But why are they being housed in such villages? Surely this is more of an issue of poor planning by the government?
The Rise of the Right Wing In Ireland.
- Thread starter moses
- Start date
Stories like this everywhere. Some guy with 4 convictions in the Uk yesterday got arrested for assault for following a woman. Fuel for the right wing.
It's an absolute feck up. Like everything, it's privatised. The government is giving money to private individuals to house these people, and the cheapest spots are in tiny villages that have run-down nightclubs or hotels. It's a fecking shambles. But this issue as you say is not immigration, it's planning and thinking about services.
Where else could you put them though? We’re already desperately in need of more houses. So we can’t really allocate what little social housing we have to temporary residents. And the timeframes involved means we couldn’t accommodate them in custom built properties even if we wanted to. Other than some sort of dystopian tented communities anyway.
Where I think the government is dropping the ball is not engaging enough with local communities in advance and trying to reassure them that local health, education etc facilities will be ramped up to cope with the influx. That isn’t happening enough and the information vacuum is playing into the hands of right wing wankers and Facebook rumours.
But at the end of the day we’re going with a policy of trying to accommodate as many people in need as possible. That’s admirable but inevitably creates compromises like the need to take over hotels and tourist accommodation if we’re going to keep up our (relatively) open door policy and put roofs over the heads of the new arrivals.
I didn't say don't put them there, or anywhere, I just said do it as a strategy with all things considered, not what's the biggest profit margin for the person who got the gig. Maybe feck the profit in the bin and bring in a nurse to the GP office. Not rocket science. Done right it could be great for some villages and towns.
The government is not engaging at all, never mind enough.
also
"Census 2022 recorded over 166,000 vacant properties in the State, only a 9 per cent decrease from 2016 figures despite the scale of the housing crisis."
Basically, it's all about our housing issue.
Is that being reported honestly. Presumably they could manage 280 tourists. Maybe theres a bigger town nearby. Maybe theres multiple towns nearby.
You said they’re being put up in hotels like this because it’s the most profitable option. I disagree. I think it’s the only (and/or best) option. Hence I’m asking if you have any suggestions for alternative, better options?
Making sure they have adequate resources locally for health, education etc - although obviously critical - is separate to what we were discussing, which is the choice of accommodation.
It's hard to know, because of the back alley nature of it. A village near me had 75% of its tourist beds taken to house refugees, and it put half of the businesses in the village on the brink as they lost their summer income. It put huge pressure on the local school and doctor and it was all done between the property owner and the private individual paid to find housing. There is no way that sort of decision is ethical. Those small communities are fragile,
I meant small communities more than the actual building. These villages are decaying, visibly. So rent is cheap so the profit is bigger. That's the 'strategy'.
And of course, profit is the determining factor. What else would a private businessman getting paid to do this consider? In Enniscrone, they partitioned a disused nightclub in the centre of town. It's shocking on a few levels,
There is no strategy or guidleines, or transparency or discussion. There's loads of money being thrown at it, to private individuals. I know who some of them are, and the motivation is profit, believe me.
(There is not as much a shortage of houses as a shortage of available houses.)
no different to the Uk where a very small percentage of the monies spent on housing asylum seekers actuals actually reflects the actual costs. ive seen it at close hand with my involvement with refugee charities. rooms in hotels that were available at 30 quid a night are used to house 2 or 3 people at charges of around 150 a night each. and then contracts paying millions to refurbish said hotels once the asylum seekers have moved out. just insane profiteering. then you have Braverman the evil cow, saying shed love to say in these 150 night rooms. when it was her department signing these ridiculous deals. theres a reason a few groups of businessman started buying up / leasing many of these hotels before they were used by the home office.
but obviously the ire is directed at the people at the bottom and not the arch capitalists at the top.
but obviously the ire is directed at the people at the bottom and not the arch capitalists at the top.
I think you missed my point. It's not the where as much as the why and how.
Done right, for the right reasons with the right safeguards it could save a village, and done wrong, as it is, it could destroy the same village.
Exactly.
I know of a group who had 9 of these hotels. (all info on companies house).
One guy is operating over about 4 counties that I know of in the North West of Ireland.
Fair enough. I know next to nothing about what’s going on behind the scenes but am very familiar with Ireland’s capacity for corruption and profiteering. So you won’t get any arguments for me against the idea that cute hoors are using this crisis to line their pockets.
But I also know that finding a place for all these people to live must be extremely difficult. And I can see why there are lots of short term, less than ideal, fixes. And I think these short term fixes would be fuel to the fire for right wingers, even with the profit motive removed.
Well definitely less so, because in these villages, people are mostly animated by the already stressed medical and school facilities (you've heard my rants on recycling, so imagine that with crucial services) so if the profit element was removed and that excess was spent on upgrading the facilities then more than half of the local opposition and angst would be relieved.
The village I spoke of above knew nothing until 3 coaches arrived on a friday afternoon. Needless to say the lack of any dialogue or promise of facilities caused panic and anger, which was immediately fueled online by the usual suspects.
