The links are not just links, they are fundamental to the growth of the right in Ireland. I know from personal experience Nick Griffin was grooming Irish right wingers in the late 90s.
The Rise of the Right Wing In Ireland.
- Thread starter moses
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That's essentially what I said.
"The news will tell ya there was only about 100 people. I beg to differ."
*proceeds to show about 100 people*
It looks like there was only around 10 to 15 people from Dublin at it. So that's something at least.
That Radio Genoa account is all over this stuff too.
That Radio Genoa account is all over this stuff too.
This is so interesting. Right wing nationalists and loyalists, shoulder to shoulder. United by being absolute dickheads.
Wait til the lads from the north return the favour and come down to a march in the south, I'm sure the lads from Coolock will welcome them with open arms.
Why are they calling these far right clowns republicans?
Because the far right wankers from the south call themselves Irish nationalists.
There seems to be a push to describe it as Loyalists and Republicans united, even in an article where they're also called an anti-immigration mob, when it was anything but in the traditional sense of the term Republican in Irish politics.
The Republicans were in the anti-fash counter-protest so nothing's really changed at all.
And patriots. And even sovereign citizens. It's just mimicry.
Also, the republican movement was always prone to schisms.
Connolly, and then Sinn Fein put an anti imperialist ideology into our nationalism so most of the ideologues from the Republican movement are left wing as a result.
Fascism needs the same iconography that Sinn Fein have become synonymous with, that's why the main thrust of the right's ire here is at the Shinners and not the government. The Shinners occupy much of the space that right wingers occupy in the rest of Europe.
That's not the main reason. SF have become the focus of the Right's ire because the people/areas from which they derive most of their support are those most disproportionately affected by high levels of immigration.
Agreed.
It's highly unusual for a protests against government policy to target the opposition, especially one that has never been in power. Except by orchestration.
So you think the anti Sinn Fein thrust of the protests, organised and fueled by the far right just coincidentally echos the election campaigns of the right wing parties?
Hmmm
So if you agree with this then surely you realise to grow, the right needs to attack Sinn Fein, which these protests are doing.
It is, but this isn't a 'normal' issue for want of a better term.
It's also my view that these protests against the various IPAS centres are also a proxy for growing discontent around immigration as a whole.
I'm just saying what I said which is that the people/areas from which Sinn Fein derive most of their support are those most disproportionately affected by high levels of immigration. That's the main factor and I think it's naive to suggest otherwise.
That bad actors like far-right nativist nutters take advantage of such situations and try to drive such feelings in a particular direction, i.e. towards supporting them, is to be expected unfortunately.
I think too many Irish people have had their heads in the sand over this stuff for far too long now.
It's so normal it's textbook. Predicted years ago. Even by me on here. The right gain silent support from the middle classes and footsoldiers from the working classes. Since always.
The existence of Sinn Fein hindered the growth of the right here so now they need to dismantle them. Thus they urge the protest to target them, not the government.
You haven't explained why the support for Sinn Fein turned to anger. There is no reason other than urged to do so by the new patriots.
What I mean is it isn't a normal issue like protesting against water charges, austerity, etc.
What?
The thread is literally called the Rise of the Right. That's the discussion we're having.
Mad that after the latest polls we are probably going to end up with the exact same government as 2016 
SF blew it.
SF blew it.
I know that. I was responding to your accurate claim that 'it's highly unusual for a protests against government policy to target the opposition, especially one that has never been in power,' by pointing out that sadly this isn't a normal or typical issue.
We are talking about right wing demos. Other countries have right wing demos. It is a thing. They never attack the opposition, always the government, even if that opposition is supported in the areas the protesters hail from.
Sinn Fein are being attacked by design by the NP and IFP in all of their literature, meetings and these protests.
Lots of Sinn Fein voters have affiliations that are quite transferable to the right, much more so than our largely centrist population. It's a tactic by the right, not an organic reflex by the protestors.
Aren’t you guys both making the same point? Sinn Fein and the far right are both trying to appeal to the same base (the underprivileged) That’s why Sinn Fein is being singled out for criticism by right wing agitators. They’re competing for the same votes.
I think Kinsella is saying the ire towards the Shinners is organic.
I think it's far from it. It's also why the establishment didn't react until actual violence occured as it suited them.
I still think both views can be valid. The far right are 100% targeting Sinn Féin in their rhetoric. But there’s bound to be an element of anger aimed their way from communities (who think they are) adversely affected by immigration, as a party that is widely perceived as being pro-immigration. Both things can be true at once.
Sinn Fein's status as the Opposition is relatively recent thing remember. It's not something that's deep rooted and was spurred largely by what happened after the banking crash in 2008.
The ‘normal’ issue I’m referring to by the way is immigration - the issue that’s providing the main fertiliser or fuel for this current rise of the Right.
That's to be expected, political parties do such things all the time. The difference here is that this issue is toxic and dangerous.
That's because much of its support is quite loosely coalesced around its raison d'etre - a United Ireland. Take that away and what do you have left?
I think it's probably both.
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I think it's both organic and manipulated.
And it's already moved the dial/shifted the Overton window now in any case.
How is disenchantment with an opposition party with no power over the situation organic?
Can you give me one other example of a party in opposition getting the backlash for policies they didn't put in place?
Well firstly you seem to be assuming that people always react rationally to such things.
But in respect of Sinn Fein specifically, have they been against such policies and have their own been substantially different? Take the recent referendums as another example, where was the opposition there…not just from Sinn Fein but from any of the mainstream parties?
Britain and many other European nations have always had a large right ring minority but Ireland has always been seen as one of the most liberal countries in Europe, at least in recent history. There must have been some catastrophic failures in economic and social policies for there to be a rise of the far right in Ireland.
I'm not assuming anything. I have been watching this closely for years and have seen the orchestrated attack from the right focus on Sinn Fein.
There are quite a few who went from pre COVID mask supporters of Sinn Fein to huge critics, again despite Sinn Fein not having anything to do with it. But they did find anti Vax anti mask soulmates on the right. I don't see that slide without very clever and highly active messaging from.the right.
I'm asking for one example to back something I don't believe to have ever been the case.
Saying it's irrational is not exactly scientific. If anything it proves more explanation is required.
Sinn Fein dropped off from the general election but improved on previous local elections. Everyone knows that Irish local elections vary hugely from patterns in general elections.
I passed through Sandy Row earlier and saw at least 4 or 5 shops/properties completely wrecked.
The police in England at least try to stop such destruction. No such luck here.
The police in England at least try to stop such destruction. No such luck here.
No reason we cant catch up with the people who did it. CCTV is pretty common nowadays. Shops are being looted in England too.
Weird comment. You've clearly not been watching the UK news. There's shops wrecked and burned out all over the place.
It’s not weird at all if you’re familiar with this place. And in the first instance, the numbers involved here seems to have been proportionally much smaller than those involved at the various locations in England.
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I meant the cops comment. They did feck all to stop looting across the water.
Yeah, but going by all the video footage on the news, they were dealing with very large numbers of people across many locations. The police here were dealing with a comparatively small group in one location, and are well used to dealing with civil disturbances given the usual NI guff over the decades.
They burnt the shop facing the rangers where I get my fresh coriander fs.
Need to pay £1.89 now from Eurospar for 3 sprigs in a bag.
That's awful Ian. People rarely understand the impact these idiots have on our lives.
Give peas a chance?