The RedCafe Boxing Thread

Revan said:
He did the right thing by stopping the fight. He was 1 point ahead in judges scorecards, but the momentum had totally changed and Lewis started dominating him, in addition to Vitali having struggle to see. If the fight had continued, he would have either get knocked out or Lewis in the end would have win on points, with Vitali probably having permanent eye damage.
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Lewis was utterly exhausted and getting outfought. He slumped on his stool from exhaustion but I seem to remember Vitali looking wobbly and hurt at the end of the round. His eye was a mess and it's hard to say how much longer he could have gone. I've never really been able to have a firm opinion on what I felt was going to happen there. It was really up in the air but rightfully stopped. It was unlucky for Vitali that he got such a gory gash because without it he may well have won that fight given how much Lewis underestimated him.
 
Oggmonster said:
What a ridiculously underwhelming fight. O'Sullivan is a terrible fighter he really is. Such an anti climax, I'd rather they just cancelled the whole thing and went with BJS a bit later.
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I just can't get remotely excited about this and I love me some GGG. It's such a shame how much Canelo has sidetracked GGG going from 3-4 fights a year to two and only got one Canelo fight which was a robbery. Hope GGG-Saunders is sometime over the summer.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
Lewis was utterly exhausted and getting outfought. He slumped on his stool from exhaustion but I seem to remember Vitali looking wobbly and hurt at the end of the round. His eye was a mess and it's hard to say how much longer he could have gone. I've never really been able to have a firm opinion on what I felt was going to happen there. It was really up in the air but rightfully stopped. It was unlucky for Vitali that he got such a gory gash because without it he may well have won that fight given how much Lewis underestimated him.
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Yeah, Lewis was past his best and seemed to have totally underestimated Vitali, so he wasn't good in the first few rounds but after he cut Vitali, he was really dominating him, to the point that I cannot see how Vitali could have won that match.

I think that Lewis would have won a rematch too, considering that he understood that he needs to prepare much better (it is what he said), but Vitali obviously would have had a good chance to win the rematch. But yeah, a fully concentrated Lewis was as close to unbeatable as it can get. Unless of course, the other boxer was some no-name like Rahman or McCall.
 
I don't think Lewis underestimated him, he was supposed to be fighting Kirk Johnson (and let's face it, how much training did Lewis need to wipe him out). Johnson pulled out with injury and Vitali was a late replacement.
 
Revan said:
Yeah, Lewis was past his best and seemed to have totally underestimated Vitali, so he wasn't good in the first few rounds but after he cut Vitali, he was really dominating him, to the point that I cannot see how Vitali could have won that match.

I think that Lewis would have won a rematch too, considering that he understood that he needs to prepare much better (it is what he said), but Vitali obviously would have had a good chance to win the rematch. But yeah, a fully concentrated Lewis was as close to unbeatable as it can get. Unless of course, the other boxer was some no-name like Rahman or McCall.
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Lewis never lost a big fight and was expert in re-matches. He had some complacency about him but if he had a point to prove he was safe to bet on. I believe he would have won a re-match too but on points in a hard fought contest. The only way he would lose is if he was completely on the other side of the hill which was possible.

Lewis was the last legitimately great Heavyweight. Hopefully Joshua can prove to be the next but time will tell.
 
The Bloody-Nine said:
I don't think Lewis underestimated him, he was supposed to be fighting Kirk Johnson (and let's face it, how much training did Lewis need to wipe him out). Johnson pulled out with injury and Vitali was a late replacement.
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At that time people were down on Vitali because he quit with an injury against Byrd. He didn't bring good form or reputation into the ring that night. Amazing in hindsight isn't it?
 
It's still amazing to me that he quit against a feather fisted, blown up cruiserweight in a fight he was winning. I watched Danny Williams KO a guy after he dislocated his shoulder.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
Lewis never lost a big fight and was expert in re-matches. He had some complacency about him but if he had a point to prove he was safe to bet on. I believe he would have won a re-match too but on points in a hard fought contest. The only way he would lose is if he was completely on the other side of the hill which was possible.

Lewis was the last legitimately great Heavyweight. Hopefully Joshua can prove to be the next but time will tell.
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Wlad is an ATG imo
 
The Bloody-Nine said:
It's still amazing to me that he quit against a feather fisted, blown up cruiserweight in a fight he was winning. I watched Danny Williams KO a guy after he dislocated his shoulder.
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Yeah really just a bizarre one. I remember Michael Katz used to be a staunch supporter of Byrd and ran with the angle he made Vitali quit and that Lewis was scared of Byrd. I liked Katz a lot as a writer and really respected his insight but that was hilarious to me.
 
It's a stain on Vitali's career that he never had any inclination to avenge that loss. Although the Klits had a habit of avenging each other's defeats.
 
Kazi said:
Wlad is an ATG imo
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Really? I think he was very, very good and obviously had a dominant period but there's three things I hold against him and they are as follows :-

1. He was never the undisputed champion. Sure, him and Vitali couldn't fight each other and it's perhaps slightly out of his hands (Finkel openly avoided him for Wilder) but it's still a fact and every other great heavyweight champion has been the only true heavyweight champion at some point.

