The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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Eboue said:
Not quite. She offered no meaningful policy to the people who were part of the Obama coalition in Rust Belt states and who abandoned her. Pointing to lengthy paragraphs on a website isn't actually offering anything to those voters, because those voters are never going to see it. Who is going to get anything out of a two hundred page book? Vox.com and people who care about CBO scores. Not the people who she failed to convince to vote for her.
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I might be mistaken on this, but didn't Hillary go to the mining towns and give them the hard truth, whilst at the same time offering a genuine alternative option for the future?

If I remember right she said something about acknowledging the issues with mining towns and that she wasn't going to placate them with false promises but that she wasn't forgetting about these people and she wanted to help them adjust.

Trump then went to those same places and twisted that into saying she was killing mining jobs and that he would bring them back, which obviously isn't true.

Hillary was a million miles from perfect, but how is he on he right side of that situation?
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
I feel you're agreeing with me rather than suggesting some nuance or variance in what I'm saying.

America got the president they deserved with respect to how little the average voter is engaged in actually educating themselves on policy.
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I'm suggesting that not only average american who couldn't understand policies voted for Trump, but the intelligent ones who understood that he's a buffoon voted for him regardless because they trusted their party leadership to do good by them.
 
Rado_N said:
I might be mistaken on this, but didn't Hillary go to the mining towns and give them the hard truth, whilst at the same time offering a genuine alternative option for the future?

If I remember right she said something about acknowledging the issues with mining towns and that she wasn't going to placate them with false promises but that she wasn't forgetting about these people and she wanted to help them adjust.

Trump then went to those same places and twisted that into saying she was killing mining jobs and that he would bring them back, which obviously isn't true.

Hillary was a million miles from perfect, but how is he on he right side of that situation?
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these people have been hearing about alternative training or whatever since her husband was elected. they think it is complete bullshit. unless you are referring to another genuine alternative?
 
Eboue said:
these people have been hearing about alternative training or whatever since her husband was elected. they think it is complete bullshit. unless you are referring to another genuine alternative?
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I'm not gonna pretend to be sufficiently well versed to know the specifics of her suggestions, but I just find the idea that Trump feeding them feel good bullshit is the better option, well, I dunno, depressing?

How is anything ever gonna improve if people just say whatever they need to say to gain power and then use that power to, in the case of Trump and the GOP at least, screw over people over?
 
Rado_N said:
I'm not gonna pretend to be sufficiently well versed to know the specifics of her suggestions, but I just find the idea that Trump feeding them feel good bullshit is the better option, well, I dunno, depressing?

How is anything ever gonna improve if people just say whatever they need to say to gain power and then use that power to, in the case of Trump and the GOP at least, screw over people over?
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its not going to improve with dense policy papers. its amazing that the democrats watched trump defeat the entire republican establishment because nothing horrible he said ever caused him to lose voters and then ran a campaign on "did you hear that horrible thing he said"?
 
Eboue said:
its not going to improve with dense policy papers. its amazing that the democrats watched trump defeat the entire republican establishment because nothing horrible he said ever caused him to lose voters and then ran a campaign on "did you hear that horrible thing he said"?
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I don't think anyone is gonna pretend Hillary ran a perfect campaign, and Trump is something of a curve ball for the political strategists, but what's the answer?

He lies and people eat it up. So should Hillary have lied more? It's a pre disheartening position to be in.
 
Rado_N said:
I don't think anyone is gonna pretend Hillary ran a perfect campaign, and Trump is something of a curve ball for the political strategists, but what's the answer?

He lies and people eat it up. So should Hillary have lied more? It's a pre disheartening position to be in.
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not necessarily. bernie didnt lie and he captured the exact voters she couldnt. maybe she should have moved to the left, where sanders and those voters were instead of towards the center.

“For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”
 
Carolina Red said:
You said she had no campaign promises. She literally had a book of them.

Good job.
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Look at the DNC convention. Look at her campaign "highlights."
It was about decency, going high not low, her chance, love and togetherness, America being great already, diversity... Look at the study of her ads. There was no policy in them.
Saying she ran a policy-based campaign and then referring to her websites but not her stump speech or her famous lines shows the discrepancy. She had policies, but wanted to win by claiming to be ultimately a better human being than her opponent.
 
Raoul said:
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:lol: Aside from the lies, or mistake (give him the benefit of doubt that he wasn't aware) over Trump Jr, then this comment was the best...

"We can be standing tall on the world again"

Feck me, I bet he regrets saying that now, especially after how the entire rest of the world is reporting Trump's attendance to the G20, many calling it the G19 now and saying that the USA has publically declined to lead the world anymore and are now only concerned about themselves. (We know that's not completely true, btw)
 
Eboue said:
not necessarily. bernie didnt lie and he captured the exact voters she couldnt. maybe she should have moved to the left, where sanders and those voters were instead of towards the center.

“For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”
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Quite possibly.

I definitely think Bernie would have done better in the general, especially without the "anyone but her" stigma.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
It is. But Trump is a cartoon. Never before has anyone that ridiculous got themselves in a 50/50 race.

The Dems fought the wrong fight for all of the reasons that we know.

Gregster made a point that Hillary had a policy. It didn't matter. It wasn't a policy driven election. It was two detestable people running against each other.

Hillary is a nasty piece of work. She couldn't bring herself to have a bar fight with a buffoon?
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We were told she never stated her policy . She did. We were told at rallies she never talked policy. She did. I semi agree with you. For many people policy wasn't a factor or oddly enough it was too strong a factor (e.g. abortion) so they'd never vote for a particular candidate.
 
