The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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MTF said:
As they say: "the enemy always gets a vote".

About force readiness reports recently, I was also surprised. Got me wondering if the whole force structure of the past few years was a pipe dream, given the budget constraints. Because general management tells me that on a restricted budget one should downsize to the force size that you can maintain good readiness for. Maybe the services were playing a longer game, hoping the constraints would be lessened in a future administration and then it would be better not to have mothballed a lot of planes and other equipment? Seems unlikely though.
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The ongoing cost of the "War on Terror" will have been a major factor. Corners get cut, readiness declines, etc.
 
PedroMendez said:
I am just trying to point out, that he didn't do anything that alienated his voters yet.

The immigration/Muslim ban was actually quite popular in the USA despite its failure. He delivered some of his promises asap and his voters will turn on him, if he violates some of his campaign promises (especially on trade/the economy/welfare). In the long run they might find out, that he can’t “make America great again”, but that will take some time. Maybe more than 4 years. I certainly wouldn’t want to rely on the possibility that he just collapses.

I think you underestimate the economic reasons that influenced this election. The majority of people who thought that they were worse of compared to last year voted for him, while the majority of people who think they are better off voted for Hillary. Hillary destroyed Trump in the 9 mega-city regions, did okay in cities with 1-5m people and lost horrible in everything that is smaller. Trump won ~300 counties, that voted two times for Obama and an additional ~130, that voted one time for Obama.
Ignoring, that the dems should care about these people, the American system seems to over-represent these rural areas in presidential elections. So they might want to win some of them back.
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I am not underestimating anything, I am telling you the answers you get from his supports when you question anything Trump. Not that difficult to understand is it?
 
PedroMendez said:
so how many Trump supporters do you actually know?
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Quite a few. Plus all the ones I get to see posting on Facebook, various other internet sites, etc. You just are not going to get nuanced discussions of the reasons why they voted for Trump. Just like during Obama's first campaign many supporters would parrot out the words "Hope" and "Change" now you get the same sort of talking point, sound bite, twitter post, short answer from his supporters.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
As much as I dislike the Tory government, they're socialists compared to Trump. Labour's official position is trigger article 50, they just disagree in the ways to go about it. Both major parties campaigned to remain.
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This used to be true, but I think you may be underestimating just how hard right the current government are. There are several members who openly supported destroying the NHS in the past, and the majority of them would love nothing more than to swing this country harder right than its been in over 50 years.

Mciahel Goodman said:
There are divides, but the divides just aren't anywhere near as big. One of the few benefits of having a politically neutral head of state (and I despise monarchy, but truth be told, it has some advantages).
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I think the problem is that both UK major parties haven't been representing a vast swathe of the public in recent years. Trump cleaned up by managing to pull in a lot of the millions of Americans who felt that way. May appears to be attracting a lot of ours by attaching herself (ironically) to their Leave votes and painting them as being connected despite her government sharing nothing in common with them or their needs beyond the Brexit vote.
 
JustAFan said:
Quite a few. Plus all the ones I get to see posting on Facebook, various other internet sites, etc. You just are not going to get nuanced discussions of the reasons why they voted for Trump. Just like during Obama's first campaign many supporters would parrot out the words "Hope" and "Change" now you get the same sort of talking point, sound bite, twitter post, short answer from his supporters.
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yes. I totally agree with that. They are highly partisan. Additionally, people on social media are particularly vile. But people on social media are still a small minority.The dems don’t need to win over all republicans. ~80-90% the voters of each party are preassigned anyway. They’d vote for poop on a plate if you put the party badge on it (or a turd with a wig and spray taint).
All the dems need to do, is to win over the 300 counties, that were willing to vote for Obama twice but flipped to Trump.
A political scientist said once: If you want to win elections based on identity politics, you better make damn sure, that you include enough voters into your coalition.…That was part of the problem. Hillary underestimated the number of “deplorables” out there. The current political climate just further entrenches both sides and that is bad news for everyone but Trump. Ridicule Trump all you like, but it is a mistake to do the same with his voters.
 
PedroMendez said:
yes. I totally agree with that. They are highly partisan. Additionally, people on social media are particularly vile. But people on social media are still a small minority.The dems don’t need to win over all republicans. ~80-90% the voters of each party are preassigned anyway. They’d vote for poop on a plate if you put the party badge on it (or a turd with a wig and spray taint).
All the dems need to do, is to win over the 300 counties, that were willing to vote for Obama twice but flipped to Trump.
A political scientist said once: If you want to win elections based on identity politics, you better make damn sure, that you include enough voters into your coalition.…That was part of the problem. Hillary underestimated the number of “deplorables” out there. The current political climate just further entrenches both sides and that is bad news for everyone but Trump. Ridicule Trump all you like, but it is a mistake to do the same with his voters.
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Okay great, nice analysis that says nothing we have not discussed before, and which has nothing at all to do with the post of mine you originally quoted, which it self was about the answers I get from Trump supporters when asked about specific things he or his staff do or say.