2. He had multiple bad losses when he should have been dominating. Now one is fine, two I can tolerate (I do with Lewis but he also swiftly avenged one punch KO losses) but three?

3. He never beat a truly top fighter. No hall of famer, certainly no greats on his resume not even a guy that would be considered in the top 50 of all-time in the division.

He has great numbers, longevity and clearly was excellent in the ring and that's what gives him a case but I'd probably rank him behind Tyson who I also don't consider to be great.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
I just can't get remotely excited about this and I love me some GGG. It's such a shame how much Canelo has sidetracked GGG going from 3-4 fights a year to two and only got one Canelo fight which was a robbery. Hope GGG-Saunders is sometime over the summer.
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Yeah agreed it’s such an anti climax. He may go easy on spike for a few years but it’s done whenever he wants really. Such a shame
 
The Hurd-Lara fight was really good. Lara's the much better boxer but Hurd honestly looked to be at least two weight classes bigger than him. It's amazing how he gets down to 154.

I like DeGale a lot but realistically he'll get wrecked by Uzcategui if the IBF mandates that be next. He'd also lose pretty easily to Ramirez and Benavidez. He should focus on Groves-Smith winner and Eubank because he'll make more money there.
 
Think De Gale is past it now, he looked sharp 2-3 years ago but I think the injuries and rushing back too quickly have hampered him. He was never one to show great consistency in fights, he would often switch off and that seems to have caught up with him now and his lack of stamina is still there. He should target the winner of Smith v Groves, big money fight for him or if he wants to go out with a win maybe target a fight against Eubank Jr, it's winnable, a good fight and plenty of money involved.

Have to feel sorry for GGG, finally gets his big fight of his career that he's been waiting for, wins, gets awarded as a draw, agrees to a re-match over 9 months later despite him being a year older (possibly past it, like Golden Boy hope), trains like mad then finds out the fighter tested positive for PEDs and was probably on them in the first fight now he somehow has to motivate himself and looked good against someone like Spike Sullivan. I did hear rumours that he turned down a fight against Andrade however, which would have been a tough fight for him and cemented his legacy further. KO'ing Spike does nothing for him.
 
SambaBoy said:
Think De Gale is past it now, he looked sharp 2-3 years ago but I think the injuries and rushing back too quickly have hampered him. He was never one to show great consistency in fights, he would often switch off and that seems to have caught up with him now and his lack of stamina is still there. He should target the winner of Smith v Groves, big money fight for him or if he wants to go out with a win maybe target a fight against Eubank Jr, it's winnable, a good fight and plenty of money involved.

Have to feel sorry for GGG, finally gets his big fight of his career that he's been waiting for, wins, gets awarded as a draw, agrees to a re-match over 9 months later despite him being a year older (possibly past it, like Golden Boy hope), trains like mad then finds out the fighter tested positive for PEDs and was probably on them in the first fight now he somehow has to motivate himself and looked good against someone like Spike Sullivan. I did hear rumours that he turned down a fight against Andrade however, which would have been a tough fight for him and cemented his legacy further. KO'ing Spike does nothing for him.
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I agree. I really get a sour taste from Canelo after this.

I'm hearing now the opponent is likely to be Vanes Martirosyan which is still a huge letdown. I really hope he gets Saunders next and I'm caught in two minds if I want him to fight Canelo again. I think he's going to need an official win over a fighter of Canelo's stature (and let's face it Canelo will enter the hall of fame) and I'd love to see him punish Canelo but I don't know if Canelo deserves the shot and the fight will likely be rigged so that GGG really has no chance of a fair shake.
 
El General 1994 said:
Charlo (the LMW one) beats Hurd IMHO.
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It's a hard fight to call. Charlo has shown vulnerabilities with boxers (Jackson was outboxing him and I think Vanes did enough to deserve the win) but Hurd is coming to knock him out. I think that plays into Charlo's hands but I get the impression Charlo might not have the heart to take it. His whole fake tough guy gangsta persona rubs me the wrong way and is almost like he's hiding something.

Either way sign me up for that fight. Next.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
Sounds like Hearn has offered Wilder a flat fee of $12.5m and a generous re-match clause.
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That's a pretty shit offer to be honest. HE should be getting way more or at least a cut of the PPV. It's an offer to make Hearn look keen when really he doesn't want the fight yet I guess.



Fury coming back then it seems...believe it when he steps in the ring personally.
 
Oggmonster said:
That's a pretty shit offer to be honest. HE should be getting way more or at least a cut of the PPV. It's an offer to make Hearn look keen when really he doesn't want the fight yet I guess.



Fury coming back then it seems...believe it when he steps in the ring personally.
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Yeah, anything less than what they offered to Parker is not a serious offer IMO, and is just saving face. They gave to Parker 35% of the purse, they should give to Wilder 40% of the purse, and 60% of the rematch in case he wins this match. Otherwise, they clearly show that they don't want the fight to happen.
 