Eboue said:
its not going to improve with dense policy papers. its amazing that the democrats watched trump defeat the entire republican establishment because nothing horrible he said ever caused him to lose voters and then ran a campaign on "did you hear that horrible thing he said"?
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What about her rallies? Those were not dense papers. She spoke policy there. On the other hand, Trump did what you blasted Hilary for... Attacked her and others rather than focus on policy.

Also, I don't recollect Obama having short policy positions and like Clinton he didn't visit Wisconsin after the primaries.
 
senorgregster said:
We were told she never stated her policy . She did. We were told at rallies she never talked policy. She did. I semi agree with you. For many people policy wasn't a factor or oddly enough it was too strong a factor (e.g. abortion) so they'd never vote for a particular candidate.
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Anyone suggesting she didn't state policy is retarded. She did. That's absolutely not the issue.

The issue was that she was trying to have an intellectual conversation in front of people that had been told by the red team that all of their dreams were going to come true. She was talking in carefully agreed upon political phrases. The other guy was throwing out a new click-bait catchphrase every single day.

There are an inexhaustible number of analogies but the absolute bottom line is Hillary played to some weird set of rules that the other guy just said 'Oh, why does everyone do this? Not for me'. When you see someone cheat and you know you can't win fair, you cheat.

Though I also say that I'm glad she lost. She's a contemptible human being. Doesn't mean I'm glad Trump won mind.
 
senorgregster said:
What about her rallies? Those were not dense papers. She spoke policy there. On the other hand, Trump did what you blasted Hilary for... Attacked her and others rather than focus on policy.

Also, I don't recollect Obama having short policy positions and like Clinton he didn't visit Wisconsin after the primaries.
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behind door one: change you can believe in

behind door two: america is already great




its really not hard to see the difference
 
berbatrick said:
Look at the DNC convention. Look at her campaign "highlights."
It was about decency, going high not low, her chance, love and togetherness, America being great already, diversity... Look at the study of her ads. There was no policy in them.
Saying she ran a policy-based campaign and then referring to her websites but not her stump speech or her famous lines shows the discrepancy. She had policies, but wanted to win by claiming to be ultimately a better human being than her opponent.
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Again, I'm not talking about her on stage campaigning. I'm pointing out that it is folly to say the Democrat ticket "promised nothing".

Also, to your argument, fairness would dictate you look at the utter dearth of policy detail in literally every aspect of Trump's campaign. From website, to speeches, to interviews, etc.
 
Carolina Red said:
Again, I'm not talking about her on stage campaigning. I'm pointing out that it is folly to say the Democrat ticket "promised nothing".

Also, to your argument, fairness would dictate you look at the utter dearth of policy detail in literally every aspect of Trump's campaign. From website, to speeches, to interviews, etc.
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The problem is you are looking at this from your perspective, not from the perspective of the voters she lost. To them, speeches and in person campaigning are all that matters. They don't go to isidewith.com and they don't read Tim Kaine's ebook and they don't watch meet the press. She failed to understand how to communicate with those voters and she lost their votes and with them the election.
 
Eboue said:
The problem is you are looking at this from your perspective, not from the perspective of the voters she lost. To them, speeches and in person campaigning are all that matters. They don't go to isidewith.com and they don't read Tim Kaine's ebook and they don't watch meet the press. She failed to understand how to communicate with those voters and she lost their votes and with them the election.
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This I agree with.
 
Eboue said:
The problem is you are looking at this from your perspective, not from the perspective of the voters she lost. To them, speeches and in person campaigning are all that matters. They don't go to isidewith.com and they don't read Tim Kaine's ebook and they don't watch meet the press. She failed to understand how to communicate with those voters and she lost their votes and with them the election.
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I don't dispute that at all
 
Eboue said:
The problem is you are looking at this from your perspective, not from the perspective of the voters she lost. To them, speeches and in person campaigning are all that matters. They don't go to isidewith.com and they don't read Tim Kaine's ebook and they don't watch meet the press. She failed to understand how to communicate with those voters and she lost their votes and with them the election.
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Although I agree with you most of them really weren't going to vote for her anyway. Trump just have them a reason to really not vote for her. A lot of Trump's voters were simply anti-Hillary and no amount of campaigning or talking to them would have changed that.
 


Trump yet again passing the buck and sticking it to his (supposed) Party. The Republicans must be feeling the pressure and Trump isn't exactly helping by publically putting pressure on them.
 
langster said:


Trump yet again passing the buck and sticking it to his (supposed) Party. The Republicans must be feeling the pressure and Trump isn't exactly helping by publically putting pressure on them.
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Trump's next new book: How to make friends and influence them (and lose them even quicker.)
 
berbatrick said:
Groundhog day.
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The one major gripe I have with that Congress is their inability to include a public option. Too many blue dogs eventually lost their seats for the ACA anyway so pushing it through the budget reconciliation process but vote down public option in the house in hindsight was plain stupid. Economy-wise they are doomed from the start with the recession just beginning.

Of course, all that debacle would also have been easily avoided if they didnt run a candidate who already failed twice for governorship for Kennedy's seat.
 
Is it just me or does Don Jr. look a bit like that slimeball Martin something who bought some AIDS medication and raised the prices a lot?
 
Raoul said:
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It's astonishing how ignorant they are of the law. I mean basic petty crooks are bright enough to know how far "no comment" can go.

The excuses seem to be "they are new to the political world so have made some mistakes and you have to forgive them for that".


Bollocks to that. Illegal is illegal whether it was down to ignorance or not.
 
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