The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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Interesting read if you go through the whole thread.
 
He's correct.

Yep, a very interesting read with some interesting home truths a lot of Americans could do with having a look at. Europe's far from perfect, of course, and high numbers of refugees in Germany and Sweden have undoubtedly caused certain social problems but this narrative that both countries have descended into chaos, with everyone in danger, needs to stop.
 
Yep, a very interesting read with some interesting home truths a lot of Americans could do with having a look at. Europe's far from perfect, of course, and high numbers of refugees in Germany and Sweden have undoubtedly caused certain social problems but this narrative that both countries have descended into chaos, with everyone in danger, needs to stop.

I don't disagree with that assessment but it's funny that even with all our problems Europe is still a more desirable place to reside.
 
I don't disagree with that assessment but it's funny that even with all our problems Europe is still a more desirable place to reside.

Yeah, by a comfortable distance in plenty of places too.
 
Alt-right poster boy, at a time when the alt-right is getting a lot of attention cause of Trump.
Im really confused at how right wing conservative groups can have a gay weirdo as its poster boy?

But his Icarus like story is indicative for how Trump's will soon enough end .... there is just too much murky yuck in these uncensored character's past that will eventually make their position untenable.
 
Im really confused at how right wing conservative groups can have a gay weirdo as its poster boy?

But his Icarus like story is indicative for how Trump's will soon enough end .... there is just too much murky yuck in these uncensored character's past that will eventually make their position untenable.

Kind of like a moral points scoring idea. "We're not regressive, we've got a gay mate," type of thing.
 
Im really confused at how right wing conservative groups can have a gay weirdo as its poster boy?

But his Icarus like story is indicative for how Trump's will soon enough end .... there is just too much murky yuck in these uncensored character's past that will eventually make their position untenable.

It helps them believe that they arent racist/homophobic
Its akin to thinking you can spout racist shit because you have 'a black friend'
 
or maybe you could consider - just for a second - that the majority of people that you call "alt-right" are not die-hard NeoNazis. Maybe they just enjoy that someone riles up people that they perceive as incredible obnoxious, patronising and annoying. That or there are millions and millions of white supremacists out there, who just wait for the right timing to start the purge. Maybe we really are a purge planet.
 
or maybe you could consider - just for a second - that the majority of people that you call "alt-right" are not die-hard NeoNazis. Maybe they just enjoy that someone riles up people that they perceive as incredible obnoxious, patronising and annoying. That or there are millions and millions of white supremacists out there, who just wait for the right timing to start the purge. Maybe we really are a purge planet.

The majority might not be white supremacists but they're implicit in associating themselves with a movement who have some strong ties to, and a liking for, white nationalism.
 
or maybe you could consider - just for a second - that the majority of people that you call "alt-right" are not die-hard NeoNazis. Maybe they just enjoy that someone riles up people that they perceive as incredible obnoxious, patronising and annoying. That or there are millions and millions of white supremacists out there, who just wait for the right timing to start the purge. Maybe we really are a purge planet.

I read something yesterday that at the point that for someone to gain a voice in the "conservative" movement is to piss off liberals. That is it. You can basically be a communist as this point and will be loved by conservatives if you piss off liberals. Trump talked very little about typical Conservative ideals but, to some people "he told it as it is"
 
Just a quick one for those talking about 'alt-right'.

For the real alt-righters, it doesn't mean alternative right, it is alt, as in German for Old. About 80 years old.

Associate with that, don't be surprised when someone calls you a neo-nazi (not a word to be capitalised either), because that is where the alt-right comes from.
 
I personally don't agree at all, I think Trumps manner and attitude is extremely disrespectful and provocative. I think he will only upset both, and everyone else he treats with similar disdain. He's also not clever enough or respected enough to get away with treating other countries the way he does. Just look at the debate in the House of Parliament here in England today, he was slated almost as badly as he gets in here for nearly 4 hours by MP's of all parties. Face it, he and the way he acts gains no respect for himself and now for the country he represents. He's an embarrassment and other countries will treat him as one.

Really? You can say that with a straight face can you? Anyone could see the trouble it would cause and it wasn't unfortunate, it was uncalled for and completely needless and racist. Like his attitude to foreign countries, it was exceptionally provocative too. The USA is one of the hardest countries to enter anyway, especially for those coming from the countries he banned people from. Also, all the recent attacks on the USA have been carried out by home grown citizens. Let's not forget that 9/11 was predominately carried out by people from Saudi Arabia, yet they weren't on the list. I wonder why?

