact the contest. Even Van Gaal knew that Schneiderlin was lost and was force to bring in Carrick at half time. With Carrick, in the end, we were no better as West Ham stormed home in the last 10 minutes.
All of this is compounded by Herrera's defensive efforts which are so lamentable, but I'm not even going to start on that topic.
The thing is, you want to ship Fellaini, the one midfielder who would actually put up a fight when the pressure is turned up. That's something I can't agree to no matter how many posters stand against me.

Watch how he played for Saints then !
 
Watch how he played for Saints then !
I know he can play. I'd like to see him winning the ball for us higher up the pitch. I'd like to see him play some passes into attack, getting on the same page with the forwards, not coming from the back. Too many posters stick him in as #6 and think their team looks good on paper, but their teams are really paper-thin. We need a #6 more than anything. Schneiderlin/Fellaini are decent #8 options. Rooney/Herrera are possibly decent#10 options. But we can't just rely on Carrick as our solitary hope at #6. If we can't buy a decent #6 I'd be sticking Mensah in there simply because there's no other options, but I'd prefer to keep Mensah for deployment wherever troublespots appear in defence or midfield. A #6 is our most vital requirement. Whether it's Kante to screen the defence and win the ball at the base of midfield, or Krychowiak or whoever. #6 is more vital than an upgrade in any other midfield position.
 
I know he can play. I'd like to see him winning the ball for us higher up the pitch. I'd like to see him play some passes into attack, getting on the same page with the forwards, not coming from the back. Too many posters stick him in as #6 and think their team looks good on paper, but their teams are really paper-thin. We need a #6 more than anything. Schneiderlin/Fellaini are decent #8 options. Rooney/Herrera are possibly decent#10 options. But we can't just rely on Carrick as our solitary hope at #6. If we can't buy a decent #6 I'd be sticking Mensah in there simply because there's no other options, but I'd prefer to keep Mensah for deployment wherever troublespots appear in defence or midfield. A #6 is our most vital requirement. Whether it's Kante to screen the defence and win the ball at the base of midfield, or Krychowiak or whoever. #6 is more vital than an upgrade in any other midfield position.

Agree with the points you made. But its not just about screening the defense. I have actually said many times about this here that we need a replacement for carrick. He wins the balls and also plays the incisive pass to the front 4 too and no one in the current united side is able to do that. Kante is ball winner but he is no playmaker to me . He could replace Schneirdlein but not carrick. Mensah is not that guy for me . Players like Carrick are very few in the market . The only one who could do the job straight forward is Verrati /Koke for me.

There are younger players though . Players like Tielemans/Neves/Saul could have that ability. As you said if we are planning to buy a CM then I hope its someone who could replace Carrick in the long term. If not then stick with the options we have and hope Mensah/Goss could turn out to be useful ( though a right winger is a must ).
 
Agree with the points you made. But its not just about screening the defense. I have actually said many times about this here that we need a replacement for carrick. He wins the balls and also plays the incisive pass to the front 4 too and no one in the current united side is able to do that. Kante is ball winner but he is no playmaker to me . He could replace Schneirdlein but not carrick. Mensah is not that guy for me . Players like Carrick are very few in the market . The only one who could do the job straight forward is Verrati /Koke for me.

There are younger players though . Players like Tielemans/Neves/Saul could have that ability. As you said if we are planning to buy a CM then I hope its someone who could replace Carrick in the long term. If not then stick with the options we have and hope Mensah/Goss could turn out to be useful ( though a right winger is a must ).
Those are very good points. You have more idea than me about what is out there. Kante and Mensah are not to be regarded as playmakers as such, but they will win the ball and carry it off half back. They can both pass pretty well if they're not exactly worldies. But I take your point about the need for someone to dictate with quality precision passing and setting the tone for attacks in that way.
 
Before Zidane put Casemiro in the team to balance the midfield I used to openly question what Kroos actually did on the pitch.

He's awful in a two and needs a destroyer to work in a three because he's useless defensively and not very mobile. He's not as good as Schweinsteiger was at his best either.
 
Didn't Zidane and Kroos have a bit of a spat? Over him being substituted in the champions league final or have I dreamed that?
I think he'd be a great signing but just can't see it.
 
Before Zidane put Casemiro in the team to balance the midfield I used to openly question what Kroos actually did on the pitch.

He's awful in a two and needs a destroyer to work in a three because he's useless defensively and not very mobile. He's not as good as Schweinsteiger was at his best either.
Very similar to my view. Kroos' role is like Pirlo's (all passing and positionally defensive than dirty his clothes defending). Not that Kroos' style is like Pirlo's or Kroos reaches Pirlo peak level.
 