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I feel like that goes without saying and isn't necessarily an obstacle to pulling something that works together. I'd nearly accept it as a cost of doing business in ireland, at least temporarily. We clearly dont have the capacity to deal with the numbers coming and hotels seem one of the more obvious and easy things to convert at short notice.
I just think the entire subject is a bit of a distraction and the problems in housing, accomodation, large scale planning and providing public services have been clear and obvious for decades at this point. Immigration is just one more victim of bad governance.
We've taken in a lot more immigrants (especially from Ukraine) per capita than many other EU countries, though. I don't think there's anything wrong with asking "why", when there is so much stress already on so many of the critical services that they will immediately require? There is nothing wrong with controlled immigration and we've been a big benefactor of it both inwards and outwards over the years, there's certainly a problem with out-of-control migration which it does feel like we are currently dealing with, and just to clarify, it is all the government's doing, not these poor souls looking for a better life (though there are a few chancers amongst them, namely those coming from the NI border).
It's all so predictable, too, it's easy fuel for the far-right that we've already seen in loads of countries, the government had plenty of time to figure it out in advance but as usual they've made a complete hatchet job of things.
100% and that's even more reason it's not being discussed in any comprehensive way, its a great distraction.
The border in NI feels like bullshit and another distraction to me. Another way to divert attention from where the system is failing. Its the equivalent of the tories blaming the EU for their failures. Ireland is one of the most sparsely populated countries in the EU so per capita sounds like another distraction, another reframing of a failure to provide services.
Refugees move around, its not that they're entitled to (they are) its that you cant really stop them. You manage it by working your way through those coming through and sending the worst of them back where they started. Making the most of the benefits that the rest bring (which isn't hard).
I drove past the Coolock site at lunchtime today and noticed a huge volume of cars from other counties across Ireland parked and driving nearby. Way more than normal for the area.
I regularly travel on that road and yes you do see cars from all over the place from time to time as it's a major arterial route in North Dublin. However it looks to me like a lot of dodgy types have driven into the area for a bustup with the feds!
I regularly travel on that road and yes you do see cars from all over the place from time to time as it's a major arterial route in North Dublin. However it looks to me like a lot of dodgy types have driven into the area for a bustup with the feds!
Apparently 2 water cannon trucks have arrived at the site in Coolock. Hopefully some of these scumbags get blasted back to the stone age and this marks a turning point regarding the approach to the far right.
I drove past about an hour ago and their were 2 lorries there from the public order unit - the other day the "protesters" had a "trump was right about everything" banner - so easy to see who is funding their bullshit - Christian right fundamentalists.
Helicopter has just started to fly around nearby too....Clearly just idiots spoiling for a fight with Garda
Start blasting them with the water cannons and they won't be around much longer. Those things hurt.
In South Korea they added chili powder in with the water cannon...Garda should try that and give them a special Saturday Night Spicebag!
Great idea.
I'd be wary of being too gleeful about it. I wouldn't want to normalise it as a common tool for any and every protest.
I think its kind of an unfortunate step. Dont think enough is being done to make the case for asylum and refugees and while it would be nice to be rid of the facists at least publicly i dont see it resolving anything.
I think its kind of an unfortunate step. Dont think enough is being done to make the case for asylum and refugees and while it would be nice to be rid of the facists at least publicly i dont see it resolving anything.
We've heard the case for asylum and refugees made plenty of times from all angles. Unfortunately the scumbags are too stupid and hateful to take it on board. Bring on the water cannons.
Same here. It may well have the opposite effect of what the Joe Brolly's (or Green bin as I now call him) in the thread think it will.
I don't believe anyone can take this shit seriously who isn't just looking for any reason they can find to behave like a scumbag.
Might be difficult to open a "security" company with a string of prior convictions mind.
That prick can barely fecking speak and then he accused others of being on drugs. Spewing a bunch of lies about foreigners and the most obscene conspiracy theories but it's becoming absolute common place, the amount of times I've heard toe rags making these arguments is frightening. He should be arrested for inciting violence.
I'm glad this guy is on the case to protect irish children from all the predatory paedophiles that ONLY seem to have come here under the direction of the EU and Irish government. Hopefully soon children will be able to laugh and play in the streets without any fear like they could in the 50's to the 80's with guys like this and parish priest's to keep a close eye on them!
Come on now, he's a great honest hard working man, a real stand up member of society and he's definitely talking sense and speaking the truth. If you can't trust your friendly neighbourhood gangster who can you trust?
I didn’t realise all of the asylum seekers were being taken out of pedo prisons and being sent here. Can’t say I’m for that.
Fair play Dundalk
what a legend. Reminds me of the guy in the Jeffrey Donaldson videoThat’s deadly
It was great to see
Proud of a few lads down my way absolutely sucking the air out of this fellas bullshit balloon with nothing other than well reasoned logic too 