Thanks anyways.
 
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PedroMendez said:
Maybe don't argue with political supporters on the internet and think they represent a all voters. I take my own advice and leave it at that.
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Guess you missed the part where I indicated that I knew plenty of Trump supporters and then added in the ones I have seen on the internet.
 
This thread is page up and down with the same analyzis of Trump and someone quoting a post with the additional comment "spot on". Kind of pointless to point out when someone fails to discuss new ideas.
 
Kentonio said:
I think the problem is that both UK major parties haven't been representing a vast swathe of the public in recent years. Trump cleaned up by managing to pull in a lot of the millions of Americans who felt that way. May appears to be attracting a lot of ours by attaching herself (ironically) to their Leave votes and painting them as being connected despite her government sharing nothing in common with them or their needs beyond the Brexit vote.
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This is a solid point. It explains the referendum result despite both parties campaigning to remain, and also the popularity of fringe political groups like UKIP. Possibly even Corbyn's popularity prior to the vote.

Perhaps Trump has tapped into the same "unspoken for" mass.
 
PedroMendez said:
I am just trying to point out, that he didn't do anything that alienated his voters yet.

The immigration/Muslim ban was actually quite popular in the USA despite its failure. He delivered some of his promises asap and his voters will turn on him, if he violates some of his campaign promises (especially on trade/the economy/welfare). In the long run they might find out, that he can’t “make America great again”, but that will take some time. Maybe more than 4 years. I certainly wouldn’t want to rely on the possibility that he just collapses.

I think you underestimate the economic reasons that influenced this election. The majority of people who thought that they were worse of compared to last year voted for him, while the majority of people who think they are better off voted for Hillary. Hillary destroyed Trump in the 9 mega-city regions, did okay in cities with 1-5m people and lost horrible in everything that is smaller. Trump won ~300 counties, that voted two times for Obama and an additional ~130, that voted one time for Obama.
Ignoring, that the dems should care about these people, the American system seems to over-represent these rural areas in presidential elections. So they might want to win some of them back.
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Good post, though anecdotally I live in a liberal city, strongly Clinton, with a 200k population.
 
And again I'll repeat that there are broadly 2 trump voters - the gop base (rich, evangelicals, white) that delivered the red and light red states (some with slightly less margins) and the cross -voting from ex-democrats (white workers, maybe unionized/ex-unionised, concentrated in pa, mi, oh, wi) who won him the electoral college.
I sincerely hope the second group is concerned more about real jobs than the wall but the ban/ wall has increased in popularity since the election, which to me suggests that his supporters are embracing it after their leader announced it.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
This is a solid point. It explains the referendum result despite both parties campaigning to remain, and also the popularity of fringe political groups like UKIP. Possibly even Corbyn's popularity prior to the vote.

Perhaps Trump has tapped into the same "unspoken for" mass.
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Nothing 'perhaps' about it at all.

Thye neo liberals traditionally represented the blue collar workers. But Clinton and Blair drank too much kool aid, demanding their own taste of do-good elitist global liberalism with shindigs like Davos and the G8. Native working class people were suddenly relegated behind immigrant workers. I personally don't have a problem with that, their is ample opportunity and Government help for people in UK and USA to make a success of their lives, and the immigrants often took work shunned by natives who demanded a higher quality of life without the labour.

Anyways, we know all this. By definition, the US is where it is because of Clinton, 9/11, Bush and Obama. In those 24 years, seismic changes occurred and Reagan's ultimate renaissance man: the budweiser drinking blue collar worker, was left behind. Trump has cleverly and expertly understood these people and built a populist agenda to soothe their heartache.
 
berbatrick said:
And again I'll repeat that there are broadly 2 trump voters - the gop base (rich, evangelicals, white) that delivered the red and light red states (some with slightly less margins) and the cross -voting from ex-democrats (white workers, maybe unionized/ex-unionised, concentrated in pa, mi, oh, wi) who won him the electoral college.
I sincerely hope the second group is concerned more about real jobs than the wall but the ban/ wall has increased in popularity since the election, which to me suggests that his supporters are embracing it after their leader announced it.
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During the campaign rallies I really struggled to identify either of those groups. The overwhelming numbers at the rallies are people I'd call dumb racists and sexists. "Trump that bitch" "Lock her up" "Build that wall" were the main chants you can hear there. F all to do with jobs or modern abrahamic morals.
 
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