The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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I half want the congress to fund the wall just to see how the Cliven Bundy types react when the Federal government uses eminent domain to seize their lands for building the precious wall.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
I agree with your sentiment but I don't see their current strategy of just repeating "no wall" as playing any long game. I see that as the ultimate in short term thinking. The establishment Democrats are mutating into a variation on the Obama era- Republicans where they don't even stand for anything they are just so obsessed with hating Trump and every single Trump says they have forgotten what they are supposed to be fighting for in the first place.

I agree with your goal of not giving in. Where I disagree is that their current strategy will be successful. I don't believe it will. I believe their current strategy is just going to result in Schumer and company capitulating and giving in to some 50% wall compromise.

Whereas I believe the long term gains of demanding something progressive and positive in return for any wall funding (give us green new deal and agree to the amendment to overturn Citizens United) to be far more effective long term strategy than what they are currently doing.
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I see what you're trying to do here but I really don't see the equivalence. Trump and Obama aren't the same people. Republicans hated Obama and it had absolutely nothing to do with policy. As crazy as it sounds, he was a centrist and was more than willing to compromise and negotiate with Republicans for the sake of the country. Trump needs to be stopped, checked and balanced. Everything he proposes and suggests should be taken with a huge grain of salt simply because he's been compromised by a foreign government and most importantly, his conflict of interest regarding his businesses. We would never know if Trump is trying to please his base, the Russians or doing something for his own financial benefit. At the end of the day he NEEDS to be checked as what he's doing would have a lasting effect on the US for decades in a seriously negative way. One of the worst things he did was pull out of that Iran deal...why?...No one would trust the US during any kind of negotiations going forward, even after Trump.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
COR-TEN steel is very resistant to corrosion and the patent is owned by US Steel.
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Fine in temperate climates and so long as you don't want to paint or coat it and are happy with rust red. In warmer and more humid climates and areas of high salinity the steel can actually corrode at a greater rate, conditions which are found along much of the southern border.
 
Bury Red said:
Fine in temperate climates and so long as you don't want to paint or coat it and are happy with rust red. In warmer and more humid climates and areas of high salinity the steel can actually corrode at a greater rate, conditions which are found along much of the southern border.
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Fair argument except that most of the southern US that borders Mexico is an arid desert.

To be fair, though, I doubt that that Trump knows corten exists.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
Fair argument except that most of the southern US that borders Mexico is an arid desert.

To be fair, though, I doubt that that Trump knows corten exists.
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I'd imagine the salt would still make it a no-no. The walls I've built in Oman, UAE, Saudi etc all use polymeric reinforcement rather than steel and any reinforced concrete there is waterproofed where it is in contact with the sand to prevent the high salinity conditions in the sands migrating into the steel and blowing it but corten can't be waterproofed or painted as that can lead to black rust..
 
InfiniteBoredom said:


Put together like this, it’s actually hard to believe any normal, thinking person wouldn’t look at this abomination and go ‘yeah, he’s full of shite’.
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Yeah, the man is full of shite. Nicely put!

But don't forget that nobody knows more about negotiations than him. This wall business is the equivalent of me going into McDonald's and demanding a free Big Tasty with bacon, coming out after "negotiating" them down to giving me a box of cold chips for £10, and swaggering back to my car shouting "I FECKING KNEW I WAS THE BEST AT HAGGLING!"
 
Bury Red said:
I'd imagine the salt would still make it a no-no. The walls I've built in Oman, UAE, Saudi etc all use polymeric reinforcement rather than steel and any reinforced concrete there is waterproofed where it is in contact with the sand to prevent the high salinity conditions in the sands migrating into the steel and blowing it but corten can't be waterproofed or painted as that can lead to black rust..
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Wow! I didn't realise that the Mexicans were trying to cross illegally in Oman, UAE and Saudi too. We need to get the Mexican Govt to pay for that wall too.
 
Il Prete Rosso said:
I see what you're trying to do here but I really don't see the equivalence. Trump and Obama aren't the same people. Republicans hated Obama and it had absolutely nothing to do with policy. As crazy as it sounds, he was a centrist and was more than willing to compromise and negotiate with Republicans for the sake of the country. Trump needs to be stopped, checked and balanced. Everything he proposes and suggests should be taken with a huge grain of salt simply because he's been compromised by a foreign government and most importantly, his conflict of interest regarding his businesses. We would never know if Trump is trying to please his base, the Russians or doing something for his own financial benefit. At the end of the day he NEEDS to be checked as what he's doing would have a lasting effect on the US for decades in a seriously negative way. One of the worst things he did was pull out of that Iran deal...why?...No one would trust the US during any kind of negotiations going forward, even after Trump.
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I don't disagree with your overall point. But what I am talking its not so much about Trump and Obama being equivalent but rather the response of the opposition party that is equivalent. Its not that Trump is the 'Republican version of Obama', but that the opposition party is overfocusing on what the President is doing rather than offering their own ideas.

I don't see checking Trump and pushing progressive policy ideas as mutually exclusive things. We can do both at the same time. This is why Ocasio-Cortez is so popular because she keeps talking about progressive policy and still holds her ground in checking Trump. Its like the establishment Dems can't walk and chew gum at the same time. As I said about this current showdown, its possible to check Trump in a way that flips the conversation to shine a spotlight on more progressive issues. I don't accept the premise that the only way to check Trump is to keep falling into his framing while ignoring progressive policies.