Oggmonster said:
That's a pretty shit offer to be honest. HE should be getting way more or at least a cut of the PPV. It's an offer to make Hearn look keen when really he doesn't want the fight yet I guess.
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i definitely think AJ wants the fight next, he's clearly targeted every belt and wants to unify the division asap imo the more he holds the more likely he could be stripped in time so if the oportunity is there to unify now i'm certain he wants it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Eddie prefers to get dylian in with wilder first though. If wilder wins it he's then a bigger draw over here and the AJ fight does even bigger numbers, if dylian wins it however the inevitable AJ rematch is absolutely huge with Hearn sat in the middle making the fight entirely on his own terms.


Oggmonster said:
Fury coming back then it seems...believe it when he steps in the ring personally.
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me too. hopefully he's heads right and its a serious comeback, not just a desperate money/glory grab. he'd ideally need 2-3 tune ups before AJ imo anything less than that and he won't bring his A game. Maybe we'll finally see the Haye fight, would be massive over here and the perfect set up for both fighters (tho i've just as many reservations about Haye atm, lets see how he does next month)
 
Revan said:
Yeah, anything less than what they offered to Parker is not a serious offer IMO, and is just saving face. They gave to Parker 35% of the purse, they should give to Wilder 40% of the purse, and 60% of the rematch in case he wins this match. Otherwise, they clearly show that they don't want the fight to happen.
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Nah, i think the same as Parker would be fair, especially considering AJ is now bringing an extra belt to the table. He holds all the cards tbh.
 
Utdstar01 said:
Nah, i think the same as Parker would be fair, especially considering AJ is now bringing an extra belt to the table. He holds all the cards tbh.
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That's just it. In terms of global appeal and standing then Joshua is much the bigger fish.
Joshua's last 3 fights were in front of a crowd of 243k. Wilders combined total? 42k.
 
ivaldo said:
That's just it. In terms of global appeal and standing then Joshua is much the bigger fish.
Joshua's last 3 fights were in front of a crowd of 243k. Wilders combined total? 42k.
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Joshua's last 3 fights have been horrible viewing just becauae he has lot of very gulliable fans who pay to watch him fight nobodies does not make him a bigger fish
 
Red_Aaron said:
i definitely think AJ wants the fight next, he's clearly targeted every belt and wants to unify the division asap imo the more he holds the more likely he could be stripped in time so if the oportunity is there to unify now i'm certain he wants it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Eddie prefers to get dylian in with wilder first though. If wilder wins it he's then a bigger draw over here and the AJ fight does even bigger numbers, if dylian wins it however the inevitable AJ rematch is absolutely huge with Hearn sat in the middle making the fight entirely on his own terms.
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Joshua would probably happily fight him. I don't think he minds who he fights. I don't think Hearn wants the fight yet though, hence the low ball offer. Look interested but he's really not.

Wilder brings in more viewers than Parker, and it's a unification fight. He should get more. It shouldn't be 50/50 but he gets more than what Hearn is offering now.
 
lsd said:
Joshua's last 3 fights have been horrible viewing just becauae he has lot of very gulliable fans who pay to watch him fight nobodies does not make him a bigger fish
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Erm what? One of his last 3 fights was Wladimir Klitschko...definitely not a nobody and it definitely wasn't horrible viewing.
 
lsd said:
Joshua's last 3 fights have been horrible viewing just becauae he has lot of very gulliable fans who pay to watch him fight nobodies does not make him a bigger fish
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Yeah, that Klitschko guy was a total nobody. Never heard about him since then.
 
This was clearly always going to happen. Hearn said in the press conference after the Parker fight that they would make Wilder a decent offer but they wouldn't over-pay him like they have been doing recently to make fights.

I kind of agree with him in some respects... Joshua has grafted, won himself three of the belts and become the biggest draw in the heavyweight division. Wilder earnt $1.5m for his last fight. He'd likely earn 10 times that for fighting Joshua even if he only got 20%... the earning power is all with Joshua.
 
lsd said:
The 40yo who hadn't fought in three years?
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He fought a year and a half earlier and he’s definitely not a nobody.

If you made a mistake by saying Joshua last 3 fights are nobodies just hold your hands up it’s fair enough...no need to dig deeper and double down on Wlad being a nobody!
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
That was heart stopping edge of the seat drama indeed. One of the most enjoyable fights of recent years and probably the greatest Heavyweight fight since the 90's.
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Vlad was as good as I ever remember him being and AJ climbing off the canvas to land that monster uppercut - woof. I might go rewatch it
 
Oggmonster said:
He fought a year and a half earlier and he’s definitely not a nobody.

If you made a mistake by saying Joshua last 3 fights are nobodies just hold your hands up it’s fair enough...no need to dig deeper and double down on Wlad being a nobody!
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Ok so his last two fights then ..the point stands he isn't the bigger fish because he has so many idiot fans who pay crazy money to watch him take non fights
 
lsd said:
Ok so his last two fights then ..the point stands he isn't the bigger fish because he has so many idiot fans who pay crazy money to watch him take non fights
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How's Parker a "non fight"? He was an undefeated titleholder and ranked #3 in the division by all publications. He also showed himself to be fairly good too.
 
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