So why cause more provocation and upset more people and put the environment at risk? One of the posters here on the caf knows someone who can comment on it enough and he was disgusted by it. It was a pathetic attempt to appease his supporters that he promised he would keep mining jobs and bring more new ones, something anyone with any intelligence knows is almost impossible because it's a dying industry. Like he keeps on banging on about coal not understanding it's not being used or mined for reasons, like it not being economical anymore or that natural gas and the abundance of it is far more economical. You would like to think he knows this and couldn't be that stupid, but then you realise he is that stupid and just full of shit.

Okay, I'm up. Let's go.

Firstly, I don't think it's a question of 'getting away with' something. That could imply something along the lines of countries like Iran and China having the ability to make America pay for Trump's supposed transgressions. Whatever you meant, I simply don't think entering office and letting them know that he's not going to be a soft touch is anything to be worried about. China in particular needs to understand that America will inevitably push back when they test them that bit too much, certainly now that Trump is the president. Passive presidents won't work on China.

I say it with a straight face, sure. Immigration from these countries definitely needs to be carefully monitored. Even if the execution was shoddy, people need to better understand the intention. Terrorist attacks haven't been committed by people from the countries on the list? Yeah, and neither were attacks committed by Saudis prior to 9/11. We're dealing with a growing threat and we're looking to the future, not waiting around with our dicks in our hands for it to happen. We know that extremism is fomented in such places, so let's take action when we still have time on our side. On the Saudi question, it's been an American ally and administration upon administration before Trump consolidated that relationship. To enter office and tear up that alliance would set very dangerous precedent. I'd be all for them being on the list if I was ignorant with respect to how politics actually work. The fact is, it's politics, and not just Trump's.

There's serious discord about mining jobs. Coal mining will be phased out, which isn't to say it needs to be wiped out instantaneously. The industry is on its knees and people from those communities are desperate enough. People within the industry are fully aware that it's only going that way. I'm looking at it from their perspective, and arguments like "it's not economical" don't immediately solve their problems. We're all so environmentally friendly that we're too busy focusing on that to bother addressing real people's lives are at stake. If Obama had given them 'HOPE' instead of going for the throat, we'd have been in a better position to not have to reconsider certain laws just to appease them.

Make America great again. Again. To which period are you referring, the 1950's?

I think you're taking a campaign slogan too seriously. 'Make America Great Again' can be construed in many ways. I choose to see it as an inspiration to Americans on a personal level, with it asking the question, "do you think there's something about America that was good and got worse? If so, get up and strive to improve that." In other words, Make Your America Great again. Of course, all messages can have negative connotations if you choose to see them that way.

Okay, so how many consecutive mistakes must be made before you change your mind on him? If he doesn't learn from this and his next travel ban EO is a shit show too, then what? Give him another chance?

Running simultaneously alongside that he is deliberately spewing inaccurate information whenever he gets to a microphone. Maybe only small things, alternative facts here and there, but do they add up? Do you treat every little lie individually and write it off or do you say, hang on, it's the 3rd time this week? Are these feck ups allowed to run alongside the bigger feck ups and at what point do you say enough is enough?

I'm not easily offended I just had enough several mistakes and lies back.

I'm not sure which mistakes you're referring to here. The EO was hastily put together, it was rightly stopped by a judge, and they'll ensure next time that it won't be repeated. I can pick an arbitrary number if that would ease your mind, but I already answered the question - I'm confident that next time they'll get it right. Essentially, enough will be enough when he's been given a chance and failed. Cries for impeachment barely a month in - and who can realistically consider a month as a chance - seem very impulsive. With regards to the inaccurate information that has supposedly been deliberately spewed, we'd need to look at on those on an individual basis before jumping to conclusions about it all being intentional.
 
Just a quick one for those talking about 'alt-right'.

For the real alt-righters, it doesn't mean alternative right, it is alt, as in German for Old. About 80 years old.

Associate with that, don't be surprised when someone calls you a neo-nazi (not a word to be capitalised either), because that is where the alt-right comes from.
Where did you get that from? The term was coined by Richard Spencer - the founder of Alternative Right (website). Now, there is a link to the Old Right, that's not denied, but this is a branch of American conservatism and it has nothing to do with Germany or nazism, as far as I am aware.
 