My judgements of our midfield are based on the critical moments. I just recently rewatched what I consider the most critical times for our team this past season: 1)the first 20 minutes against Arsenal when the midfield of Carrick & Schweinsteiger (and Herrera iirc.) were legless and playing without spirit. The defence was helpless as Arsenal enjoyed undisputed possession and every defender was faced with having Arsenal midfielders running at them left right and centre as well as having to deal with their own direct opponents(forwards). None of our midfielders were prepared to take the bit between the teeth and provide even an instance of resistance and the onslaught was relentless.
2) The Spurs game in which Carrick & Schneiderlin (and Herrera iirc.) produced a similar lacklustre performance and the same level of complete domination. In both games the opposition used the occasion to target Darmian and that policy proved to be ultimately fruitful, but Darmian is the subject of another thread. The same result: a defence under siege and Blind not only having to deal with Kane, but Alli, Lamela et al. charging in on goal unattended as well.
3) the West Ham performance, a crucial game in which CL footy was up for grabs. Schneiderlin was paired with Herrera (and Rooney ahead of them). Another spiritless effort in which the midfield was overrun and the defence besieged. When Schneiderlin was charged with bringing the ball out from the back, he misplaced several passes. West Ham sensed his fear and made it even more difficult for him. This meant that our whole system for transitioning from defence was disjointed. He even passed sideways to Blind because he was afraid of passing forward. His defensive positioning can be quite good if the opposition attacks are slow and less frequent. But West Ham proved that if relentless pressure is applied, he is lost in no man's land and fails to impact the contest. Even Van Gaal knew that Schneiderlin was lost and was force to bring in Carrick at half time. With Carrick, in the end, we were no better as West Ham stormed home in the last 10 minutes.
All of this is compounded by Herrera's defensive efforts which are so lamentable, but I'm not even going to start on that topic.
The thing is, you want to ship Fellaini, the one midfielder who would actually put up a fight when the pressure is turned up. That's something I can't agree to no matter how many posters stand against me.

Think Herrera was injured for the Arsenal game and he didn't play agiainst Spurs, which is telling because he's the type of player that would thrive in those games (against teams that play football through the middle and he able to match the technique and match the physical side too).

Against West Ham he bottled his chance to to step up but it was clear his form and confidence was completely shot. I don't think Herrera's defensive efforts are bad, they're just misguided. He presses space AND the man. It leaves him vulnerable if his team mates are not equally closing the same space and runs. It's why he's pick up fouls a lot.
 
Think Herrera was injured for the Arsenal game and he didn't play agiainst Spurs, which is telling because he's the type of player that would thrive in those games (against teams that play football through the middle and he able to match the technique and match the physical side too).

Against West Ham he bottled his chance to to step up but it was clear his form and confidence was completely shot. I don't think Herrera's defensive efforts are bad, they're just misguided. He presses space AND the man. It leaves him vulnerable if his team mates are not equally closing the same space and runs. It's why he's pick up fouls a lot.
If Herrera missed the away games at Arsenal and Spurs I obviously made an oversight and I apologize for that.
But yeah, he needs to play for the ball alot more when he's defending. Giving away fouls in Payet territory is asking for trouble.
 
Agree with the points you made. But its not just about screening the defense. I have actually said many times about this here that we need a replacement for carrick. He wins the balls and also plays the incisive pass to the front 4 too and no one in the current united side is able to do that. Kante is ball winner but he is no playmaker to me . He could replace Schneirdlein but not carrick. Mensah is not that guy for me . Players like Carrick are very few in the market . The only one who could do the job straight forward is Verrati /Koke for me.

There are younger players though . Players like Tielemans/Neves/Saul could have that ability. As you said if we are planning to buy a CM then I hope its someone who could replace Carrick in the long term. If not then stick with the options we have and hope Mensah/Goss could turn out to be useful ( though a right winger is a must ).

Those are very good points. You have more idea than me about what is out there. Kante and Mensah are not to be regarded as playmakers as such, but they will win the ball and carry it off half back. They can both pass pretty well if they're not exactly worldies. But I take your point about the need for someone to dictate with quality precision passing and setting the tone for attacks in that way.
At risk of spilling the Future Planning: Replacing Carrick thread, I'd like to point out it might be better to replace Carrick in abilities spread across a midfield three than a player that can do most of what he does. That sort of player is hard to come by if available at all.

Kroos doesn't have his screening ability and Kante doesn't have his passing. If--in my muppet alternate reality--United got both, I don't think Carrick would leave quite the void.