To further explain what I mean here is emeritus cognitive linguistics Professor George Lakoff,

Lakoff said:
By faithfully transmitting Trump’s words and ideas, the press helps him to attack, and thereby control, the press itself.

Trump knows the press has a strong instinct to repeat his most outrageous claims, and this allows him put the press to work as a marketing agency for his ideas. His lies reach millions of people through constant repetition in the press and social media. This poses an existential threat to democracy.

Language works by activating brain structures called “frame-circuits” used to understand experience. They get stronger when we hear the activating language. Enough repetition can make them permanent, changing how we view the world.

Even negating a frame-circuit activates and strengthens it, as when Nixon said “I am not a crook” and people thought of him as a crook.

Scientists, marketers, advertisers and salespeople understand these principles. So do Russian and Islamic State hackers. But most reporters and editors clearly don’t. So the press is at a disadvantage when dealing with a super salesman with an instinctive ability to manipulate thought by 1) framing first 2) repeating often, and 3) leading others to repeat his words by getting people to attack him within his own frame.
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https://www.theguardian.com/comment...w-to-report-trump-media-manipulation-language
 
Drifter said:
Sen. Mitch McConnell has a problem – And it’s Donald Trump

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/sen-mitch-mcconnell-has-a-problem-and-its-donald-trump
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It's definitely something that this kind of thing is on Fox News but the author is a Democrat so grain of salt

Mary Anne Marsh is a Democratic political analyst and a principal at Dewey Square Group in Boston where she provides strategic counsel for Fortune 100 companies, non-profits and political campaigns.
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Bury Red said:
I'd imagine the salt would still make it a no-no. The walls I've built in Oman, UAE, Saudi etc all use polymeric reinforcement rather than steel and any reinforced concrete there is waterproofed where it is in contact with the sand to prevent the high salinity conditions in the sands migrating into the steel and blowing it but corten can't be waterproofed or painted as that can lead to black rust..
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It might be a challenge. Although for four to five monthsbof the year we salt the feck out of corten in Toronto and it seems fine. Aesthetically, it's very pleasing and would fit in nicely in the south-west colour palette.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
I don't disagree with your overall point. But what I am talking its not so much about Trump and Obama being equivalent but rather the response of the opposition party that is equivalent. Its not that Trump is the 'Republican version of Obama', but that the opposition party is overfocusing on what the President is doing rather than offering their own ideas.

I don't see checking Trump and pushing progressive policy ideas as mutually exclusive things. We can do both at the same time. This is why Ocasio-Cortez is so popular because she keeps talking about progressive policy and still holds her ground in checking Trump. Its like the establishment Dems can't walk and chew gum at the same time. As I said about this current showdown, its possible to check Trump in a way that flips the conversation to shine a spotlight on more progressive issues. I don't accept the premise that the only way to check Trump is to keep falling into his framing while ignoring progressive policies.

To further explain what I mean here is emeritus cognitive linguistics Professor George Lakoff,



https://www.theguardian.com/comment...w-to-report-trump-media-manipulation-language
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If you saw last night's 60 minutes piece with Anderson Cooper, she actually mentions why she doesn't mention Trump much, in that she views him as a symptom of something more pervasive. This is the appropriate position for progressives to take imo - focus on the value of progressive ideas/policies and let Trump's negativity take care of itself.
 
Raoul said:
If you saw last night's 60 minutes piece with Anderson Cooper, she actually mentions why she doesn't mention Trump much, in that she views him as a symptom of something more pervasive. This is the appropriate position for progressives to take imo - focus on the value of progressive ideas/policies and let Trump's negativity take care of itself.
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I did actually and I thought it was the most refreshing interview I heard from a Democrat Congressperson in my entire lifetime. I also just saw the movie Vice yesterday so the whole "Trump as symptom" concept was really reinforced by Dick Cheney's life.
 
Raoul said:
If you saw last night's 60 minutes piece with Anderson Cooper, she actually mentions why she doesn't mention Trump much, in that she views him as a symptom of something more pervasive. This is the appropriate position for progressives to take imo - focus on the value of progressive ideas/policies and let Trump's negativity take care of itself.
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Checking Trump is not attacking him for the sake of attacking him. Or looking for ways to attack him.
The Democrats must simply keep him honest. it is their job. The house is responsible for the nations purse string.

At the same time the Democrats need to put forward their agenda to help Americans.
 






He's on a roll today hating the fake news! All this comes after him making an incredibly embarrassing video that had him asking everyone to read the papers...... Obviously he's had thousands of replies saying "But aren't they fake news?" :lol:
 
Red Dreams said:
We laugh at him.

He is getting exceedingly dangerous to this country.
The House Democrats are the only ones who can hold him in check.
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Or Mitch McConnell.

I'll wait for everyone to stop laughing.
 
niMic said:
That's such an outrageously dangerous thing for the President of the US to be saying. The fact that it alone isn't toppling him says a lot about what kind of bizarro-world we're living in right now.
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Agreed. Stuff of dictators.
 
RedChip said:
'Humanitarian crisis'. What a despicable lot.
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They're trying to make the democrats out to be heartless, the recent compromise that was sent to Congress was the 5 billion for the wall but also included 800mil to cover extra facilities for apprehended border crossers.

Trump will come out and say "look, I've offered money to help the poor families and kids at the border but the Dems STILL say No"!
 
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