Where did you get that from? The term was coined by Richard Spencer - the founder of Alternative Right (website). Now, there is a link to the Old Right, that's not denied, but this is a branch of American conservatism and it has nothing to do with Germany or nazism, as far as I am aware.

Apart from their interest in genocide.
 
Okay, I'm up. Let's go.

Firstly, I don't think it's a question of 'getting away with' something. That could imply something along the lines of countries like Iran and China having the ability to make America pay for Trump's supposed transgressions. Whatever you meant, I simply don't think entering office and letting them know that he's not going to be a soft touch is anything to be worried about. China in particular needs to understand that America will inevitably push back when they test them that bit too much, certainly now that Trump is the president. Passive presidents won't work on China.

I say it with a straight face, sure. Immigration from these countries definitely needs to be carefully monitored. Even if the execution was shoddy, people need to better understand the intention. Terrorist attacks haven't been committed by people from the countries on the list? Yeah, and neither were attacks committed by Saudis prior to 9/11. We're dealing with a growing threat and we're looking to the future, not waiting around with our dicks in our hands for it to happen. We know that extremism is fomented in such places, so let's take action when we still have time on our side. On the Saudi question, it's been an American ally and administration upon administration before Trump consolidated that relationship. To enter office and tear up that alliance would set very dangerous precedent. I'd be all for them being on the list if I was ignorant with respect to how politics actually work. The fact is, it's politics, and not just Trump's.

There's serious discord about mining jobs. Coal mining will be phased out, which isn't to say it needs to be wiped out instantaneously. The industry is on its knees and people from those communities are desperate enough. People within the industry are fully aware that it's only going that way. I'm looking at it from their perspective, and arguments like "it's not economical" don't immediately solve their problems. We're all so environmentally friendly that we're too busy focusing on that to bother addressing real people's lives are at stake. If Obama had given them 'HOPE' instead of going for the throat, we'd have been in a better position to not have to reconsider certain laws just to appease them.



I think you're taking a campaign slogan too seriously. 'Make America Great Again' can be construed in many ways. I choose to see it as an inspiration to Americans on a personal level, with it asking the question, "do you think there's something about America that was good and got worse? If so, get up and strive to improve that." In other words, Make Your America Great again. Of course, all messages can have negative connotations if you choose to see them that way.



I'm not sure which mistakes you're referring to here. The EO was hastily put together, it was rightly stopped by a judge, and they'll ensure next time that it won't be repeated. I can pick an arbitrary number if that would ease your mind, but I already answered the question - I'm confident that next time they'll get it right. Essentially, enough will be enough when he's been given a chance and failed. Cries for impeachment barely a month in - and who can realistically consider a month as a chance - seem very impulsive. With regards to the inaccurate information that has supposedly been deliberately spewed, we'd need to look at on those on an individual basis before jumping to conclusions about it all being intentional.

That is all well and good, obviously the perception of a President who can't be pushed around is a good thing (no puppet) but like you said, the threat of an attack is what Trump is going on the offensive over, why doesn't he try and use the wave he is riding to help fix some of the immediate issues America is currently facing, like gun crime, poverty, disproportionate division of wealth and internal racism??
 
That is all well and good, obviously the perception of a President who can't be pushed around is a good thing (no puppet) but like you said, the threat of an attack is what Trump is going on the offensive over, why doesn't he try and use the wave he is riding to help fix some of the immediate issues America is currently facing, like gun crime, poverty, disproportionate division of wealth and internal racism??

We're one month in. This is something that really is worth keeping in mind. All of those things aren't going to happen overnight.
 
why doesn't he try and use the wave he is riding to help fix some of the immediate issues America is currently facing, like gun crime, poverty, disproportionate division of wealth and internal racism?
But he has...

He made it easier for the mentally ill to buy guns, put billionaires in his cabinet, and said we will have peace in this country while talking to reporters. Giggity
 
We're one month in. This is something that really is worth keeping in mind. All of those things aren't going to happen overnight.

Yeah, but you would think that these would be the things he would prioritise when wanting to make a big statement early on.
 
Yeah, but you would think that these would be the things he would prioritise when wanting to make a big statement early on.

Maybe you would. I wouldn't automatically assume so, not when the threat of international terrorism looms over the world more than ever.
 
