What if corrupt people get elected through fair elections?
The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated
- Thread starter Raoul
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What if corrupt people get elected through fair elections?
Regarding illegal immigrants.
Is it not the policy of every country to enforce something loosely along the lines of;
- Employees need to have official documents to work. Be that a birth certificate, NI number, Visa etc
- Employers need to ensure they are employing people that meet that criteria.
- If an employee works without a legal ability too, they get deported.
- If an employer employs someone illegitimate, they get fined/sanctioned
From my limited experience of working in 6 countries, that's pretty universal.
Where is the grey in Americas policy? It seems that the illegal workers conundrum is due to shockingly bad oversight from the government and employers. Why go after the people that exploit incompetence? Put the blame at the companies doors.
It doesn't seem like a hard problem. Am I missing something?
Is it not the policy of every country to enforce something loosely along the lines of;
- Employees need to have official documents to work. Be that a birth certificate, NI number, Visa etc
- Employers need to ensure they are employing people that meet that criteria.
- If an employee works without a legal ability too, they get deported.
- If an employer employs someone illegitimate, they get fined/sanctioned
From my limited experience of working in 6 countries, that's pretty universal.
Where is the grey in Americas policy? It seems that the illegal workers conundrum is due to shockingly bad oversight from the government and employers. Why go after the people that exploit incompetence? Put the blame at the companies doors.
It doesn't seem like a hard problem. Am I missing something?
Yeah I understand that argument, but unfortunately America has to take responsibility for its own immigration problem too - you can't talk about the land of the free, 'The American Dream', dominate media and proclaim to be the best country in the world for decades and expect people not to want to come in waves. Hell, if I could live in America legally I would go too.
There's no point dwelling about rules now when there's approximately 12 million illegal citizens currently residing in the country. And like it or not, they have made America their home.
the system does need to change in my opinion. But you do have some that waited their turn to enter legally. Even if the process took forever. The illegal immigrants shouldn't have been their in the first place and to me it seems the biggest reason to want them in the country is because you can pay them under the counter to do jobs citizens don't want. Would it be better to just give 10 million immigrants citizenship?
Immigration doesn't need to be easier - tweaks to certain things, guest worker programs etc etc are always welcome. Even if the US let in 10mil people legally every year, another 2 mil would still try to come in illegally and someone, somewhere would complain about the existing laws.
How much easier can immigration be then having a Diversity Visa - where, you require ZERO qualifications to win. Simple lottery...you enter, if you get picked, you win a new life! If there wasn't political mileage to gain from this - people would discuss this issue in a more rational manner and realize, how more money is being spent on border control and how things are tighter and it is tougher to get in to the country illegally.
People tried to do something - I posted the proposed bill - it had different paths for all categories and also had a cut off in terms of who was eligible. As the bill was presented in 2013, it meant all those who made it into the US before 2012 would be covered by this law in some shape or form.
But, a need to simply this into a yes/no issue has meant - nothing got done. Even Trump for all his tough talk wants to get rid of 2mil-3mil max.
Where did he pluck that number from you ask?
Finally even those figures aren't up to date - as ICE used those statistics to request additional funds from Congress - which they got. So, safe to guess...they've thrown out a fair few of those people!
Why not? Similar to not paying taxes, that makes the illegals smart.
Sounds legit and as predicted by some in this thread.
I believe he is indeed, mate.
And again we will see the hypocrisy from many of his supporters. This is the type of thing many of them have been fearing for decades, the US Government setting the Armed Forces loose on the streets of American towns and cities.
Or go after both. I know of many companies that hire immigrants on overstayed visa's. As a matter of fact, i know someone that just went to Florida last week being given housekeeper job under the counter. Do I blame her? no i dont. Do I feel sorry for her if she's deported 10 years from now, having lost her accent, roots and way of life from where she was originally from? not really
How can you advocate for anything except LEGAL IMMIGRATION. You can advocate for changes to the current system, even amnesty or a quick route to amnesty for most if not all of the people already in the country, I've said before we need to have a fix to the system with a fair way to enter the country legally and a fast tract to legal status for those already here. But I also feel that if that is every achieved, then anyone who enters illegally AFTER that, well throw them out. But again only AFTER we fix the system.
