Innnnnteresting
The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated
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I missed this earlier today
https://www.wired.com/story/robert-mueller-special-counsel-investigation-team
https://www.wired.com/story/robert-mueller-special-counsel-investigation-team
Also, I'm totally going to be the first to steal "It's Mueller Time" from twitter to use here 
I may have to pick up a 6 pack for the shows tonight.
CNN up to speed as usual
CNN up to speed as usual
Seems like one of the most likely things they'd get him on. All the Russia stuff seems to inevitably stop just short of properly reaching Trump directly, but this came across as quite obvious and damning in his involvement.
Why am I not surprised? Trump could live to be a billion and still not posses as much class as Obama does in his little finger. Jeez, Obama rescued the USA's reputation from years of Bush and Cheney and Trump has undone all that and more inside 6 months. It's frightening, it really is.
All the juicy stuff happens just before my bed time .
And yes I know how that sounds.
.And yes I know how that sounds.
Is it happening?
CNN had one of the reporters on who said the FBI were the ones who started investigating Trump days after Comey was fired.
MuellerON
I don't get Gingrich's character assassinations, outside of him just being an angry asshole. I presume a) he's very close/loyal to Trump (and the wife job thing), and/or b) he's sweating his name showing up in an investigation.
B-ON-b Mueller.
RONbert MueONller
RONbert MueONller
Trump will fire Mueller, no? What's he got to lose at this stage?
Wouldn't surprise me one bit.
Fascinating. Can see Trump going down the same path. Everything we know about his character and temperament suggests there's no way he's just going to let the notoriously honest, straight-laced Mueller carry on with this investigation.
Newt is an opportunist, he's loyal to anyone who pays and if not, then he's loyal to the TV shows that pay. If Trump goes down he will change his tune to fit, as will most of his supporters.
To me, that's what is most interesting in all this, exactly how much collateral damage will their be? Will Trump end up ruined? Will his kids fall with him? Will his vocal supporters like Newt and Ryan? And what about Fox News? For starters it should end Hannity and definitely those morons on Fox & Friends. It would be nice to think they all fall together, but I guess that's just wishful thinking.
It's not quite that simple.
1. Trump himself cannot fire Mueller. It has to be done by the Attorney General, Jeff Sessions.
2. Sessions has recused himself from all things Russia, so the task would then fall to his Deputy, Rod Rosenstein.
3. Rosenstein has said he won't fire Mueller while he is still in the job unless there is "good cause", which is an actual legal definition and not some arbitrary nonsense conjured up in Trump's head.
4. Therefore Trump would have to fire Rosenstein and replace him with an obedient sycophant who is willing to fire Mueller.
5. If Trump were to initiate the firing of Mueller by doing all those things, the Congress would then reinstitute the independent counsel statute that would restart the process (probably with Mueller in charge again), this time in an independent council role that Trump can't affect.
6. If all of these things happened, it would be so blatantly obvious that Trump is guilty of obstructing justice, that the Congress would overwhelmingly vote to impeach. Even the most hardcore Republicans would not be able to withstand the crushing public pressure to get rid.
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Amazing times. Bizarre to see a great country like America embroiled in this mess, but it's turning into quite a thriller.
If Trump had just kept his mouth shut about Russia all along he might be in a much safer position. I can honestly see him going down the path you've laid out for him there. Especially if he truly is guilty.
Is Sessions recusal legally binding and non-negotiable?
Or can he do what Nunes has done and nitpick what he meant when everyone thought he recused from the Russia probe?
It's not legally binding but it would obliterate his credibility to zero if he reversed his recusal just to do Trump's dirty bidding. Both Sessions and Trump would likely be under investigation at that point because it would be obvious that Sessions was legally culpable of obstructing justice on Trump's behalf.
As we're about to reach page 1000 of this thread, things are finally turning to the better. Question to the legal minds: Could this realistically be the end of king Joffrey's time in the white house?
We're probably about 1 year or more away from Mueller releasing results. What may accelerate Trump's demise is if he continues to attempt to shut things down and fire people, which will be interpreted as yet another attempt to obstruct justice. That may actually sink him in the end.
After all that's happened, it just wouldn't surprise me if Sessions got involved. They just dont care about looking guilty or obstructing justice.
the End game may be Trump pardoning everyone before resigning and having Pence pardon him.
Except that Sessions and anyone else who does Trump's bidding are now in legal jeopardy of obstructing. As in, they could go to jail. That's a very strong incentive to back away and allow the investigation to unfold without interference.
I doubt Pence would do that. He certainly would be under no obligation to do so if Trump was blatantly guilty.
What if Pence is involved too?
Pence is Ted Cruz style religious nutter. He's merely using the Trump train to position himself for the Presidency, which is looking increasingly likely.
Even if he isn't, his association with Trump puts him in legal jeopardy. As in, if he was in meetings where Trump talked about shutting down the investigation then he has legal exposure.
Yes of course, like an accomplice because he didn't report witnessing illegal activity? I get that. If that is the case though then him lining himself up for the Presidency is kind of a waste of time really isn't it? I completely agree that is what he has been thinking and doing though. I just wonder how long it has been his plan? If we are perfectly honest here Trump must repulse every bone in his body, and for someone who wont even be alone with another woman in any situation he must be constantly at complete odds with himself. I think Pence must be able to rationalise it by telling himself that the ends justify the means and that him passing laws he believes in will make up for what and who he has aligned himself with and to what he has been complicit in.
Pence has been almost unseen or heard from since the election really, even then he was pretty subdued as a running mate. I definitely think he's kept himself under the radar just waiting for the right moment to make his move. Was that his plan all along though? Did he really think Trump had a chance? I reckon he only accepted the VP slot to gain exposure for his own career and maybe him running himself in 2020, or do you think he honestly thought Trump had a chance? Maybe hedging his bets either way? Whatever, for such a religious man who obviously has such a strict moral code (ironic isn't it?) Trump, his lifestyle, his past, the way he acts and speaks, all of it must make him wish he was Catholic so he go to confession.
I still think it's going to be easier to tie him to some financial corruption than the Russia collusion. So might take a while once they go over all his taxes. The obstruction of justice could be the play but I trust his awful financials to do the job.
Problem may be if Trump gets booted out, but doesn't go to jail and tries to run some crazed 2020 run, or puts a surrogate in his place. Hell, even just slating the Republicans on a regular basis may be enough; his popularity ratings are dreadful but a former President raving about how awful his former party is would not be helpful for them at all.
It feels like Pence has deliberately kept himself in the background. Around post-election time, when some people still thought the very prospect of Trump assuming office was absurd, a lot of attention went towards Pence's regressive views on gay rights etc. I expect he really felt uncomfortable at that.
They'll probably end up nailing him on something minor but important. Wouldn't be shocked if it ironically ends up being something completely avoidable but careless, too. Would be typical of Trump.
I think if Trump gets impeached he will be done. He'll be 74 in 2020 and the country will have moved on from its Trump fatigue.
He's a vengeful man though, and if Pence and the GOP are willing to let him sink he'll do all he can to bring them down. Even Trump standing, or a Trump-endorsed candidate, could do enough to wreck the GOP campaign if he pinches, say, 5% or so of the vote. I'm not sure they'd want to risk that. Especially if, now he's been on the inside, he's got a lot of dirt on them all and threatens to release it if he thinks he's going down anyway.
If he gets booted from office he will no longer have a base. The angry nativists will have been defeated and he will be reduced to the lonely ravings of his twitter feed.
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