Whatever you meant, I simply don't think entering office and letting them know that he's not going to be a soft touch is anything to be worried about. China in particular needs to understand that America will inevitably push back when they test them that bit too much, certainly now that Trump is the president. Passive presidents won't work on China.

I just meant that his ignorance and disrespect won't be appreciated, especially from countries where certain manners and customs are to be expected. As I said about yesterday, pretty much every Member of Parliament was heavily criticising Trump, many were outright mocking him and laughing at him, and you can guarantee every country around the world is thinking the same. Just look at his handshake with the Japanese PM, or him getting Netanyahu's name wrong, or saying that one or two states doesn't matter, as long as they are happy. It's mistakes and ignorance like that that will be remembered and that will be in leaders minds when they go to meet him. I'm sorry, but the rest of the world thinks the USA has a complete moron in charge, and personally, I think they are right.

I say it with a straight face, sure. Immigration from these countries definitely needs to be carefully monitored.

Don't you get it? Immigration from those countries was ALREADY carefully monitored, it was nigh on impossible to get in as it was. I think due to all the propaganda spread, most US citizens actually think it's easy to get in to the USA when it couldn't be further from the truth. As I said all recent terrorist attacks in the USA AND in Europe have been carried out by citizens of their own countries. The threat the USA faces and the one it really wants and needs to concentrate more on is the threat from at home, within their own borders from their own citizens. Why would ISIS spend time, effort and money trying to get people inside the country when they can use what is already there? And the more hatred Trump and his ilk spread about Muslims, and the more ostracised Muslims feel in their own communities due to rhetoric and propaganda, the more likely young impressionable minds will be radicalised. That's the problem nobody on the right, or close to Trump ever seems to get.

There's serious discord about mining jobs. Coal mining will be phased out, which isn't to say it needs to be wiped out instantaneously. The industry is on its knees and people from those communities are desperate enough. People within the industry are fully aware that it's only going that way. I'm looking at it from their perspective, and arguments like "it's not economical" don't immediately solve their problems. We're all so environmentally friendly that we're too busy focusing on that to bother addressing real people's lives are at stake. If Obama had given them 'HOPE' instead of going for the throat, we'd have been in a better position to not have to reconsider certain laws just to appease them.

There is a reason coal mining is on its knees, because it's outdated, unsustainable, expensive and incredibly bad for the environment. I don't know what the USA is doing but renewable energy is the way forward. Here in the South West of the UK the main trade was fishing, but its a dying industry. Now those jobs have been replaced with wind farms and solar farms, many from other countries like Holland and France. Everyone I know who used to be a fisherman, aside maybe a handful, now all earn excellent money working on wind farms. Wind farms that Trump dislikes btw because he thinks they are unsightly and loud (you can't hear them) What he doesn't understand is that they are part of the way forward and to replace dying trades you need to find new ones. There is one excellent one in wind farms, but your President doesn't like them simply because what he thinks goes. He won't ever relent or give something a chance due to his personal bias. I'm not saying all mining jobs could be filled with renewable energy jobs, but I bet a lot of them could.

As for being environmentally friendly, we fecking need to be! Seriously, if we want a planet for our children and their children and their children etc we need to seriously make radical changes now. The trouble is everyone is too short sighted and selfish to care. Many think they won't be alive so it wont effect them, while others think they can keep putting it off while they make a few more dollars themselves. It's so similar to the fishing industry it's not true. If we don't stop now or make serious changes there will be nothing to pass on to our kids, the same as if we don't stop now there will be no fish for them to eat.
 
or maybe you could consider - just for a second - that the majority of people that you call "alt-right" are not die-hard NeoNazis. Maybe they just enjoy that someone riles up people that they perceive as incredible obnoxious, patronising and annoying. That or there are millions and millions of white supremacists out there, who just wait for the right timing to start the purge. Maybe we really are a purge planet.
Every radical movement consists of a relatively small core of hardcore ideologues, apparatchiks, militants and a vast majority of bystanders who either cheer them on or back them indirectly through victim-blaming. These bystanders always have various reasons, but what really matters is their practical behaviour. They back up and encourage the militants, they give them legitimacy. Even if some of them don't like the radical avantgarde of that movement, they still despise their victims much more.

It's usually broad support like this that convinces the militants the time has come to turn the violence up a notch. The current rise in hate crimes in the US exemplifies this pretty well. So this second group is as essential as the first for the success of a racist movement, and I think your strict distinction disregards that.
 
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