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Good. Hopefully we just need to wait until March the 15th for the equivalent of Brutus to do his job.
What's happening on Mar 15? I'll actually be in America that day.
Hard to really take anything Trumps says as legit. I think he said he would start with that first which leave wiggle room. And even then I wouldnt put it past him tp deport them all.
Immigration is basically impossible unless you marry in or are lucky to have a close relative that lives in the US. Yes you will still have the issue of folks wanting to come in but there also needs to be tougher sanctions on workers and companies that employ these people. That is why they stay. There is always someone willing to hire them. I agree that Trump should continue the deportation just like obama did, but crack down on people that hire them should also be on the agenda. making it easier to get outside workers should be on the agenda . Why is it so easy for an illegal immigrant to get a Job in the US or get a fake social security number.
What would you prefer seen done
The only way to reverse the mistake of electing a wrong government is "whinging". At least this could help to overturn the government when next elections are due.
It's hardly a secret the real power of government in the US lies with big corporations and wealthy people. (Check wealth and background of presently elected government) Generally, it happens that manufactured consent replaces informed public opinion and provides a false sense of government by the people.
You're going to have illegal immigration in lots of if not all developed countries, regardless of the system that's in place.
The US is peculiar because to my knowledge the system that is in place is particularly difficult.
So of course you'll get people cheating the system, especially when the land is so big and it shares borders with other countries which are easily accessible.
If the illegals aren't breaking the law, are contributing to the economy why can't they stay? America is the land of the free and built on the backs of millions of immigrants.
Ugh, I was listening to a podcast a few weeks about a guy who has worked for 20 years to get that bill passed after his community was destroyed by coal mining. Obama passed it as one of his last acts but this guy was gutted, he knew all about the Congressional Repeals Act that lets any new president rip up recent regulations, whats worse is that it makes it almost impossible for this or any similar regulation to be passed in the future.
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Different strokes for different folks.
Blame the system. Punish the system. Make it better going forward.
I just can't be that callous to the individual unless everything is judged on individual merit.
So then if that be the case why not just have an open border. Since these people are coming in willy nilly anyway. Or is it that the grey area where they are now just works. Enforce border patrol, if you get in great one of us but not really , stay here quitely under the rug and dont make a ruckus.
Trump off to Mar Lago for the third time in his first 4 weeks.
He's working hard and deserves these breaks
He's working hard and deserves these breaks
That's so sad and depressing. Just reading that article tells you how important it was. Fecks sake, he really is clueless and heartless. Couldn't give a shit about anything but £££££££$$$$$$$$$$$
Ahem. One country that is easily accessible.
Oh...
I don't think he has immunity based on his first chat with the FBI. I suspect it was because they thought he was being truthful or possibly because Sessions and Comey made a calculation that they wouldn't pursue charges. Although I do think he will take immunity if they offer it up to him before he testifies before Congress.
Reich seems like a credible source. The transcript describes the situation like you expect it to be when looking at it from the outside, but it's always nice to see some confirmation.
That was a tweet from yesterday. I think with all the events that have happened since that first chat and no doubt more intelligence they've built since, they've got enough solid evidence or circumstantial evidence to build a case against him and start turning the screw.
I suspect Reich will be on AC360 argue about this with Jeffry Lord tonight.
I agree also, 33 does feel high
No way it's as high as 30
Yes please. Every day that goes by with this joke of an administration stumbling onward heels over head just defies belief. I'd even settle for competent, sensible people in the background telling him to shut up and him still in charge compared to the sentient dumpster fire impression that's be served up in the last three days.
He just called the media the enemy of the American people...
Fox News' John Roberts reported Flynn had a "full recollection" of the call when discussing this with the White House counsel. This was after the FBI interview, so he did lie to the FBI if Roberts' source is correct.
He's decided to take on the one group no politician can afford to take on.This bodes well for the eventual destruction of the GOP.
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